Mastering your First Phantom Flight

[Ghostmaker]

9 minutes ago, jojo said:

Am I the only to struggle with the trim ?

I always get a click too much or not enough.

Especially in landing configuration, I can't manage to trim "hands free" for landing AoA...

I have a similar issue, but ive bewn told you have to constanly stay ontop of the trim with the F4. It would be nice to be able to set it and leave it untill you relaae weapons

[jojo]

4 minutes ago, Ghostmaker said:

I have a similar issue, but ive bewn told you have to constanly stay ontop of the trim with the F4. It would be nice to be able to set it and leave it untill you relaae weapons

 

 

 

[Phantom12]

To discuss everyones favorite forbidden topic: Anyone tried a bunch of carrier landings yet? The airplane handles nicely around the boat but try as I might I seem to hook skip or bolter everytime. Is there some trick to it or is the hook setup differently for the USAF runway arresting gear? Onspeed AoA seems to be more or less the same as for the navy versions.

[Super Grover]

I haven't looked into all Navy data. Still, I know that the indicated AoA vs fuselage production AoA is slightly different with the landing gear down in the truly carrier-compatible version, as the nose gear door impact is higher.

[Phantom12]

I recall reading that the onspeed indication for the E and the J were both centered on about 19 units +- about 0.1-2 units. Youd know better than me if there was some change in the reference lines or how the units were converted from degrees though. Supposedly both run from -10 to +40 deg.

 

Maybe its a skill issue but I never had this much trouble with the Tomcat. Only way I got the hook to engage was on a cut pass and taxi through the wires while trying to use the brake chute.

[Super Grover]

12 hours ago, Phantom12 said:

Supposedly both run from -10 to +40 deg.

Yes, they do, but sadly, the airflow doesn't know about it. Neither does it care. As a result, the AoA probe angle is "something" with "some" relation to the production AoA. There is a reason why you won't find in any manual or other doc a precise formula for that relation. Similarly, you won't find any trim settings for any state other than take-off because, with the layout of the system and maintenance materials, it was impossible to guarantee a fixed value. And then, there's my favourite quote from the final approach speed chart:

Quote

VARIATIONS IN AIRSPEED INDICATIONS OF UP TO 6 KNOTS CAN OCCUR BETWEEN INDIVIDUAL AlRSPEED SYSTEMS.

So, I'd phrase it this way: sometimes, real life can be much worse at fulfilling our expectations than a simulation. By the way, we apply such variance in calibration and properties to multiple components, so unless you fly a reference airframe, you may experience such differences as those 6 knots quoted above.

[Phantom12]

Ah I see. Ill experiment flying slower.

[Super Grover]

Ah I see. Ill experiment flying slower.

I think it should be faster, around 17 units.

[Phantom12]

2 minutes ago, Super Grover said:

25 minutes ago, Phantom12 said:

Ah I see. Ill experiment flying slower.

I think it should be faster, around 17 units.

Happy to try that too... I might be wrong but I thought hookskips are aggravated by being too fast, whereas too slow risks inflight engagements. Anyway it does seem to reliably catch a wire if you touch down well short and taxi through the wires... Not proper, but then again I guess landing an airforce plane on the carrier isnt considered proper anyway.

[Victory205]

On 5/27/2024 at 2:42 PM, jojo said:

 

 

Watched Reflected’s video. It’s pretty good, but someone needs to let him know that he breaks like a pu**y. I’ve seen airliners roll faster and pull harder than that.

Co-ordinated rudder and aileron for rolling in the landing pattern please. Don’t get caught up in absolute engine rpm for adjustments, most pilots use fuel flow in most jets, and consider whatever they do reference as ball park settings.

Kidding aside, taking it easy as you build confidence in your abilities is a smart way to approach any new aircraft.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

For taking off, AFCS on or off?
These days I am having issues with going sideways during the takeoff roll.

[Grundar]

9 hours ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

For taking off, AFCS on or off?
These days I am having issues with going sideways during the takeoff roll.

 

AFCS Panel all Stab AUG switches on for takeoff.

Edited May 31, 2024 by Grundar
stab aug systems

[Super Grover]

http://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/cockpit/pilot/left_console/center_section.html?highlight=afcs#afcs-control-panel

STAB AUG: YAW, ROLL, PITCH -> ENGAGE

AFCS->OFF, ALT->OFF

[eatthis]

On 5/17/2024 at 12:09 AM, Victory205 said:

Surviving FAM-1 in the Phantom.

Congratulations on your purchase of the F-4E Phantom II. It is a sweet flying beast, with enormous depth and versatility. It’s easy to fly while being tactically challenging. The aircraft is versatile, and the era it dominated was interesting, a combination that produces hours upon hours of engaging fun. 

First, don’t be intimidated by the hulking beast. The surprising little secret is that it’s easy to fly. The Phantom is honest and uncomplicated procedurally, the engines are responsive and powerful, and the slats make it feel responsive, but also stable and precise. You point it where you want to go, push the throttles up and man, does it go!

As you would expect, Heatblur has delved deep into accurate modeling of systems and aerodynamics, and the result is a nuanced, detailed simulation of the F-4E. You will discover small details as you explore the aircraft and systems, they’ve even simulated the influence of engine exhaust flow on the stabilator due to its anhedral. How cool is that?

From broad testing experience and SME feedback, I recommend starting with a pitch curve of at least 10 for the F-4. The simulator is faithful to the real F4E, which is sensitive in pitch. Experiment and refine your axis tuning for your controller from there. I am currently using a non-FFB stick with a 4 inch extension and heavy spring tension, 12 works for me.

Map your controls. You only need pitch, roll, rudders, brakes, gear, flaps, nose wheel steering, speed brakes, trim in all axis and drag chute for this hop. Keyboard and clicking will be fine for the rest. We won’t be killing MiGs just yet.

This guide is meant to be a quick and dirty “FAM-1” guide to get you in the air and safely back to earth. We’ll also have some fun in between. I know you’re eager to give it a try, so skip startup and begin on the runway, ready to launch. 

Fly a clean jet today, or throw on a centerline drop tank for starters. The trim will already be set (understand that due to the way the bellows/trim system interacts, until airspeed increases, the stabilator will be positioned full leading edge down on the ground), engines running, check that the flaps are down, let’s go.

 

Normal Takeoff and Climb.

Apply full afterburner, position stick full aft when Jester calls 80 knots and hold it there. 

Nose-wheel steering until the rudder becomes effective ~70KIAS (the NWS button must be held during operation). If you drift and need nose-wheel steering to correct, then center the rudder pedals before re-engaging.

With full aft stick, the aircraft will rotate on its own when it’s ready to fly, ease off back stick to hold it at 10-12º nose up pitch attitude. Our intrepid F-4 SME’s and and recommended this technique, it works beautifully.

Gear and flaps up immediately to avoid overspeed. Both have limit speeds of 250 KIAS. Min flap retract is 180 KIAS, which is only a consideration during military power takeoffs. Jester will let you know when they’re up.

Terminate burner at 300 KIAS.

You’re in the air, easy peasy, nothing to it.

Climb at 350 to intercept .9 Mach.

Mil power climbs at 350 KIAS initially require just over 20º of pitch. 

In Max afterburner, it will climb into the mid twenties at .9 Mach at over 30º nose high. Beast mode.

Setting 3000 pph per engine results in a cruise Mach between .84 at FL 250 and .90 at FL350. That’s a fuel burn of 100 pounds per minute. Fuel planning couldn’t be simpler.

Mil power at FL350 tops out just below Mach, around .97 IMN. Ease the nose down and it will go supersonic without afterburner.

There is a little Mach Tuck going through transonic. Overall, the pitch changes are mild, trim is sensitive. Be quick with your thumb.

Operationally, the F-4E is a Mach 2 aircraft. In level flight, it’s fastest at 35,000, and can achieve the dash one charted speed of just over Mach 2. Unload in a dive, and if you sport an adequate moustache, you can hit 2.2 plus. You can have fun figuring out the profile for that for yourself.

At sea level, a low drag configuration tops out at 1.12-1.15 IMN. Adding external stores will reduce max Mach proportionately.

Maneuvering Flight

ROLL AUG off for maneuvering.

Always roll using coordinated rudder and aileron. The higher the AOA, feed in more rudder as ailerons are less effective. Rudder only rolls are smooth and predictable. Reducing AOA increases roll rate. Experiment at different AOA’s and speeds, it will come to you quickly.

Best sustained turns with typical Air to Air load outs at medium combat altitudes (SL to 15,000) range from 520-480 KIAS. Even with light pitch forces, flying a consistent, sustained turn is relatively easy. Smooth corrections pay big dividends. Control bank angle primarily with your feet. 

I checked the sustained turn G capability today from SL to 15,000 MSL, and it’s on the money. Gross weight affects performance of course, but if you’re doing your part, you’ll be able to hold 7.0 G on the deck, and 5.1 G while turning level at 15,000 MSL.  I’m quite impressed with how stable the Phantom is at high G loads.

You can already sense that the F-4E needs and loves airspeed. Use a 500 KIAS entry speed for a mil power loop, 450 with burner. A 4-5G pull up to 19.2 units will result in 200-230 knots or so over the top.

It takes a lot of intentional baffoonery at very low speeds to depart controlled flight, which commonly shows up as a nose slice opposite to the direction of aileron input. The recovery controls are neutralize ailerons and rudder, unload with stick well forward (5 degrees AOA is a good target), and pull the throttles back to idle power. If the engines compressor stall, no big deal, go to idle, they recover quickly.

Continue to hold up to full forward stick and let the aircraft do what it wants to do during post stall gyrations. As nose falls below horizon, and speed increases to 200 knots, you are flying again, so it’s safe to carefully roll with rudder and aileron to wings level, then pull up in light buffet, approximately 17 units, don’t exceed 19.2 units in the pullout.

Spin recovery controls are rudder opposite the yaw/turn needle and lateral stick into (the primary recovery control is aileron), but perhaps the biggest shock having heard all of the lore, it is difficult to get the slatted F-4E to spin, even intentionally.

That said, if the aircraft doesn’t recover, pull the drag chute. The aircraft will pitch nose down and accelerate. Either jettison the chute or let it fail when airspeed exceeds ~250knots.

If you see a nose slice, it’s probably the ailerons causing it. Center the stick, reduce the angle of attack.

The AJB-7 attitude indicator is so well designed that it can be used to fly precise aerobatic maneuvers, including rolling out on a specific heading, without looking outside the cockpit. The indicator is surrounded by the primary flight instruments, so in addition to the heading marks on the AJB-7 itself, you can see airspeed, AOA, altitude and the VSI in your peripheral vision, without shifting your scan. It’s all right there.

Try this. Referencing the attitude indicator, pull up wings level and peg the nose exactly in the middle of the black dot that depicts 90º up, then pull the throttles to idle and do a lovely tail slide. If you get it right, the aircraft will back  down, and full aft stick will make it flop forward, full forward stick will make it flop on to its back. Hold controls neutral, and it will pendulum past vertical at the bottom, where inertial dominates aerodynamics, just as a real fighter does. 

The AJB-7 clearly indicates where the closest horizon is to roll and pull out with minimal altitude loss. You can use it to pull out of a hairy maneuver on a specific heading, bugging out directly at home plate, where you can change out your underwear. 

Landing

Max landing weight is 46,000 pounds. We aren’t too concerned with limitations for our hop today, but you don’t want to get into bad habits either. That’s about 12,000lbs of fuel for our configuration today, shouldn’t be a problem.

At max landing weight, a stable on-speed landing AOA of 19.2 works out to 168 KIAS. If we were down to 3000 lbs of fuel using today’s configuration, on-speed would be 151 KIAS.

Overhead breaks at 350-400 KIAS work well. 4000 pph will result in 400 KIAS on the run in. In this speed range, idle power in the break is fine, speed brakes are not necessary. If you do use the boards during a faster break entry, they should be manually retracted on downwind. If you are struggling to hold altitude when dirty, then you forgot to retract the speed brakes.

Seat full up for landing. It’s difficult to see over the nose, so you may need to use RCTL+RSHFT+8 to raise cockpit camera. 

Extend gear and flaps at 250 KIAS, get the power back up as the aircraft decelerates towards 180 knots. That’s minimum speed on downwind, but slow to the “on-speed” AOA of 19.2 units (the big white square) before or during the first part of the final turn. Jester will talk you through the simple Landing Checklist. 

For reference, when level downwind, pitch will be 10-11º, and ballpark fuel flow with be ~4000 pph per engine. The aural tone and indexers give plenty of feedback.

Gear and flap extension both cause a very mild pitch down. Flaps extend when decelerating through around 210 KIAS. Flaps will retract in the air if over-sped.

Like most fighters, you’ll need to add power around the approach turn to control rate of descent. It doesn’t take much. 

Perform all rolling in the pattern with coordinated rudder and aileron.

Trim and pitch are sensitive in the landing configuration, faithful to the aircraft, so smooth inputs are required. Fly with your fingertips.

Due to the -5.25 degree thrust line of the J79 engines, adding power causes the nose to pitch down, reducing it causes a pitch up. It’s exactly opposite of the F-14. When you push with your left hand, you will need a slight pull with your right and vice versa.

It’s also a happy little airplane during approach, with the AOA tone beeping and chirping. In fact, it’s quite easy to get on the runway in one piece. All of that cheerful noise should be a clue that the Phantom is flown while referencing AOA in the landing pattern. If you are struggling, try flying a little fast, with the AOA needle at the bottom of the white, “on-speed” index mark, around 17-18 units. 

We aren’t landing on the ship, so a little fast is fine as you get familiar, you have plenty of runway to work with. 

Use the “bug on the windshield” for glide path reference. Just like landing a Cessna. If you are addicted, you’ll quickly wean yourself off of HUDs.

If you get behind the power curve, above 19.2 units or more, understand that excessive AOA causes enormous drag that if unchecked, will dramatically increase descent rate. To recover, forward stick to reduce AOA immediately is critical, while adding lots of power. You need both, don’t try to power out, reduce AOA with pitch.

Danger of stall buffet and nose slice lurks above 25 units.

In the flare, you may need to look to the left or right through the windshield side panel to see the runway, like Lindbergh did flying the Spirit of St Louis. It’s where you look when landing tail draggers or even fat nosed single engined Cessnas. Some instructors call it  “The Lindbergh Reference”.

I find that carrying power into the flare makes for a smoother landing. Arrest the rate of descent before you ease the power and let it settle. If you are fast, then pulling more power in the flare is fine.

When you try a carrier landing, and we all know that you will, keep in mind that you will need a significantly wider abeam distance. The F-4E lacks the BLC flaps of the Navy versions, so you’ll be flying a much faster approach turn with a wider turn radius. The LSO’s will be nervously eyeing the net. Good luck.

Single engine approaches are simple. Only real change is you a little faster, at 17 units, the yaw due to asymmetric thrust is easily controlled with rudder, even in burner. Fly a straight in approach using gentle bank angles and you’ll be fine. It helps to get rid of most of your fuel before landing with an engine that is “uninterested in further toil”.

The F-4E also has a nifty flight director on it’s remarkable AJB-7 attitude indicator that makes ILS approaches a piece of cake. ILS freq is set on the pilot’s left console. The controls for what drives the needles are on the lower right side of the instrument panel. Give it a whirl, flight directors are amazing.

After touchdown, lower the nose, pop the chute, hold the stick aft, and enjoy Jester’s compliments on your landing as you roll out. 

I bet that you land it on the first try.

When clear of the runway, there is nothing like opening the canopies and enjoying the sound of two J-79’s while enjoying some fresh Phantom Air. Soak up the satisfaction of a flight well-flown as you taxi back to the ramp. You just experienced what it is like to fly an iconic fighter that continues to menace the skies even today. 

Damn, that was fun.

Maybe that's why Jester loves to say, “We have the best job in the world.”

 

 

 

absolute goldmine of info!!! thanks alot

 

[eatthis]

technically iv landed it every time so far (apart from hitting a bloody mosque on short final to beirut!) although i have  managed to knock myself unconscious once and possibly jester too! on seperate occasions (he was suspiciously quiet) i havnt actually broken it yet though somehow!

[eatthis]

On 5/17/2024 at 6:07 AM, Art-J said:

The only problem with it is - for us dark theme forum users it displays as black text over almost-black background, making only the "welcome" sentence visible. Vic, could you please edit the post using unformatted text please?

how do i activate dark mode?

 

[Art-J]

Scroll to the very bottom of the page, there's a "theme" button over there, between language and privacy policy.

[bfr]

On 5/27/2024 at 10:23 PM, Phantom12 said:

To discuss everyones favorite forbidden topic: Anyone tried a bunch of carrier landings yet? The airplane handles nicely around the boat but try as I might I seem to hook skip or bolter everytime. Is there some trick to it or is the hook setup differently for the USAF runway arresting gear? Onspeed AoA seems to be more or less the same as for the navy versions.

I just had my first crack at it, as is the tradition with any plane not meant to land on a carrier. First pass was a bolter, second pass I landed. Looking on the track I got the first approach badly wrong and all the weight went onto the nose after initial touchdown, so no shock it didn't bite.  Second pass was the 1 wire (I wasn't looking for points, just to live!)

It actually went better than by debut attempt with the Strike Eagle where I caught a wire first time but the pilot blacked out when the nose came down and the nose wheel wouldn't retract when I left again.  Getting back off the deck with a long run-up was also remarkably easy (had refuelled to about 40% too) and the jet appeared to make it back to land in showroom condition still.

 

[bfr]

One thing that has been bugging me is whether there is a way to latch the NWS steering on or off? Fair enough if its unrealistic for it to be always on, but it'd certainly be a bit more convenient if the option exists.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

10 hours ago, bfr said:

One thing that has been bugging me is whether there is a way to latch the NWS steering on or off? Fair enough if its unrealistic for it to be always on, but it'd certainly be a bit more convenient if the option exists.

I bind NWS for the gray switch of my warthog throttle, the boat switch for A-10 controls.

[LG_Barons]

Just for info. On takeoff do not use nosewheel steering. Use differential  breaking to maintain centerline. At around 80 knots the rudder becomes effektive. also for landing, after deploying the chute use again differential breaking for directional control. 

On take off, all Stab Augs on, AFCS always off. (I never used it anyway.)

For ACM, Roll Aug comes off. As technique so Slats out! (that is the middle position of the Flaps Down - Slats out switch) High AOA maneuvering always use the rudder, never the ailerons. 

Because of the adverse yaw effect, ailerons with the spoilers will get you out of control. 

There is a maneuver called High AoA Roll, where you can train you optimum use of the 25 Units. Thats where the F-4 performes best, regardless of Speed. You need to learn to fly the F-4 by "ear" i.e listening to the AoA tone. Not to watch the speed indicator. 

Also for landing, fly on "on Tone" 19.2 Units AoA. Use the speed indicator for intial guidance.

As technique 145+ 2x the "gas" + 2knots for your grandma. For example. 5000 lbs fuel left appraoch speed will be roughliy 157 Kias, but as i said fly the steady tone at 19.2 units AoA. For single engine it is 155+ 2x gas. (17 Units).

No flap will be 155+2 x gas and no slat 175 + 2x gas.

Never forget your Granny... 2 Knots..

 

[bfr]

3 hours ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

I bind NWS for the gray switch of my warthog throttle, the boat switch for A-10 controls.

I assume thats an 'always on' switch? (I don't own the Warthog). Makes sense though in the absence of a bindable latching option. I'll look into it.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

37 minutes ago, bfr said:

I assume thats an 'always on' switch?

On a warthog throttle (I used to have one myself) the boat switch is a 3-position switch that stays in place at whichever position you set. So you could indeed use it for an always-on NWS if you so please.

[Rokkett]

15 hours ago, bfr said:

One thing that has been bugging me is whether there is a way to latch the NWS steering on or off? Fair enough if its unrealistic for it to be always on, but it'd certainly be a bit more convenient if the option exists.

On my Winwing F16EX stick, I use the secondary trigger which you can flip up and flip down. Each position is a key press, so I flip down to engage NWS, flip up to disengage. 

[Nealius]

A toggle option like what the A-4 mod has in Special Options would be nice. Press and hold is starting to cause carpal-tunnel-like pain in my stick hand.