F-4E Phantom II Development Update and Release Delay Announcement

[JG11Preusse]

vor 37 Minuten schrieb kega76:

Agree. It’s stretching my understanding of the concept. Bought the double pack so my kid could have one for Christmas, now his birthday is coming up… I’m out of sync. Next time a software company asks me to invest in their business I’ll think twice about the matter. I thought better of Heatblur, than the Razbam show, but I was wrong. Old saying: don’t sell the fur before you’ve shot the bear. They did indeed sell the fur, and the bear ran away.

 

Also agree.

If they want to ask/search for an investor or people who invest them, no problem.

Doing this the way they do, is not what i accept. 

I was really calm since today and thought by myself : "just wait, it will arrive"

Next time for sure i will not pay 7 months in advance because some Heatblur announcements made and the sad thing for other developers is, that i also will not do it anymore for them, thank Heatblur.

I never expected a release without any bugs more or less problematic, because i was sure they will get fixed time by time and i have time, even when i am allready get 59 years old in june

F.e. : i bought Baldurs Gate 3 as an early access for arround the same price you can buy it now.

But they delivered an episode where you can play and test the game very fast and everyone was informed, that the final release will be much much more later.

For my personal opinion, Heatblur does everything to destroy any trust in their business.

Dont want to get ironic (or maybe yes), but i dont belive that you and i get what we payed 7 month ago the next 4 or more month. Excuses will pave the path ;

Making me nerfed is not easy, but they managed it.

Hals- und Beinbruch and greetings to you all from a retired Bundeswehr Pilot

Andi

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2024 by JG11Preusse

[Cab]

Pre-purchase has proven to not be for everyone. If delays are going to cause any amount of stress  , the answer is to just wait until the day prior to release. Same price, no stress.  

[Q3ark]

15 minutes ago, JG11Preusse said:

Also agree.

If they want to ask/search for an investor or people who invest them, no problem.

Doing this the way they do, is not what i accept. 

If these delays annoy you so much don’t pre order software that doesn’t have a set release date. Nobody forced you into anything and nobody has stolen your money. If you’re so upset then ask for a refund and forget all about it. 

[Blindflug]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Q3ark:

If these delays annoy you so much don’t pre order software that doesn’t have a set release date. Nobody forced you into anything and nobody has stolen your money. If you’re so upset then ask for a refund and forget all about it. 

Don‘t worry, Ungeduld (impatience) is a skill most germans (me included) mastered to perfection

Nonetheless I think Heatblur will deliver a great product as promised, no matter when

[Viper33]

59 minutes ago, Panny said:

You're not investing in their business you're pre-ordering a product? They didn't ask you either - you as a consumer opted into it. 

There's multiple screenshots from HB reiterating the deadline to be no later than 31/05 after explaining in good detail why they had to push it back. I'm sure we'll all be very pleased with the product as and when it comes.

 

On a personal note, and not excusing anything, but I have yet to know of a 3rd party flight sim product of any platform that wasn't delayed in some capacity unless they withheld the release date and dropped it on people's laps out of nowhere. In my teen years I would stupidly scrape around the forums nearly every day to see if there was a glimmer of an update or some piece of information which meant I would daily wait for a product that was 3-4 years out and get annoyed about it for no reason. Including other 3rd party products for FSX/P3D that in the end after 4 years of development never actually released in the end; which sucked because I dumped so much hype into it. I eventually realised that I was more interested in having the toy rather than playing with what I have already. There's tons of stuff in DCS already and I absolutely reject the notion that anyone has completed DCS and extracted all possible fun gameplay from it, in which the only way to breathe new life into it is with another plane. It's best to try and put it to the back of your head and enjoy what DCS offers as is.

I would also recommend staying away from all the online drama stuff. There's been a big hyping up from some negative people in the DCS community. I assure you many of these characters spend far more time on forums and Discords complaining about the game rather than actually playing the game itself. If you hang around a lot of these negative communities, you could end up focussing on really negative stuff(at the expense of everything else) and tarnishing your own experience of just enjoying the game. I made that mistake a few years ago, and it was only when I got out of these complaining communities I stopped caring about release, or every comment a dev or community manager made and engaging in festering conspiracies, and shockingly I started playing DCS more and experimenting with the fun stuff(and would you believe it - the game is a lot more fun now). DCS as a game feels a lot more pleasant to me to play now. No point complaining too much about things we can't control, and for what we can control make the best of it. 

TLDR?

[ivo]

47 minutes ago, JG11Preusse said:

Anche d'accordo.

Se vogliono chiedere/cercare un investitore o persone che li investono, nessun problema.

Fare questo nel modo in cui lo fanno, non è quello che accetto. 

Ero davvero tranquillo da oggi e ho pensato tra me : "aspetta, arriverà"

La prossima volta di sicuro non pagherò 7 mesi in anticipo perché sono stati fatti alcuni annunci di Heatblur e la cosa triste per gli altri sviluppatori è che anch'io non lo farò più per loro, grazie Heatblur.

Non mi sarei mai aspettato un rilascio senza bug più o meno problematici, perché ero sicuro che verranno risolti di volta in volta e ho tempo, anche quando a giugno compirò già 59 anni

Fe: ho acquistato Baldurs Gate 3 come accesso anticipato per circa lo stesso prezzo a cui puoi acquistarlo adesso.

Ma hanno consegnato un episodio in cui è possibile giocare e testare il gioco molto velocemente e tutti sono stati informati che la versione finale sarà molto più tardiva.

Per la mia opinione personale, Heatblur fa di tutto per distruggere ogni fiducia nella propria attività.

Non voglio essere ironico (o forse sì), ma non credo che tu e io riceveremo quello che abbiamo pagato 7 mesi fa nei prossimi 4 o più mesi. Le scuse apriranno la strada;

Rendermi nerfato non è facile, ma ci sono riusciti.

Hals- und Beinbruch e saluti a tutti da un pilota della Bundeswehr in pensione

E io

 

 

 

 

 

GREAT

33 minutes ago, Cab said:

Il preacquisto ha dimostrato di non essere adatto a tutti. Se i ritardi causano un certo stress   , la risposta è semplicemente aspettare fino al giorno prima del rilascio. Stesso prezzo, niente stress.  

Surely this is the last time if it doesn't come out by May I'll ask for a refund hoping it won't cause any problems, I'll keep you updated

[Fromthedeep]

38 minutes ago, Q3ark said:

If these delays annoy you so much don’t pre order software that doesn’t have a set release date. Nobody forced you into anything and nobody has stolen your money. If you’re so upset then ask for a refund and forget all about it. 

There was. First it was winter 2023/24, then it was March 31 and now it's May 31. Whether or not it's actually going to get released by then is not known yet.

[Cab]

3 minutes ago, Fromthedeep said:

There was. First it was winter 2023/24, then it was March 31 and now it's May 31. Whether or not it's actually going to get released by then is not known yet.

To be fair, they were clear about using March 31st as the end of winter, rather than March 21. Inaccurate, but a small difference in the overall picture.

[JG11Preusse]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Fromthedeep:

There was. First it was winter 2023/24, then it was March 31 and now it's May 31. Whether or not it's actually going to get released by then is not known yet.

This is what fanboys dont like to hear

They dont care about facts, they event dont investigate was maybe was said or written, they just want to make internet "blablabla".

They believe what they want, facts will get ignored if them dont fit to their own opinion.

Politics is not our theme here, but you can compare that a bit

 

[BIGNEWY]

please keep the feedback constructive, lets not start calling people names. 

thank you

[Cab]

10 minutes ago, JG11Preusse said:

This is what fanboys dont like to hear

They dont care about facts, they event dont investigate was maybe was said or written, they just want to make internet "blablabla".

They believe what they want, facts will get ignored if them dont fit to their own opinion.

Politics is not our theme here, but you can compare that a bit

 

In order to keep this constructive, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the interpretation of the published facts.

In the meantime, like I posted above, pre-purchase is obviously not for everyone.

[JG11Preusse]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb Cab:

In order to keep this constructive, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the interpretation of the published facts.

In the meantime, like I posted above, pre-purchase is obviously not for everyone.

My 5 cents .... pre-purchase can be something good, f.e. when it helps a company to stay alive to finish their task.

 

[Cab]

20 minutes ago, JG11Preusse said:

My 5 cents .... pre-purchase can be something good, f.e. when it helps a company to stay alive to finish their task.

 

[JG11Preusse]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Cab:

I just opened a Jever Pilsener just now to say "chears" to you 

[Punkmonkey22]

5 hours ago, Viper33 said:

TLDR?

TLDR is be patient, enjoy the modules you have instead of whinging like petulant children because you didn't have the self control to avoid preordering.

The plane will release.

Nobody made you buy it early.

[Stackup]

10 minutes ago, Punkmonkey22 said:

enjoy the modules you have instead of whinging like petulant children

You must be new here...

[Tiger-II]

The problem with the current delay is *what* and *how* it caused the delay. I've already said my piece about their technical choices, but the fact is they developed this thing for years already, Jester 2.0 is supposed to be running on this new tech for years already, but only 3 months ago this technology suddenly, unexpectedly, catastrophically, and unfixably blew up on a tester computer after years of development and the teaser demo flight back in December, causing the 5+ month delay while they try and fix it?

I just simply do not believe it.

They never actually detailed the way and the why of the failure. All they said was some weird "it was a combo of graphics card and driver version". Well...that applies to all software. How to say something while saying nothing.

What hardware and software combo? GeForce 960 with 10-year-old drivers? Kick that junk to the kerb already!

Edited May 4, 2024 by Tiger-II

[Fromthedeep]

4 hours ago, Tiger-II said:

The problem with the current delay is *what* and *how* it caused the delay. I've already said my piece about their technical choices, but the fact is they developed this thing for years already, Jester 2.0 is supposed to be running on this new tech for years already, but only 3 months ago this technology suddenly, unexpectedly, catastrophically, and unfixably blew up on a tester computer after years of development and the teaser demo flight back in December, causing the 5+ month delay while they try and fix it?

I just simply do not believe it.

They never actually detailed the way and the why of the failure. All they said was some weird "it was a combo of graphics card and driver version". Well...that applies to all software. How to say something while saying nothing.

What hardware and software combo? GeForce 960 with 10-year-old drivers? Kick that junk to the kerb already!

 

What makes it also really weird is that according to them, the HBUI bug was already fixed by the time they delayed it. So it's either being held back for some reason, there was feature creep or something else is also broken.

 

I just don't understand why they would commit to another hard date.

[felixx75]

5 hours ago, Tiger-II said:

The problem with the current delay is *what* and *how* it caused the delay. I've already said my piece about their technical choices, but the fact is they developed this thing for years already, Jester 2.0 is supposed to be running on this new tech for years already, but only 3 months ago this technology suddenly, unexpectedly, catastrophically, and unfixably blew up on a tester computer after years of development and the teaser demo flight back in December, causing the 5+ month delay while they try and fix it?

I just simply do not believe it.

They never actually detailed the way and the why of the failure. All they said was some weird "it was a combo of graphics card and driver version". Well...that applies to all software. How to say something while saying nothing.

What hardware and software combo? GeForce 960 with 10-year-old drivers? Kick that junk to the kerb already!

 

In other words, you are accusing Heatblur of lying to us. Why on earth would Heatblur do that. It's in their interest to release the module as soon as possible.

But to be honest, I don't quite understand all the fuss about it. The module is late, annoying, but that's all. There are people here who act as if the world is coming to an end. Very childish behavior. Nobody is negatively affected in any way because a simulated airplane in a game is delayed.

But of course you can get artificially upset and produce drama just because you can.

 

 

[Basco1]

18 hours ago, Cab said:

Pre-purchase has proven to not be for everyone. If delays are going to cause any amount of stress  , the answer is to just wait until the day prior to release. Same price, no stress.  

I totally agree.....But why anyone would 'stress' over this is beyond me....As a retired Fireman maybe I am wired differently to most,nothing these days phases me,least of all waiting for a favourite module to be released,lol.....It's a computer game guys,it ain't for real,wake up and smell the coffee,go for a bike ride,go fishing,take your Mrs out to dinner but most of all get out there and have fun 

[unknown]

7 hours ago, Tiger-II said:

...All they said was some weird "it was a combo of graphics card and driver version". Well...that applies to all software. How to say something while saying nothing.

What hardware and software combo? GeForce 960 with 10-year-old drivers? Kick that junk to the kerb already!

Nope, that was just one point.

The core issue causing this turned out to be an incredibly complex, multi-layered onion involving both the Windows GPU scheduler as well as GPU process scheduling in DCS itself, mixed in with some deep, hardware level connections across various technologies, such as HAGS, resizable bar, and even specific GPU drivers.

Considering that HAGS and resizable bar was involved in the problem i think it is safe to say that 10 year old "junk" was not the problem.

2 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

What makes it also really weird is that according to them, the HBUI bug was already fixed by the time they delayed it.

Do you have a link for that statement? As i understood it back in the day (no native english speaker here so i could possibly misunderstood it) they knew what the problem was, how they could fix it but had to delay the EA release because they had no time left for actually coding the new HBUI again and test it. 

Edited May 4, 2024 by unknown

[Fromthedeep]

40 minutes ago, unknown said:

Do you have a link for that statement? As i understood it back in the day (no native english speaker here so i could possibly misunderstood it) they knew what the problem was, how they could fix it but had to delay the EA release because they had no time left for actually coding the new HBUI again and test it. 

Their 'delays and silence' update stated that a release in March wasn't impossible at all, they just decided against it in to prevent any new issues that would crop up making the delay necessary and to give themselves more time for final polishing.

 

Quote

We are aiming for an April release, and are working with our partners to get the Phantom to you all as soon as possible. While we have a lot of confidence in our product and we believe very strongly that we would be able to still ship inside of March, we would be risking that any minor miss-step or development element going awry will cause the timeline to slip.

If the HBUI hadn't already been fixed and solved by then, a March release would have been totally impossible and nonsensical to even think about. They also mentioned that some parts of the team were against the delay, again, the delay would have been absolutely mandatory and not even up for discussion if the HBUI issue hadn't been fixed, it is a game breaking issue after all.

 

Quote

and even though the team was somewhat split on actually being for or against extending our timeline, we think that even making this late decision, frustrating as it is, is for the best.

 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I also sing House of the Rising Sun when I pre-order something.

Mothers, tell your children.. not to dooooo what I have doooone.

[=475FG= Dawger]

There should be a mental fitness test prior to purchase for pre-order.

Do people really not know themselves well enough to be able to predict the self induced anguish any perceived or real delay in release will cause them?

Consider pre-order money just as you would cash thrown out the window of a moving car and all your mental torment will cease. 

[G.J.S]

7 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

There should be a mental fitness test prior to purchase for pre-order.

Just . . . . YES ! !