DCS F-4E Phantom II Release Date Announcement- May 21st 2024

[Baldrick33]

3 hours ago, TobiasDeVil said:

On the day of the release this is really good and happy news, I didn't even notice any sign of apology, just a dry statement... I can imagine it at a concert, sorry folks, no concert today, come back tomorrow 

You have been to Manchester Arena then!

On the plus side at least we didn’t have to drive half away across the country to find out our Phantom had been delayed.

[primus_TR]

36 minutes ago, LancerVI said:

Typical of this generation. [and some other ad hominem attacks]

 

 Making assumptions about things you know nothing about doesn't reflect well on you. Focus on the discussion. You asked me a question.  I was kind enough to answer to point out the relevance of my post. If this has caused you emotional devastation, then find a way to deal with it.  Geez

Edited May 21, 2024 by primus_TR
Clarity

[Slippa]

10 minutes ago, 71st_AH Rob said:

Oh, someone will...

*makes a note on the calendar.

[Castor Troy]

3 minutes ago, primus_TR said:

 Making assumptions about things you know nothing about doesn't reflect well on you. Focus on the discussion. You asked me a question.  I was kind enough to answer to point out the relevance of my post. If this has caused you emotional devastation, then find a way to deal with it.  Geez

I'm sure he being a 75 year old ex LEO, makes him as hard headed as they come.

[freehand]

I bought the module just over 5 hours ago now I have to wait another 24 hours, that's the last time I will pre order ever a module again.

[Yeti42]

2 hours ago, Lurch1o said:

As a pilot and a programmer I can understand the complexities of both sides of the equation so I'm afraid I would have to disagree.  Just as mechanics find something 'extra' wrong as they tear down a jet engine which delays the repair yet further, software engineers discover errors or performance hits as their software gets distributed to a wider range of hardware.

My 'guess' is that the early release to the content creator community has show a few performance issues/bugs on a wider range of hardware.  The love that PC builders have of chucking ever more diverse bits of kit into their already over stressed boxes of RGB leads to an almost infinite number of hardware configurations that software, even through the abstraction layer, has to deal with.

It's another day or a few more days. Big deal.  This forum will explode exponentially more if/when bugs are found. 

I disagree with you disagreeing. I'm an ex aircraft engineer, a pilot and an ex programmer, I've been working in the software industry for over 25 years at all levels.  It's very rare any company I've worked for has had to delay a release on THE DAY OF release.  The only way this happens is if you don't allow enough time for testing and final build checks, assuming you won't find any problems and not having any contingency time to fix them. This is a simple project management failure, for any serious software vendor this would be a PR disaster.  If it was two weeks ago and they found a problem with the RC build that was very difficult to fix or had a huge risk then it's kind of excusable to delay a release, but not one day before.

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 hour ago, Major Corvus said:

I will never pre-purchase a module again.

So you just committed to paying a higher price for the same product. That really strikes at the heart.

"Oh Noes, he is threatening to give us more money. Quick, push it out the door now to prevent even more doing this dastardly deed."

[Dom82]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb =475FG= Dawger:

So you just committed to paying a higher price for the same product. That really strikes at the heart.

"Oh Noes, he is threatening to give us more money. Quick, push it out the door now to prevent even more doing this dastardly deed."

Why he needs to pay a higher Price? Steam Users get the Discount in the first week after Release.

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 minute ago, Dom82 said:

Why he needs to pay a higher Price? Steam Users get the Discount in the first week after Release.

Since he implied he pre-purchased the F-4, he isn't a Steam version user, but I guess he could decide to switch to Steam to get pre-purchase pricing after release on the next module to come down the pike.

[Dom82]

Mea Culpa, I ignored this point of view

[Richrach]

In 20 years of actual combat flying, 129 missions and 498.9 hours two things were seared into my mind:

1. NEVER trust the USAF.

2. NEVER count on backside gas.

Now, add a third:

3. DO NOT COUNT ON a sim module/program/product to come out until you have it downloaded and actually working on your personal computer.

 

At the end of the day, days, weeks, or months, this is just a game.  To be sure, it allows me to relive some things I did in real life and that helps with my PTSD.  That said, it is just a game I can play or walk away from.  No one dies.

 

Disappointed? Absolutely.  Maybe I will dust of Falcon 4.0 and play that for a bit. - Richrach 

[ThorBrasil]

Meanwhile I'm studying the manual. you should do the same. time will pass faster.

https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/

 

[Kang]

I love how this thread just escalated entirely. Pitchforks and torches are on the stand to the left, everyone, only one each, please.

[Hiob]

7 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

Meanwhile I'm studying the manual. you should do the same. time will pass faster.

https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/

 

Or watch the coldstart tutorial by Reflected.

 

Edited May 21, 2024 by Hiob

[av8orDave]

36 minutes ago, Yeti42 said:

I disagree with you disagreeing. I'm an ex aircraft engineer, a pilot and an ex programmer, I've been working in the software industry for over 25 years at all levels.  It's very rare any company I've worked for has had to delay a release on THE DAY OF release.  The only way this happens is if you don't allow enough time for testing and final build checks, assuming you won't find any problems and not having any contingency time to fix them. This is a simple project management failure, for any serious software vendor this would be a PR disaster.  If it was two weeks ago and they found a problem with the RC build that was very difficult to fix or had a huge risk then it's kind of excusable to delay a release, but not one day before.

This 100%. After spending nearly 20 years in corporate America, I'll say the unthinkable: a 23 year-old super-green recent college grad consultant from McKinsey would recommend better project management practices than what we regularly see with these patches. Whatever was done didn't work, and that needs evaluated, of course unless they just don't care about hitting dates. It sure sounds like they didn't test the final release candidate and leave enough time to either work through issues or not delay on the day of the planned launch.

Yes, I agree with all of the crowd here that says "in the grand scheme, this isn't really a big deal". That's obvious. We're talking about a video game, hobby, whatever. On the other hand, the constant delays get annoying. It is clearly a pattern, and symptomatic of an issue managing product launches. 

It is not "normal" or "to be expected" to have last-minute delays for complex products, processes, or any other project, regardless of whether it is software, medical devices, brain surgery, aircraft manufacturing, or making orange juice. It's symptomatic of a bad management process. 

Edited May 21, 2024 by davidrbarnette

[ASW]

2 часа назад, Volator сказал:

I can't believe grown-up people really took a day off because of this. Is this your first-ever anticipated release of a DCS module, or of a computer game in general?

"You made a bad choice!"

They lie to mock the developers. On YouTube, F4 videos have an average of 2,500 views. In total, 10-15 people are crying here.)

[LancerVI]

5 minutes ago, davidrbarnette said:

This 100%. After spending nearly 20 years in corporate America, I'll say the unthinkable: a 23 year-old super-green recent college grad consultant from McKinsey would recommend better project management practices than what we regularly see with these patches. Whatever was done didn't work, and that needs evaluated, of course unless they just don't care about hitting dates. It sure sounds like they didn't test the final release candidate and leave enough time to either work through issues or not delay on the day of the planned launch.

Yes, I agree with all of the crowd here that says "in the grand scheme, this isn't really a big deal". That's obvious. We're talking about a video game, hobby, whatever. On the other hand, the constant delays get annoying. It is clearly a pattern, and symptomatic of an issue managing product launches. 

It is not "normal" or "to be expected" to have last-minute delays for complex products, processes, or any other project, regardless of whether it is software, medical devices, brain surgery, aircraft manufacturing, or making orange juice. It's symptomatic of a bad management process. 

 

QFT.......

an adult. 

[ASW]

15 минут назад, davidrbarnette сказал:

This 100%. After spending nearly 20 years in corporate America, I'll say the unthinkable: a 23 year-old super-green recent college grad consultant from McKinsey would recommend better project management practices than what we regularly see with these patches. Whatever was done didn't work, and that needs evaluated, of course unless they just don't care about hitting dates. It sure sounds like they didn't test the final release candidate and leave enough time to either work through issues or not delay on the day of the planned launch.

Yes, I agree with all of the crowd here that says "in the grand scheme, this isn't really a big deal". That's obvious. We're talking about a video game, hobby, whatever. On the other hand, the constant delays get annoying. It is clearly a pattern, and symptomatic of an issue managing product launches. 

It is not "normal" or "to be expected" to have last-minute delays for complex products, processes, or any other project, regardless of whether it is software, medical devices, brain surgery, aircraft manufacturing, or making orange juice. It's symptomatic of a bad management process. 

 

I watch the news from the USA and every day something happens there with real Boeings. Then the engine will fall off, then a wheel or a piece of skin.)Copy and send them your message because this is really bad company management, corruption and so on.)))
DCS, in my opinion, works more on enthusiasm. This is not a game, but a simulator.

[Kalasnkova74]

23 minutes ago, davidrbarnette said:

It is not "normal" or "to be expected" to have last-minute delays for complex products, processes, or any other project, regardless of whether it is software, medical devices, brain surgery, aircraft manufacturing, or making orange juice. It's symptomatic of a bad management process. 

 

Or, it’s symptomatic of a niche business where investment in systemic quality management processes is not available.

If EA is Toyota, HB is the hand built sports car company working out of a garage. Scalable processes don’t work for niche businesses because there isn’t enough capital to finance repeatable process development. Which is why you can buy a Toyota truck off a showroom lot and drive the thing for hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues , but a handbuilt Morgan sports car might have quality problems before it even leaves the dealer lot. 

I’m sure HB and ED would love to implement better quality management steps, but those quality management practices cost money. Unless Taylor Swift picks up DCS and brags about it on social media, that revenue isn’t realistic. So, like the Morgan customer, we must grin and bear the occasional process failure and delivery delay.

Edited May 21, 2024 by Kalasnkova74

[huchanronaa]

Update delays have almost become the norm! This is a pretty bad thing

[Baldrick33]

51 minutes ago, Yeti42 said:

I disagree with you disagreeing. I'm an ex aircraft engineer, a pilot and an ex programmer, I've been working in the software industry for over 25 years at all levels.  It's very rare any company I've worked for has had to delay a release on THE DAY OF release.  The only way this happens is if you don't allow enough time for testing and final build checks, assuming you won't find any problems and not having any contingency time to fix them. This is a simple project management failure, for any serious software vendor this would be a PR disaster.  If it was two weeks ago and they found a problem with the RC build that was very difficult to fix or had a huge risk then it's kind of excusable to delay a release, but not one day before.

I have worked in Corporate IT including software development and project management for 30 odd years. I have also had the good fortune of being on some alpha and beta groups for sim racing and flight sims (not DCS for the avoidance of doubt). The games industry is remarkably different. Someone with better knowledge of it than can probably explain why, there seems no contingency time.

The development goes to the wire every time. I am not even convinced it is to get ahead of the competition, it just seems to be how it is. Code is literally getting checked in whilst the "final" testing is taking place leading to some "final final" testing of the release version hours before it is due to be released. My Corporate IT mind is screaming, I imagine it even more so for military and aviation project managers. At least in the "mission critical" systems I have worked on no one gets hurt if people can't order more widgets!

I think this discussion could be had for pretty much every games studio, they are all a bit crazy IMHO

[LG_Barons]

From a marketing standpoint, just wait one more week. 28th of May is an important day for the Phantom Community. 

[Lagricole]

IT HAS DROPED GUYS go dl it

[hermes7226]

17 минут назад, Migparts сказал:

Not appearing at 15:00 Zulu in Cyprus.

No, come back tomorrow...)). (May be) 

Edited May 21, 2024 by hermes7226

[Mizzy]

OMG, I can just imagine what would happen if they did release it and the complaints that followed. Heatblur, I would delay it again till Friday and really piss these fanatics off !!

Mizzy