waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[SignorMagnifico]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:34 AM, NineLine said:

This is not something to do with DCS, DCS Updates, etc. This is something within the F-15E code which we have identified and are looking for a solution. Thanks

Does this mean that you have the source code? 

[Nightdare]

14 hours ago, afnav130 said:

Sure it is, if one party is clearly in the wrong. If both parties have part of the <profanity> sandwich then it gets hard. If I know I am right, then I don't care what they say, I know I am right. 

 

Great, so you -according to your interpretation of the facts- are right

Now go to the other party and say they were wrong, what are they gonna do about it? Agree with you? Stop doing whatever it is that's wrong? Pay back indemnities?

 

14 hours ago, afnav130 said:

You don't need 7 years of law school if someone is clearly in the wrong. That should be fairly easy to figure out.

 

Prove it!

 

[PhantomHans]

15 minutes ago, primus_TR said:

 

Or don't. 

Not paying them is working out great.

Hey maybe just stop paying all the 3rd party devs amirite?  Everybody should work for free.

[LorenLuke]

3 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

Or don't. 

Not paying them is working out great.

Hey maybe just stop paying all the 3rd party devs amirite?  Everybody should work for free.

If those Razbam devs want to be paid, they should probably talk to the Razbam's payroll/CEO.

[shinobi61]

tbh i wish there was just a definate end to it all now, so we can move on. Fed up preaying everyday that av8b wont be trashed aswel

[Horns]

If I am ED (clearly I'm not) my working assumption is that Razbam are headed for administration/bankruptcy no matter what happens in court. If I wait for an agreement or judgement to decide how much I owe them after adjusting for the other issues, I can pay them exactly what I owe and keep all of the remainder due me.

If I pay Razbam what their earnings I've retained and then claim back what I'm owed and they go into bankruptcy, chances are I only get a share of my due.

My conclusion would be that handing them the amount I've retained means flushing money down the toilet. The choice from ED's point of view is easy, even if that sucks for us.

[Nightdare]

9 hours ago, Blackeye said:

No they're distinctively different things things - one may lead to the other but that's it.

 

A threat to your company or your product is a threat to your IP and vice versa, ED not taking action with theft, abuse, mismanagement, disputes, etc, etc, will only lead to more problems and more risk of losing valuable assets

 

9 hours ago, Blackeye said:

I'm amazed how people read one thing and then construct things in their head that author also "must" think and then go on rants about their imagined stuff instead of discussing things that were actually said.

 

Because you are not thinking further than your own keyboard

Tell me honestly: are you actually in a company environment? or ar you still in school? If the former: do you have any experience or knowledge with IP, contracts or disputes?

Because you really come across as someone who has absolutely no clue

 

I'll say it again, just in case you still haven't realized it yet

ED not "minding the shop" or acquiescing to RB, just to keep customers like you happy, can have far reaching, detrimental, consequences

Consequences YOU then will inevitably be a 'victim' of, much more than you are now

 

9 hours ago, Blackeye said:

We'd still see the stopped development of RB modules with them breaking without any effort to fix them and expect a reasonable explanation. Not sure they could've provide a satisfying one without straight up lying. In any case we DO know and we're talking about what ED does or not given the actual situation.

*bold text: ...welcome to marketing!

 

Yes, companies will lie to keep consumer trust, because telling the truth will show just how much brand loyalty customers have: None!

Just look at the current situation, people stopped supporting ED because they demand the problem fixed, as if that's easy, as if that's proven to be ED's fault (not forgetting people just want ED to risk all IP protection to cater to their entitlement)

And that would be no different than if they stated the problem when it arose

 

As for ED still selling the F-15, there are probably ver good (legal) reasons to why that is, reasons you and I are not privy to, and No, you are not as important as you think you are

26 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

Not paying them is working out great.

 

So you have no problem paying people that are abusing your property?

 

If the mechanic doesn't fix your car, do you still pay them?

No it won't work out immediately since your car is still broken, but fine, you go pay for the repair anyway, I'm sure that'll magically make the problem go away

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

3 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

 

As for ED still selling the F-15, there are probably ver good (legal) reasons to why that is, reasons you and I are not privy to, and No, you are not as important as you think you are

One reason might be potential back pay owed to RB once things are settled. If they can sort things out, come to an agreement, and continue payment, they may just want that potential payola they would have accrued in the meantime.

[LorenLuke]

10 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

One reason might be potential back pay owed to RB once things are settled. If they can sort things out, come to an agreement, and continue payment, they may just want that potential payola they would have accrued in the meantime.

Which is likely less now, given the deluge of F15E refunds.

[corvey]

[afnav130]

1 hour ago, Nightdare said:

 

Great, so you -according to your interpretation of the facts- are right

Now go to the other party and say they were wrong, what are they gonna do about it? Agree with you? Stop doing whatever it is that's wrong? Pay back indemnities?

 

 

Prove it!

 

If I said I paid you and you said, um no you didn't. All I have to do is find the bank transaction which was completed, show that document  to you and thats that. 

 

Do you need a lawyer for that?

[Blackeye]

3 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

A threat to your company or your product is a threat to your IP and vice versa, ED not taking action with theft, abuse, mismanagement, disputes, etc, etc, will only lead to more problems and more risk of losing valuable assets

A threat to your IP is something pretty specific, i.e. losing the rights to it (or to some extent theft) and separate from other stuff you can affect a company. Specifically the claim I objected to was "ED cannot pay RB because that might lose them their IP rights" which is not how that works. Paying for something that is not directly related to an IP dispute is not an endorsement and thus should have no bearing on any IP disputes. And again I'm not saying ED should not take any action at all - no clue where you got idea from.

 

12 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

Because you are not thinking further than your own keyboard. Tell me honestly: are you actually in a company environment? or ar you still in school? If the former: do you have any experience or knowledge with IP, contracts or disputes? Because you really come across as someone who has absolutely no clue

I'll say it again, just in case you still haven't realized it yet. ED not "minding the shop" or acquiescing to RB, just to keep customers like you happy, can have far reaching, detrimental, consequences. Consequences YOU then will inevitably be a 'victim' of, much more than you are now

And again with those assumptions... instead of actually reading what is said you seem to have a picture in your mind, draw conclusions from that and then instead of explaining your position or rationale you jump to conclusions and attack the person.

I've never said or hinted that I want ED to roll over and pay whatever RB wants, nor that doing anything and everything for short term customer happiness is a great idea. Maybe reset that idea in your head and read what I'm actually saying, instead of imagining what I must think based on your mental image. If it helps I'm closer to retirement than school.

 

21 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

Yes, companies will lie to keep consumer trust, because telling the truth will show just how much brand loyalty customers have: None!

Maybe the customers you think of have no loyalty because they've been lied to too much - personally I'm not a big fan of being lied to.

And just because many companies lie about stuff doesn't meant as a customer I have to be happy about it and keep quiet.

 

27 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

Just look at the current situation, people stopped supporting ED because they demand the problem fixed, as if that's easy, as if that's proven to be ED's fault (not forgetting people just want ED to risk all IP protection to cater to their entitlement)

Again they wouldn't risk all IP protection - provided that the F15 itself is not the product of the infringement, which I think is fairly safe to assume. If you have actual legal knowledge to the contrary feel free to share and explain, but no more "anything is a risk to everything else" if you please.

Maybe my mind set is not tribal enough to pick a company and support or not support them, I just feel this might haven been handled better and ultimately it IS up the ED to resolve the problem with their customers.

[Oban]

9 minutes ago, afnav130 said:

If I said I paid you and you said, um no you didn't. All I have to do is find the bank transaction which was completed, show that document  to you and thats that. 

 

Do you need a lawyer for that?

Oh if only life was that simple !!

If you invoiced me for work completed, but I found out that you did something illegal that put my business at risk, and I refused to honour that invoice, due to this,then good luck trying to get me to pay you without going through a lawyer.

[PhantomHans]

Honestly at this point anymore I just can't wait for Razbam to officially go bankrupt and close their doors so I can watch the fireworks.

I'd like all of my Razbam modules, which were sold to me WITHOUT disclosing that there was a dispute with the manufacturer and support could end at any moment, refunded to my original payment method.

 

TBH the only thing that would make me happier than that, would be having never bought anything at all DCS related but, oh well, such is life.

[Maduce]

Question, if I get a refund (store credit), can I use that store credit on any module, including 3rd party modules? If so, does that 3rd party still get paid for that module (their portion)? Just asking, I have not requested a refund yet. 

[Shimmergloom667]

59 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

TBH the only thing that would make me happier than that, would be having never bought anything at all DCS related but, oh well, such is life.

Man, you guys really like to lay it on thick, right?

[Shot]

Just flew one round the F15. The experience really detilerated quickly. Need to launch DCS, then change the  Windows date back a week to enjoy the module. If you change the date first, DCS will complain.

As all other radars are still working OK, I'm really excitedly waiting what has caused this. As there was no DCS update in between, its really strange. 

[maxTRX]

21 minutes ago, Shot said:

..As there was no DCS update in between, its really strange. 

You mean other then this one tiny 'unlisted' one?

[NineLine]

20 minutes ago, oldcrusty said:

You mean other then this one tiny 'unlisted' one?

There was no update when the radar broke.

[MustangSally]

3 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

Honestly at this point anymore I just can't wait for Razbam to officially go bankrupt and close their doors so I can watch the fireworks.

I'd like all of my Razbam modules, which were sold to me WITHOUT disclosing that there was a dispute with the manufacturer and support could end at any moment, refunded to my original payment method.

 

TBH the only thing that would make me happier than that, would be having never bought anything at all DCS related but, oh well, such is life.

Off to play minecraft then?

[NineLine]

3 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

Honestly at this point anymore I just can't wait for Razbam to officially go bankrupt and close their doors so I can watch the fireworks.

I'd like all of my Razbam modules, which were sold to me WITHOUT disclosing that there was a dispute with the manufacturer and support could end at any moment, refunded to my original payment method.

 

TBH the only thing that would make me happier than that, would be having never bought anything at all DCS related but, oh well, such is life.

We can't give you a refund in this thread, please open a support ticket if you purchased ALL your RAZBAM modules recently there is a chance they may consider a refund. Otherwise, it will only the the SE for store credit right now. Thanks.

[Heyjax]

I've submitted a support ticket and reached out twice to ED so far with no response.  Any suggestions?

[NineLine]

4 minutes ago, Heyjax said:

I've submitted a support ticket and reached out twice to ED so far with no response.  Any suggestions?

Patience, we are processing a LOT of refund requests right now, they have to be done manually so they take time. Sorry. 

[exhausted]

On 6/14/2024 at 5:31 PM, Oban said:

Silence 100% is NOT your enemy !! Running your mouth off and risk saying something that can, and often gets taken out of context, silence is also not an admission of guilt either.

Lawyers are smart creatures, I've never ever heard of a case where a lawyer has told his client to engage with the public, hold news conferences, hell, open the floodgates and tell them what you had for dinner !!

Lawyers are there to stop you from making matters worse, nothing suspicious about it, it's smart. Nobody is hiding behind lawyers either, there's a LOT at stake here for both parties, shooting ones mouth off in open forums is not the smartest of things to do.

Silence on an issue can be construed as evidence of liability, though. He's right -- you can take the pieces, and look at them, and get a reasonable picture at what's happening. Razbam is taking down the links on its website for DCS product support and it looks like whatever ED did to piss them off is going to be permanent. The negotiations are probably for how much ED gets to keep and has to support going forward.

[exhausted]

On 6/14/2024 at 7:16 PM, Mizzy said:

A shame Razbam lawyers didn't tell them to keep their mouth shut !!

It seems like there was so much time passing with no resolution, so it may have actually made one of the parties start to negotiate again.