Mastering your First Phantom Flight

[panpan9133]

8 hours ago, Nealius said:

A toggle option like what the A-4 mod has in Special Options would be nice. Press and hold is starting to cause carpal-tunnel-like pain in my stick hand. 

Or you can try the “that’s why you have a GIB” method of keeping the NWS engaged while you taxi… At least, that’s what a real F-4 driver told me when I asked him about the need to keep the damn switch pressed

[dogsbody59]

How do I work out my weight for approach speeds/landing speed please

[Nealius]

On 6/12/2024 at 6:05 AM, dogsbody59 said:

How do I work out my weight for approach speeds/landing speed please

TO -1 charts, but you'll be flying off the AoA indexer anyways. 

[Victory205]

The TA-4J/F had the same NWS switch logic. Even with its narrow gear, taxi on straightaways was accomplished with rudder and differential braking. unless there was a crosswind, NWS was engaged only for turns. 

For takeoffs in the F-4E sim, I generally don’t use NWS unless at very slow speeds. Line up carefully, and if you need to engage it at high speed to correct a drift for some reason, then ensure that you center the rudder pedals before pressing the NWS button. 

If you have a pinky switch on your controller, then it’s not a big deal to use it as intended, pressing only when necessary. NWS should be used sparingly, with steering priority being aerodynamic rudder first, then differential braking, then NWS. Not sure why pressing and holding a little switch when necessary is causing drama.

Don’t want you gents to get the wrong idea, and develop bad habits that put you into the weeds with a load of bombs, with a lot of explaining to do to the base commander.

[G.J.S]

2 hours ago, Victory205 said:

Don’t want you gents to get the wrong idea, and develop bad habits that put you into the weeds with a load of bombs, with a lot of explaining to do to the base commander.

Hat on, bring your own refreshments 

[Victory205]

2 hours ago, G.J.S said:

Hat on, bring your own refreshments 

Standing before the long green table, at attention, in front of a group of senior officers you just disrespected, trying to justify why you should keep your wings.

It takes less talent to stay out of trouble than to talk your way out of it.

[Nealius]

It's not drama, it's hardware. We don't have Phantom sticks at home.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

On 6/13/2024 at 2:00 PM, Victory205 said:

If you have a pinky switch on your controller, then it’s not a big deal to use it as intended, pressing only when necessary. NWS should be used sparingly, with steering priority being aerodynamic rudder first, then differential braking, then NWS. Not sure why pressing and holding a little switch when necessary is causing drama.
 

I have found that some presses of my stick buttons aren´t always kept, meaning that the slightest of pressure differential of my fingers, cause the stick brains to "unpress".
With the Phantom lacking visual feedback for NWS on, and not always catching the hearing feedback during a critical phase of flying like taking off, with the ground roll, aircraft vibrations, burners on... I prefer not to ruin my precious available time to fly by crashing at takeoff roll hence keeping the NWS binded to a non momentary hotas switch.

[Holbeach]

On 6/13/2024 at 1:00 PM, Victory205 said:

 

On 6/13/2024 at 1:00 PM, Victory205 said:

 NWS should be used sparingly, with steering priority being aerodynamic rudder first, then differential braking, then NWS. Not sure why pressing and holding a little switch when necessary is causing drama.

 

 

 

Curious to know.

Manual specifically says, Don't use diff braking on T/O roll.

I use NW steering and it works perfectly well, about 6 secs press to 70 kts.

Why would you want to use brakes?.

 

..

[Nealius]

What kind of crosswinds are you guys flying with? With real weather (typically 7~9kts, sometimes slight crosswind) I have no need for either NWS or differential breaking on the TO roll. She's very stable on centerline. Probably the most stable of any of my modules on the takeoff roll. 

 

Edited June 18, 2024 by Nealius

[Elf1606688794]

On 6/17/2024 at 7:08 PM, Nealius said:

What kind of crosswinds are you guys flying with? With real weather (typically 7~9kts, sometimes slight crosswind) I have no need for either NWS or differential breaking on the TO roll. She's very stable on centerline. Probably the most stable of any of my modules on the takeoff roll. 

 

 

I seem to drift every time and need to correct.

[Kirk66]

IRL you didn't need to hold the NGS button that much - just hold it when you need to turn, or give it a tap to get back on centerline. Minor corrections during taxi can be done with a bit of diff brakes, just a light tap to ease over onto the yellow line. On takeoff, first take the time to line up and roll forward with NGS off to make sure the nose gear is straight. Then, when you start takeoff, unless there is a strong crosswind you may not need any correction until the rudder works at 70 knots, or perhaps a touch of NGS, but honestly if you line up straight you will go straight long enough, if you start drifting feed in as much rudder as you need and it will work fine. On landing, rudder after touchdown, then at 100 knots start with diff brakes (you are using them anyway by then), then NGS to turn off the runway into the de-arm. Remember with a crosswind, you may have to drop the drag chute early if it starts to pull you upwind - as soon as you notice you need A LOT of rudder on rollout, jett the chute and jump on the brakes.

If your finger is getting tired, you are doing it wrong!

(yeah, that's what she said...)

Vulture

[Holbeach]

I use my thumb. It never gets tired.

..

Edited June 25, 2024 by Holbeach

[tusler]

Me trying to takeoff and why my back-seater does not trust me anymore.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/508585641594485

[Nealius]

On 6/25/2024 at 11:44 AM, Kirk66 said:

IRL you didn't need to hold the NGS button that much - just hold it when you need to turn

*cries in curved taxiways*

[tusler]

The hardest thing for me is reading the tini tiny guages, then trying to get level flight happening by trimming, it is either climbing or diving and my goodness don't think about rolling a little for a bank turn with the Warthog Hotas, The roll rate is like 120 degrees a second, so I have to constantly use autopilot just to get stable flight.

[TOViper]

18 hours ago, tusler said:

The hardest thing for me is reading the tini tiny guages...

Maybe its better to remember the position of the needles (2 o'clock you are most probably rolling or falling from sky, 4 o'clock you are barely getting to fly, 6 o'clock you are in the comfort speed range, 7 o'clock you approach higher dynamic pressure areas, 8 o'clock you get in lower subsonic speed range, 9 o'clock you are slowly approaching transonic range, etc.). Remember these positions together with their related values if you can, so you don't have to really read the values, but instead just glance on the needles which are much more easier to spot.
If you need exact values, you can always reserve one or one and a half second (shouldn't take much longer).

18 hours ago, tusler said:

The roll rate is like 120 degrees a second, so I have to constantly use autopilot just to get stable flight.

It's time to use a curvature for the roll axis then; I have Warthog as well and I feel that a curvature value of ~10 to 20 is good enough.
The same applies to pitch axis (considering pitch stab is ON); with a curvature of 20 you should be fine here as well.

Edited February 16 by TOViper

[Outlaw3]

 I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've watched "Landing & Shutdown Tutorial for the F-4E Phantom by Heatblur in DCS World" by Reflected about a dozen times and I still cannot get anything right. Well, other than the break and that's still iffy. On the downwind, 250 kts I lower the gear and start trimming nose up, then 220-210 drop the flaps and continue to trim nose up. Here's the interesting part, I try to maintain 180-190 kts while attempting to get "on speed", I either start dropping like a rock or I'll start gaining altitude like a rocket. Especially during my last turn.  In one scenario, my airspeed was about 160 kts and I was gaining altitude and another scenario I'm at 190 kts and descending fast! AOA is as close to the same as I can manage both times. It seems the more I try the worse I get. I have better luck with the F14 landing on a carrier than the F-4 on shore. This is really frustrating me to no end. I really love the F-4 more than the 14 too. Flying it is a blast but my landings are embarrassing. I'm either landing extremely hard or just ending up in a fire ball. I've tried adding power to when I sense that I'm descending too fast but that seems to make it worse.

I think I need to take a break from it and check my headspace and timing. 

[Zabuzard]

Would you be willing to share a track of a landing attempt? We (and the community) can then have a look and identify what went wrong, trying to give tips

[OttoSH]

Hi,

landing the Phantom is not very ease. I myself, with lots of real world and simulator flying experience also had my problems in proper flying the phantom down
to the runway. What i noticed is, that the phantom consumes very much energy when flying a turn. So to hold altitude and speed during base turn, you
have to add power preemptively, before even noticing a drop in speed or altitude. When you end the turn and get the wings back level, die phantom has
much less drag again and accelerates quickly, if you dont reduce your thrust again.

Furthermore, it tends to change its trim very much in the low speed regime with small speed changes. Beware: At 230kt the flaps are blown up and the drag and trim
changes ..

I think i got it right after trying it 20 times ...

Now i configure the aircraft on downwind before entering base turn with flaps&slats down and out, trimming for about 200 knots and then pulling through the
base and final turn. On final i reduce the speed to "on speed" or a little bit faster and fly the phantom down to the runway. Keep in mind, the engines are
oriented downwards, so when you change power, you also change the vertical speed to some extend. Reducing the power to idle before touchdown may result in
a hard landing.

maybe whe can tell a littel bit more after seeing a track

Otto