reported CBU-97 inaccuracy, CCRP/CCIP

[Rac3rX]

Bombs fall about a mile off target in both CCRP and CCIP (post designate).

CBU97_bug_CCIP.trk CBU97_bug_CCRP.trk

[marcoacv]

Same here

[Vortex225]

Assuming this is the same bug, my CCIP and CCRP drops were far too late this evening. I think I observed the same behavior.

[Dracula2]

Same here. The CCRP is about a mile too long. This basically makes the CCRP in F-16 unusable

[Lord Vader]

Hi @Rac3rX

This one is a bit hard to understand.

I can indeed observe what you say in both your tracks. However, when I try to reproduce it in a fresh new mission on my side, I can't see the bug, the bombs hit as expected.

Given that there were some important and deep changes to these weapons in terms of fuses and burst altitudes, it's possible that older missions might not work properly. 

Can I ask you and the other repliers to try a fresh mission and confirm this bug? 

Thank you for your precious cooperation.

[Rac3rX]

I actually made that mission fresh, just to show the bug. And after finding the bug, I did a repair, just to make sure it wasn't something I did.

Speaking of burst alt., I saw on the cntrl page that the burst alt. is about 5k agl. And it won't let me adjust it

Edited May 24, 2024 by Rac3rX

[Dracula2]

I can confirm this occurs in a new mission as well using, F-16 not only for all types of CBUs, but also for Mk82s and Mk82SE in CCRP mode. Basically, the bombs always fell about 1 mile of their intended target, after the correct CCRP release, using the normal/usual CCRP procedure.

[Rac3rX]

If it helps, I'm using the Steam version of DCS. Maybe there is a version difference with the update 

[Dracula2]

I am using the non-Steam, ED version (formerly Beta), latest version.

[Lord Vader]

Weird. I will ask for more testing to see if we can catch this particular one. I just tested again in yet another mission and again couldn't reproduce this.

[TobiasA]

Do one in post-designate CCIP with a little crosswind.

As for CCRP, it is similar. If you deviate from 1G after pickle, it will most probably miss.

I am not anywhere near the computer unfortunately. But it actually happens very often. 

[Vortex225]

2 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

Weird. I will ask for more testing to see if we can catch this particular one. I just tested again in yet another mission and again couldn't reproduce this.

Thanks for looking into this, Lord Vader. Per your request, I did some additional testing today; I created a brand new mission in the editor on DCS: Caucasus this afternoon to test this behavior more carefully.

I was able to duplicate the issue (i.e., late release/missing long) in the three attached tracks (i.e., cbu_87_long, cbu_97_long, and cbu_87ccip_long). I also tested the CBU-105 and standard MK-82s, but both of those are working correctly for me. Please note that this mission was created from scratch with default map and fuse settings after the most recent beta patch using an ED preset CAS loadout for the Viper. I'm using a standalone version of DCS that was originally a DCS open beta standalone install that is now fully updated. 

To summarize, the bug I believe I'm seeing is that CBU-87s and CBU-97s are landing long (late drop) when released in CCRP, CCIP, or DTOS modes. I first observed this behavior in the Nevada quick mission for CBU-87/CBU-97 last night, and then I more carefully reproduced it today in a fresh mission on the DCS: Caucasus map with default settings for the map, editor, and fuses. GPS/INS weapons appear to work just fine, and standard Mk-82 also work fine too. 

Hope this helps with testing!

cbu_87_long.trk cbu_87ccip_long.trk cbu_97_long.trk

[Nezih]

If you adjust CBU97's fuse settings in the mission editor, you succes to hit the target. But why, if you leave these settings as default and re-make the in-flight bomb settings, the new settings do not take effect at all. CBU97 does not hit the target and disappears.

[Moonshine]

remember, the only fuze you can adjust its settings in the jet is the FMU-152 (which the CBUs dont have). for every other fuze you need to select the desired fuze settings via the ME or via the F-10 ground crew menu.
then in order to get correct release parameters based on the fuze settings of the bomb, you need to tell your jet what the fuze settings of the loaded bombs are by adjusting the values in the SMS. all you do is tell the jet what parameters the bomb has, you can not change the bombs parameters by changing the SMS values. and until we get some sort of weapon delivery planner and DTC you will have to do it manually.

 

Edited May 26, 2024 by Moonshine

[Mivina]

Also can the default airburst altitude please be set to something more sensible than 300ft so the bomb doesn't become useless if you forget to change it manually?

[macedk]

IMO default should always work, I think most just jump in and go hunting. It is fair enough if we are planning some special scenario, then we then have to tinker. .

 

[Chain_1]

I noticed the same thing today in the CBU-87/97 mission.  After reading this, I went into the mission editor and opened that mission.  I opened the fuse menu for only the 87s, changed nothing, and hit okay.  After loading the mission, the 87s hit as expected, but the 97s hit way long.  So for some reason, the old missions (at least the air starts) don't like the new fuse menu.  Both munitions also hit as expected if fuse settings are changed as long as you hit okay in the fuse menu.  After saving the mission, both work as expected.

[Sylosis]

I'm jumping in the F16 after a long hiatus and I'm trying the first mission of the Weasels over Syria campaign, which asks for a CCIP CBU-87 drop over a SAM. They always hit further away than what I aim for. Reading this post, am I to understand I've wasted 3 hours trying to figure out what I do wrong when this would actually be a bug?

[Lord Vader]

Hello all.

Tried very much to reproduce this issue, seems rather erratic enough to present to internal analysis.

I've raised it internally, let's see if we can find the culprit. 

For the time being, make sure your settings for the bombs are correctly setup in Mission Editor and it corresponds with the aircraft own BA setting.

Also @skywalker22, in your track setting a 300ft BA is unrealistic. The very minimum is 700ft, the "acceptable" minimum is 900ft but for these weapons the default BA is 1500ft.

[Sylosis]

Hi all, 

I've been having issues with cluster bombs. They fall long from where I aim. I noticed the BA was set at nearly 5000 ft (4950ft or close to that). I first noticed it with the first campaign mission "Weasel over Syria" and it was set like that, so I thought it was that specific mission. But then I jumped in the F16 cluster bomb training mission and it was also the same. 

Also, I was under the impression the BA setting was AGL elevation, so it shouldn't change depending on the map/target location, right? 

[Hoggorm]

Hello,

Sometimes the bomb drop, sometimes it does not. I was hoping you could tell me what I do wrong. I have the following issues when trying to toss bomb Mk82s and CBUs:

Bomb do not drop at all.

CBUs do not hit near target but land long.

The settings I use are REL ANG 0. (Bombs both do and do not drop in this setting)

I've tried to press the release button at the first indication of the release circle (that appears 2 sec before pull up), when it flashes and when it is removed.

When is the correct time to press the bomb release button? When is it too early and when is it too late?

Do I pull up too hard? Sometimes I see over 5-6 Gs

Is the REL ANG relevant at all? Any other settings that must be checked?

Why do my CBUs fall too long?

[Rac3rX]

There's a reported bug with the release timing on the CBU's, making them fall long. Make sure you have the flight-path marker on the bomb fall line and not the boresight cross. That could be why sometimes it releases and sometimes it doesn't.

Edited May 30, 2024 by Rac3rX

[Hoggorm]

16 minutes ago, Rac3rX said:

There's a reported bug with the release timing on the CBU's, making them fall long. Make sure you have the flight-path marker on the bomb fall line and not the boresight cross. That could be why sometimes it releases and sometimes it doesn't.

 

Thank you Rac3rX.

Hopefully the bug will be fixed soon.
I do keep the FPV on the bomb fall line but it seems like it never reach the solution cue when I pull upwards…

[Rac3rX]

5-6 g's are excessive, btw. It should be 4g's MAX. 5-6 bleeds speed, putting you out of parameters for the toss cue. You'll end up vertical, too far from the target with your current slower velocity. There's a line that races up the toss cue; chase it. Put the FPM right behind it

[CrustyJim]

Not sure if this is related, but I also experienced challenges dropping cbu-97's in CCIP from F16 after latest patch. Both in sticky releases (won't drop on valid cue) and dropping long. This was from an airstart CBU training mission. 

Then I noticed that the SMS page listed the BA as 4919 ft and timing as 0.12 seconds. That seemed odd. What seemed even stranger was that I could not edit the fusing options in the plane at all. It would ignore any changes to the fusing parameters made in the cockpit.

So I opened the mission in the ME, manually edited the fusing options in the ME to what I wanted, saved the mission and ran it again. Voila problem solved. Consistent drops now and in general area of aimpoint (allowing for a bit of wind drift).

So there seems to be an issue with older airstart missions with CBU's that can only be fixed by editing your fusing options in the loadout screen in the ME.