waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Esac_mirmidon]

What i've said, kindness between people around here is a very rare item. 

I wish we in the end can be some kind of children who can shake hands at least and treat others as fellows. Hey we have a Big dispute over here but in the meantime just be kind, dont take away from us just the option to fly modules we created.

But yes, sad but true, business first. What i was thinking about. Thanks for pointing me into the reality 

Edited August 8, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

dont take away from us just the option to fly modules we created

ED took away something from you?

[Esac_mirmidon]

Just read what i've said. I didnt created anything.

Im talking about RB developers. ED removed the free access to his own creations. They must pay now just to fly what they have developed.

Cant imagine anything more unkind.

Edited August 8, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[draconus]

5 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

ED removed the free access to his own creations.

Even if true, so what? They have their reasons. It's as interesting as watching celebrities' lifes.

[Esac_mirmidon]

No point to keep arguing.

Thanks for your thoughts. I've just expresing mines.

Edited August 8, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[primus_TR]

7 hours ago, Brk195 said:

Any official word on the recent posts by Cpt smiley?

Isn't that the dude who deleted all of his posts on ED forums lest users could benefit from his posts? lol 

[Sinclair]

Friendly reminder that while all those legal talkings are taking place, buyers of the broken module are left abandoned in the middle of the road without a substitute car, so to speak.

Yeah, keep talking, its working great.

[draconus]

10 minutes ago, Sinclair said:

buyers of the broken module are left abandoned

Which one?

[LorenLuke]

8 minutes ago, Sinclair said:

Friendly reminder that while all those legal talkings are taking place, buyers of the broken module are left abandoned in the middle of the road without a substitute car, so to speak.

Yeah, keep talking, its working great.

Reminder that them removing the product from their store or changing the listing without notice, approval, or some other legal mumbo jumbo requiring RB or some specific outside entity's involvement could possibly be a breach of the parts of the contract between ED and RazBam that still stand. Furthermore, given all the refunds, should there be a reasonable conclusion reached and withheld funds disbursed, I feel like RB might want there to be more sales of their product, not less.

[Dallenbach]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Sinclair:

Friendly reminder that while all those legal talkings are taking place, buyers of the broken module are left abandoned in the middle of the road without a substitute car, so to speak.

Yeah, keep talking, its working great.

I own MiG 19, M2000, Av8N, F15E and they all work like they did before Razbam threw in the towel. Strange statement from you.

[Brk195]

Quite a few people have expressed different opinions on this, so I'll respond to them all here.

I'm not expecting ED or Razbam to comment on individual bits of news or statements from people I believe that's an unreasonable expectation.

But regardless of what you think about the statements or the man behind them, this is still a concerning development and the claim of a complete break down of communication being reiterated without anyone from ED refuting this should be concerning to all of us no matter who you support in this unfortunate case.

So if someone from ED or others are willing to shed some light on this development then I'll ask and take that otherwise we're still just here waiting anxiously.

Edited August 8, 2024 by Brk195

[DUSTY]

7 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

Just read what i've said. I didnt created anything.

Im talking about RB developers. ED removed the free access to his own creations. They must pay now just to fly what they have developed.

Cant imagine anything more unkind.

 

Absolutely, the pettiness is unreal.

I wonder how ED is going to continue to justify their lack of comm when you read things like:

Quote

"RAZBAM devs also pointed out that there hasn't been any real communications between both management teams for quite some time, which directly contradicts what ED CMs keep claiming on the official forums."

What's EDs endgame here?

[NineLine]

Guys, we are not going to play back and forth with people chatting all over the internet. When there is real news to share we will. Until then all we have is in the first post. Thanks.

[deadghostjt]

8 hours ago, Sinclair said:

Friendly reminder that while all those legal talkings are taking place, buyers of the broken module are left abandoned in the middle of the road without a substitute car, so to speak.

Yeah, keep talking, its working great.

ED should actually give for the time Razbam situation is unsolved 1 free module of choice as a extended free trial licence access for the lenght of 1:1 for every month this situation drags on to every F-15E owner who are keeping the module to match the harm being done to customer. Free trial licences are like free coffee to angry customer they actually don't cost you anything but makes customer happier and shows you care about them while you deal the customer service problem. This could mean one would get to choose for example MI-24 Hind module for 8 months free trial period if RB situation drags on 8 months. After situation is solved Hind free trial ends after 8 months and maybe ED could also offer the chosen module for 50% sale price to keep.

Edited August 8, 2024 by deadghostjt

[Neil Gardner]

On 8/8/2024 at 8:21 AM, Esac_mirmidon said:

Trying to be at the very least "kind" with developers, having just a simple gesture of good will until negotiations are fulfilled do no harm

Not far ago RB developers and ED were working to make DCS better for us, sharing the same "passion and support".

In the end is all about kind, respect, passion and love for simulators.

Its hard to find this days something like that when ED takes away from developers even the option to fly modules they have created for all of us.

Just imagine the situation, the feelings when beeing a developer and running DCS just to fly your own creations and this is taked away.

Please, whoever is in charge on ED about this decisions, PLEASE, just for a second, think about each other as human beeings, with feelings, and the same passion about DCS.

Please set your heart frequency on the same Page and resolve this dispute as former fellows you were not so long ago.

Please.

 

 

Absolutely.

[aaronwhite]

On 8/7/2024 at 1:10 PM, Schmidtfire said:

Acting to protect IP and enforce contractual obligations is understandable. But at the end of the day, this dispute affected updates and support of 4 modules.
Products that I (and many others) has paid a lot of money for. From my perspective, It's hard to see how going after a small company like Razbam instead of keeping
the customers happy, is good move. I hope there are very real and very serious reasons behind Eagle Dynamics choice of actions. Because I liked flying those modules.
Only time will tell I guess.  

Sure, but if someone violates your contract you two have, and you don't enforce it, or worse, you try to enforce it and the other party refuses to comply...you're kind of stuck. 
If you just let it continue your contract is worth nothing. I highly doubt anyone wants to affect their customer base, especially with the F-15E being so new and so popular.
But if there's legal issues, and the two management groups aren't able to come to an agreement, or there's no agreement that would even work within the framework of their contracts, then you're stuck settling it in court. 
 

[Pipe]

On 8/8/2024 at 8:47 AM, Brk195 said:

Quite a few people have expressed different opinions on this, so I'll respond to them all here.

I'm not expecting ED or Razbam to comment on individual bits of news or statements from people I believe that's an unreasonable expectation.

But regardless of what you think about the statements or the man behind them, this is still a concerning development and the claim of a complete break down of communication being reiterated without anyone from ED refuting this should be concerning to all of us no matter who you support in this unfortunate case.

So if someone from ED or others are willing to shed some light on this development then I'll ask and take that otherwise we're still just here waiting anxiously.

 

This, seems like one party may be laughing all the way to the bank. They really dont have to do anything..

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Pipe said:

This, seems like one party may be laughing all the way to the bank. They really dont have to do anything..

 

That seems pretty unlikely.  IMHO this has been a complete disaster for ED as much if not more than it has been for Razbam.  I suspect that a pretty decent chunk of module sales trickle in over the months and years following release (unlike some games where the vast majority on release day or right after).  My best guess is that sales of SE and the other Razbam modules are down a substantial amount in light of the dispute, and that hurts everyone.  On top of that, I’m sure ED is none too happy about the impact on its reputation and consumer/ partner confidence. Finally I imagine that accounting rules would prohibit ED from actually doing much of anything with the money other than hold it in an account — even if the amount is disputed it’s still a known liability and they can’t just spend it.  
 

In sum, I believe neither ED nor Razbam is enjoying this situation at all and it’s a bad look for everyone involved.  

[Horns]

ED gives Razbam free access to DCS so they can work on their modules. Razbam have said very clearly they won't be working on their modules until this is settled. I'm surprised it's taken this long to revoke their access. If a gym hires a yoga academy so the gym can offer yoga classes, that yoga academy's staff will obviously get access to the gym to do that, and under those circumstances the gym probably wouldn't mind if the yoga academy's staff use the facilities to stay in shape. If there is a dispute between the gym and the yoga academy, and that yoga academy informs the business they won't be giving classes until the dispute is resolved, it stands to reason access to the gym would be revoked until the academy resumes offering classes. If that means the yoga academy's staff can't use the gym for their own fitness during the dispute that's unfortunate, but that's not why they have been given access to the gym to begin with.

Edited August 10, 2024 by Horns
Removed comment about Cpt Smiley

[schmiefel]

1 hour ago, Horns said:

If that means the yoga academy's staff can't use the gym for their own fitness during the dispute that's unfortunate, but that's not why they have been given access to the gym to begin with.

Well but in case of DCS the access to the 'gym' (the DCS base system) is free for everyone but the yoga academy stuff has its own training devices (the modules they created) put in there and now their access to their own stuff is revoked from the gym owner.

[SignorMagnifico]

Four months and still no update, resolution, or new official announcements. 

[Koziolek]

1 hour ago, SignorMagnifico said:

Four months and still no update, resolution, or new official announcements. 

Which is quite expected. l would become impatient after 2 years. It's in the hands of lawyers now, so don't expect resolution any time sooner.

[Pipe]

2 hours ago, SignorMagnifico said:

Four months and still no update, resolution, or new official announcements. 

Unoffically there is no dialogue between ED and RB....

[SignorMagnifico]

3 minutes ago, Pipe said:

Unoffically there is no dialogue between ED and RB....

Yes, I’m aware of the unofficial word. 

 

1 hour ago, Koziolek said:

Which is quite expected. l would become impatient after 2 years. It's in the hands of lawyers now, so don't expect resolution any time sooner.

Or expect any resolution at all. Can’t get to a resolution with no dialogue.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, SignorMagnifico said:

Or expect any resolution at all. Can’t get to a resolution with no dialogue.

Not necessarily.  If each of the parties' lawyers are talking to each other, there may not be direct dialog between ED and RB management even if progress is being made between the lawyers.  Alternatively, if one side's lawyer currently has the pen on drafting some kind of settlement agreement there may not be any active dialog while drafting is in progress. 

Edited August 10, 2024 by wombat778