DCS F-4E Phantom II Release Date Announcement- May 21st 2024

[leinsters]

I've been waiting for this since I was a kid. I had a cousin that was an F4 WISO and 42 years ago I watched the RAF Phantom display at Biggin Hill on my birthday. When I first discovered DCS probably 12 years ago I secretly hoped that they would build a Phantom with the same details of the A10C.

Tomorrow is my birthday and despite the delay - in my world this feels kinda perfect (if it happens tomorrow, lol). 

[Gunfreak]

38 minutes ago, ASW said:

They lie to mock the developers. On YouTube, F4 videos have an average of 2,500 views. In total, 10-15 people are crying here.)

Growling Sidewinder F4 videos have between 64 000 and 138 000 views.

Red kites videos which are much more technical and more like guides have between 11 000 and 38 000 views 

Tricker has one video with 11 000 and one with 75 000

104th Maverick has 10 000 views on his refueling video

 

Disel Thunder has an half hour long video just dealing with the dry complexities of the fuel system and got 10 000 views.

Edited May 21 by Gunfreak

[bfr]

3 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

I have worked in Corporate IT including software development and project management for 30 odd years. I have also had the good fortune of being on some alpha and beta groups for sim racing and flight sims (not DCS for the avoidance of doubt). The games industry is remarkably different. Someone with better knowledge of it than can probably explain why, there seems no contingency time.

The development goes to the wire every time. I am not even convinced it is to get ahead of the competition, it just seems to be how it is. Code is literally getting checked in whilst the "final" testing is taking place leading to some "final final" testing of the release version hours before it is due to be released. My Corporate IT mind is screaming, I imagine it even more so for military and aviation project managers. At least in the "mission critical" systems I have worked on no one gets hurt if people can't order more widgets!

I think this discussion could be had for pretty much every games studio, they are all a bit crazy IMHO

I imagine testing is a lot more difficult than your average software development project because the number of interactions and paths to explore is so huge, so much of what you are evaluating is subjective and not to mention the variety of hardware your product is going to eventually run on (which I think was at the heart of the case for the initial HB delay where something broke things badly on certain levels of hardware).

The recent shift in release cadence I wonder whether is a double-edged sword or not. On one hand it should mean things don't need to be rushed but there is also an obvious temptation to squeeze 'one last thing' into a build when the next release window is six weeks away rather than a couple.

[bfr]

Just now, Migparts said:

not appearing in Cyprus at 15:43 Zulu

Are you planning on pulling an all-nighter for these 'updates' or something?

[Comstedt86]

1 minute ago, bfr said:

Are you planning on pulling an all-nighter for these 'updates' or something?

I hope, kind of entertaining. 

[Q3ark]

1 minute ago, Migparts said:

not appearing in Cyprus at 15:53 Zulu

WTF dude, they said it would be the 22nd, we know it’s not out in Cyprus yet.

[Lee Dove]

1 hour ago, freehand said:

I bought the module just over 5 hours ago now I have to wait another 24 hours, that's the last time I will pre order ever a module again.

I bought the module 5 months ago and now have to wait another day !!!! I will pre-order again

13 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Firstly, I'm not your 'mate' since you put a question mark. Secondly, use correct punctuation, it's 'don't' not 'dont'. Kind regards.

Maybe he meant Donut not don't ?

[Lee Dove]

1 hour ago, Yeti42 said:

I disagree with you disagreeing. I'm an ex aircraft engineer, a pilot and an ex programmer, I've been working in the software industry for over 25 years at all levels.  It's very rare any company I've worked for has had to delay a release on THE DAY OF release.  The only way this happens is if you don't allow enough time for testing and final build checks, assuming you won't find any problems and not having any contingency time to fix them. This is a simple project management failure, for any serious software vendor this would be a PR disaster.  If it was two weeks ago and they found a problem with the RC build that was very difficult to fix or had a huge risk then it's kind of excusable to delay a release, but not one day before.

I have also been in SW dev and PM for 30+ years  and disagree with you disagreeing on him disagreeing. SW dev company prepares release, MS releases a Windows update that breaks the build the day before release, what do you do? You hold the release in any sane commercial world. This has happened to me !

[freehand]

Nothing like a delayed module to bring the best out in people.

[Mizzy]

Just now, freehand said:

Nothing like a delayed module to bring the best out in people.

Just what I was thinking !!

[BIGNEWY]

folks a reminder, treat each other with respect or do not post. Rules can be found at the top of the forum 

thank you 

[Migparts]

Was it really 22nd ? then I take all updates back.

I thought they said 21st.

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, Migparts said:

Was it really 22nd ? then I take all updates back.

I thought they said 21st.

It was the 21st, we had to delay for 24 hours to fix some issues found during final checks of DCS 

sorry about that 

[frostycab]

The best thing about threads like this is that they keep me up to date on which people I never want to fly with. LOL

[Migparts]

Aha - no worries.

[Slippa]

Someone’s singing m’lawd, kum ba yah 

[ASW]

Some people write about the need to get ahead of the competition. DCS has no competitors.)

[Mizzy]

11 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

issues found during final checks of DCS 

sorry about that 

I am glad someone has identified that it may not be solely Heatblur's fault, but a DCS problem as well. A post earlier stating this is a PR disaster and unheard of in software development. We need to understand this is a module that integrates into another program, the F4 is NOT a stand alone product. 

Mizzy 

Edited May 21 by Mizzy

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, Mizzy said:

I am glad someone has identified that it may not be solely Heatblur's fault, but a DCS problem as well. A post earler stating this is a PR disaster and unheard of problem in software development needs to understand this is a module that needs to be integrated into another program. The person didn't realise (or appreciate) what the situation is, in my opinion .

Mizzy 

It was not a heatblur issue, it was blocking issues found during final checks of DCS. The DCS patch is required for the F-4E launch to happen so we will need to delay for 1 day sadly. 

thank you 

[Horns]

I feel the need to comment because today I had a situation rather analogous to this come up, so this will salve my feelings some as well. The below is opinion, as always differing opinions are valid.

I don't know any better than anyone else whether the problem was strictly to do with the F-4E (I believe Cobra when he says it wasn't, but I know some of you may not), the surrounding work that ED did to create the patch or both, but here's the thing: even if the problem was solely related to the F-4E module, ED are the final decision makers. At the point Heatblur are told the build of the module to be included in the patch is ready for EA there should be no further changes, so at that point the build to be included in the patch is final. Improvements or fixes are for later builds.

That means that even if the patch was held up because of an F-4E problem, ultimate responsibility does not lie with Heatblur.

That said, at the point ED realized that there was a problem with some part of the patch, they have limited options (I believe them when they say the delay was unavoidable, some may not). Totally get why many people are unhappy, and from the tone of their responses it seems like Heatblur and ED do as well. All that can really be done at this point is to understand the problem and put procedures in place to stop this situation recurring. By Friday I hope everyone will be feeling a lot better.

Please note: I wrote this prior to seeing BIGNEWY's post

Edited May 21 by Horns
Added final line

[hermes7226]

29 минут назад, Lee Dove сказал:

I bought the module 5 months ago and now have to wait another day !!!! I will pre-order again

This is a manly thing to do, I’ll go and do the same..))

 

[markturner1960]

1 hour ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

Or, it’s symptomatic of a niche business where investment in systemic quality management processes is not available.

If EA is Toyota, HB is the hand built sports car company working out of a garage. Scalable processes don’t work for niche businesses because there isn’t enough capital to finance repeatable process development. Which is why you can buy a Toyota truck off a showroom lot and drive the thing for hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues , but a handbuilt Morgan sports car might have quality problems before it even leaves the dealer lot. 

I’m sure HB and ED would love to implement better quality management steps, but those quality management practices cost money. Unless Taylor Swift picks up DCS and brags about it on social media, that revenue isn’t realistic. So, like the Morgan customer, we must grin and bear the occasional process failure and delivery delay.

 

Sorry, but why all the excuses for what is plainly a giant balls up at ED end....? They are a BIG company and you dont NEED to be a big company to have good processes in place to make sure your product is delivered on time without quality issues. Millions of small businesses around the world can attest to that.

I should add, I am am a huge supporter of what ED are doing, buy all the modules and maps , just to support them, as we have NO other choice of sim to fly really. Which is why I think this hurts a lot of people as its a pattern and to happen on this release of all releases just feels like someone does not care.......

 

Edited May 21 by markturner1960

[FZG_Immel]

this is really pathetic. if it wasnt the reflect of the clown world we live in, it would be a sad day. Better laugh about it

5 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

Sorry, but why all the excuses for what is plainly a giant balls up at ED end....? They are a BIG company and you dont NEED to be a big company to have good processes in place to make sure your product is delivered on time without quality issues. Millions of small businesses around the world can attest to that.

+1

[Horns]

... And *that guy* says "I bought a Phantom, not a Mirage"...

[FZG_Immel]

2 minutes ago, Horns said:

... And *that guy* says "I bought a Phantom, not a Mirage"...

quality