DCS - To Run As Administrator, or not?

[Dangerzone]

Do you run DCS as administrator, or not? 

Just wondering what the advantages/disadvantages are, and what's the better/correct option, and why?

I switched to "As Administrator" some time ago. I honestly forget why now. I do run Voice Attack, VAICOM, Tacview, SRS, and ScratchPad in WMR VR with OpenXR - and I think it was originally to solve an issue with one of those, but I honestly can't remember and don't know if it's a requirement anymore. 

[Rudel_chw]

33 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

Do you run DCS as administrator, or not? 

 

Honestly, my first thought was "of course not!" ... but when I went to take a screengrab I was shocked to see that ... yes, I do run it as admin   ... honestly, don't know why I do ... probably was trying to fix an issue so long ago that now I can't remember what it was 

 

 

I believe that DCS should run just fine as a regular user, I will test it when I have some more free time.

[Exorcet]

I run DCS normally, non Admin. I used have it installed in Program Files but that caused an issue with not receiving all parts of an update. I've moved it to its own folder (and drive) since then.

[SharpeXB]

I’ve been instructed in the past not to run as Administrator. 

 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I've been able to prevent/fix problems by running programmes in admin mode. Here on the forum I've seen posts from people recommending both normal and admin-mode. So I'd say try either but then if you run into (weird) problems, try the other as first step in your troubleshooting process.

*edit*
After reading the thread linked above, it's probably best to try non-admin first: Flappie comes across as someone who knows what he's talking about.
I have been running DCS for years as admin and I just turned it off.

Edited April 17 by Raven (Elysian Angel)

[Dangerzone]

Locked files in the saved games directory. I guess that happens if DCS is run 'in Admin' mode, but things liek voiceattack/vaicom aren't. 

For me - I had Skatezilla's launcher running 'as administrator' - so everything else followed suit. It sounds like it's no longer needed (or desired) anymore, so I might look at removing the 'run as administrator' from Skatezilla's launcher and see how things go - considering no one has replied here with a definitive answer as to why it is needed now.

[sthompson]

10 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Locked files in the saved games directory. I guess that happens if DCS is run 'in Admin' mode, but things liek voiceattack/vaicom aren't. 

For me - I had Skatezilla's launcher running 'as administrator' - so everything else followed suit. It sounds like it's no longer needed (or desired) anymore, so I might look at removing the 'run as administrator' from Skatezilla's launcher and see how things go - considering no one has replied here with a definitive answer as to why it is needed now.

If you run DCS in admin mode then it will create and reference files in the admin account's "saved games" folder, which usually is different from the saved games folder of an ordinary user. So if you switch from one to the other you may need to copy files accordingly. 

For years I've run DCS as an ordinary user with no problems. I also run VoiceAttack / VAICOM as an ordinary user. For that to work, VoiceAttack / VAICOM needs permissions to edit DCS files and also VoiceAttack/VAICOM files. If those programs are installed in the usual "Program Files" locations then you might need to adjust permissions since typically an ordinary user does not have permissions to modify files in the Program Files directory tree. Installing them in a different location where you as an ordinary user have permissions to modify, create, or delete files will solve the problem at some risk of security. But that's still better than giving these programs full admin rights in terms of security. You really don't want a trojan inadvertently inserted into DCS to start modifying your critical windows files, for example.

[Dangerzone]

9 hours ago, sthompson said:

If you run DCS in admin mode then it will create and reference files in the admin account's "saved games" folder, which usually is different from the saved games folder of an ordinary user. So if you switch from one to the other you may need to copy files accordingly. 

Just to let you know, this isn't the case. Mine is in my c:\users\<myname>\saved games folder, even when running in Admin mode.

Thank you for the information regarding VoiceAttack / VAICOM. I tend to try avoiding installing games and game related installs in program files anyway, so it sounds like I'm already doing best practice. I haven't had the chance to test with 'run as administrator' turned off, but hopefully will get a chance this weekend. 

Security was my #1 consideration TBH - as not only DCS is running in admin, but I need discord (for PTT) to be admin when DCS is focused, and that's not ideal at all. 

The trend here certainly seems to be "Run as administrator" is not required - so that's definitely promising.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[QuiGon]

I don't run DCS in admin mode as I don't see any reason to do so.

[Dangerzone]

OK - tried running "not as administrator" this weekend and didn't get far. VR image is flipped upside down. (Mirror on monitor appears to be the right way up). 

From what I can tell, this may be related to VR Necksafer, so this maybe the reason I ended up finding I needed to run as admin mode in order for things to work properly. 

[draconus]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:53 AM, Dangerzone said:

Security was my #1 consideration TBH - as not only DCS is running in admin, but I need discord (for PTT) to be admin when DCS is focused, and that's not ideal at all.

As an admin you'll have to add proper rights only to the files and folders you have troubles with for the user account and then try again running on user account. Might be a lot of hussle if everything was installed with admin rights in the first place.

I personally run on account with admin rights but DCS is not running "as administrator".

[Blackjack_UK]

32 minutes ago, draconus said:

...

I personally run on account with admin rights but DCS is not running "as administrator".

That's my approach as well. Seems to give the best of both worlds. (Plus being firewalled and AV'd up to the gills of course)

[sthompson]

7 hours ago, draconus said:

I personally run on account with admin rights but DCS is not running "as administrator".

I don't understand this. What's the difference? I'm pretty sure that if you start DCS from an administrator account then DCS inherits those rights exactly as if it were running "as administrator." Perhaps you could add some detail to your explanation.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, sthompson said:

I don't understand this. What's the difference? I'm pretty sure that if you start DCS from an administrator account then DCS inherits those rights exactly as if it were running "as administrator." Perhaps you could add some detail to your explanation.

I use standard UAC function of Windows. So my account has administator rights but acts as a standard user unless some app/system changes are needed. "Run as administator" setting otoh starts the app with full admin rights from the get go.

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/user-account-control-windows-10/

[Raisuli]

2 hours ago, sthompson said:

I don't understand this. What's the difference? I'm pretty sure that if you start DCS from an administrator account then DCS inherits those rights exactly as if it were running "as administrator." Perhaps you could add some detail to your explanation.

The difference is UAC, which is the last line of defense against apps doing things you don't want when your local account is admin.  Before they got that dialed in malware gleefully did whatever it wanted with no input from the user.

Running anything as admin is generally a bad idea, but so is turning off your virus scanner and I see people suggest that all the time.  Can't get your key in the lock?  Just leave the whole house unlocked.  What could possibly go wrong?

[Dragon1-1]

In case of admin, there's a very specific reason why you might need to run a program with admin rights: in pre-UAC days, shoddily written or hacky software (including many games) would often demand unconstrained access to all of the computer's resources, and would barf if such access was not provided. Games in particular would sometimes exploit outright bugs in the OS in order to squeeze a bit more performance out of the system. And of course, a programmer working on a machine with admin access could simply not conceive that anyone could be trying to run the program without it. That's why the introduction of UAC resulted in much wailing and gnashing of teeth from such programmers and from the users of their programs (and contributed to Vista's bad reputation).

Turning off your virus scanner is typically suggested by people who don't know exceptions exist, for the exact purpose of letting a trusted program do its thing without compromising your protection. DCS does occasionally require doing just that.

[Dangerzone]

Thanks all. It seems from my tests DCS will run fine without 'Administrator' except for one issue I have - and that is the VR window upside down in my headset, but OK on the desktop. 

I think this may be an issue with XR Neck Safer - and I recall now that I may have enabled 'run as administrator' way back when installing that to get it to work correctly. If I could find a solution to why it works correctly when running DCS 'as administrator', but flips inverted when I don't run it as administrator, I could stop running DCS as administrator completely. 

Edited April 23 by Dangerzone

[Raisuli]

14 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

 

Turning off your virus scanner is typically suggested by people who don't know exceptions exist, for the exact purpose of letting a trusted program do its thing without compromising your protection. DCS does occasionally require doing just that.

Trusted programs...like Solar Winds?  I guess I've been in this business for too long, but I don't trust any program.  Too many places in the ecosystem for someone to sneak in and make changes, and far too many sites hosting malware do so without the owner's knowledge. 

If something in DCS tweaks my virus scanner it doesn't get used until that's resolved, but it says something about society when games are so important to people they'll take whatever chance necessary to play them.  Neil Postman would be impressed how far we've gone since he wrote 'Amusing Ourselves to Death'.

An app so poorly written that it needs to run as admin shouldn't be run at all, especially a game.  Install?  Sure.  Run?  Forget it.  I'll install with my virus scanner set to kill, though, which of course implies that I trust my virus scanner.  There has to be a line in the sand somewhere...but that doesn't stop me from checking on that now and then, too...

Our developers write software in admin mode with no firewalls and no limits, then they run into me.  My boss also runs development so sometimes I lose, but not very often.

 

[draconus]

6 minutes ago, Raisuli said:

I trust my virus scanner

Good, but do you also understand what it means when it tells you "suspicious" or "potentially dangerous"? False positive is a real thing because AV software is just an app, a tool - make sure you understand how it works.

[Maverick87Shaka]

On 4/17/2024 at 2:28 AM, Dangerzone said:

Do you run DCS as administrator, or not? 

Just wondering what the advantages/disadvantages are, and what's the better/correct option, and why?

I switched to "As Administrator" some time ago. I honestly forget why now. I do run Voice Attack, VAICOM, Tacview, SRS, and ScratchPad in WMR VR with OpenXR - and I think it was originally to solve an issue with one of those, but I honestly can't remember and don't know if it's a requirement anymore. 

none of that tools should require to runs as administrator if correctly configured.
So basically, do not run DCS as administrator is the best option
The real problems occurs when, if you erroneously, for a test, or any reason run even just one time the programs as Administrator, you may corrupt the folders permission, so
null  from that time on, you may need to run as administrator or something can goes wrong in next run.

But generally, no, it's not required

 

[oldcrusty]

2 hours ago, Raisuli said:

Trusted programs...like Solar Winds?  I guess I've been in this business for too long, but I don't trust any program.  Too many places in the ecosystem for someone to sneak in and make changes, and far too many sites hosting malware do so without the owner's knowledge. 

If something in DCS tweaks my virus scanner it doesn't get used until that's resolved, but it says something about society when games are so important to people they'll take whatever chance necessary to play them.  Neil Postman would be impressed how far we've gone since he wrote 'Amusing Ourselves to Death'.

An app so poorly written that it needs to run as admin shouldn't be run at all, especially a game.  Install?  Sure.  Run?  Forget it.  I'll install with my virus scanner set to kill, though, which of course implies that I trust my virus scanner.  There has to be a line in the sand somewhere...but that doesn't stop me from checking on that now and then, too...

Our developers write software in admin mode with no firewalls and no limits, then they run into me.  My boss also runs development so sometimes I lose, but not very often.

 

Heck, I don't even trust my AV   .  

At my age I'm fine with 'amusing myself to death' and if a game (sim ) runs good and I'm able to completely transport myself into it... I might get really trusty (that's bad!)  If the game runs crappy and the code keeps me running in circles but I don't wanna leave it 'cause  there are no alternatives...  then I get bored and suspicious.  'Why do they keep me running in circles?' 'Do they know what they're doing?' 'Is there only 1 dev +AI running this outfit (lol)" 'Is there some other sinister reason...'   OK, it's only gonna get worse older I get, fine!

Sooner or later I'll get bored enough and venture into my backyard to help my wife with gardening...

[Dragon1-1]

3 hours ago, Raisuli said:

If something in DCS tweaks my virus scanner it doesn't get used until that's resolved, but it says something about society when games are so important to people they'll take whatever chance necessary to play them. 

Yes, it says that we have a society with a functioning legal system, which says that if you bought, for money, a program that's infested with malware, you're free to sue the provider of said program into oblivion, recouping any monetary damages their software might have caused (disclaimers in EULA be damned, they're not worth the disk space it takes to store them). For me, trusted program=I know who to sue if it causes any damage. Generally, not getting sued is high on the companies' list of priorities, so you can reasonably expect a commercial product to be free of things that would give you a reason to sue. Seeing as I like to buy things on sales, I'd likely know about any legal scandals involving the program before buying it.

Sure, commercial software can be compromised, but that typically happens to stuff meant to be installed on servers with access to really important data, or at least workstations, not normal computers. Standards for professional computers are, of course, higher (but then, nobody installs games on them, and hopefully not any 20 years old software, either).

[sthompson]

7 hours ago, Raisuli said:

If something in DCS tweaks my virus scanner it doesn't get used until that's resolved, but it says something about society when games are so important to people they'll take whatever chance necessary to play them.  Neil Postman would be impressed how far we've gone since he wrote 'Amusing Ourselves to Death'.

An app so poorly written that it needs to run as admin shouldn't be run at all, especially a game.  Install?  Sure.  Run?  Forget it.

So what do you do when a DCS update fails because your AV detects something wrong in one file that is needed for just one module? Do you uninstall the module? What if they never fix it, which in my experience is the norm. When I've reported this as a bug I've universally been told that it's a false positive that I should ignore and create an exception for, but no one ever offers any proof that it's a false positive.

As to the second point, I've never gotten SRS to run properly except with admin privileges. Not sure why it needs those. If anyone has thoughts on how to run it without admin privileges I would like to know how.

[Rudel_chw]

18 minutes ago, sthompson said:

So what do you do when a DCS update fails because your AV detects something wrong in one file that is needed for just one module?

 

Never happens to me, since I have the DCS Folder excluded from the AV action.

 

18 minutes ago, sthompson said:

Do you uninstall the module? What if they never fix it, which in my experience is the norm.

 

Why should ED fix it? It is an Antivirus fault ... you can report the issue to your AV support line, they will inspect the file and told you if it is really infected or not.

 

18 minutes ago, sthompson said:

When I've reported this as a bug I've universally been told that it's a false positive that I should ignore and create an exception for, but no one ever offers any proof that it's a false positive.

 

I think it all boils down to who you trust more? Eagle Dynamics or your AV maker?  If you want to be 100% sure it is a false positive, send the offending file to your AV support, they should be able to identify exactly what virus they have detected, if any.

 

18 minutes ago, sthompson said:

As to the second point, I've never gotten SRS to run properly except with admin privileges. Not sure why it needs those. If anyone has thoughts on how to run it without admin privileges I would like to know how.

 

Can't help with that, as I dont use SRS, hopefully someone else can share his experience.

 

[draconus]

1 hour ago, sthompson said:

As to the second point, I've never gotten SRS to run properly except with admin privileges. Not sure why it needs those. If anyone has thoughts on how to run it without admin privileges I would like to know how.

https://github.com/ciribob/DCS-SimpleRadioStandalone/issues/284#issuecomment-425895277