AGM-45 Shrike Quick Guide by Klarsnow - updated June 5th 2024

[IronMike]

The original post has been edited/updated to include a detailed description of the "WRCS AGM-45" Mode. Thank you, Klarsnow!

[Hobel]

I have a question, is it intentional that the shrike loses steering ability when it slows down?

my observation.
it starts to happen at 900 knots and the shrike-45 can no longer use its full 3G
the whole thing degrades further and further around ~500knots the missle is almost dead and the control inputs are so weak that corrections are no longer worth mentioning.

the result is that the loft mode has hardly any use even if the missle comes into the target area and only becomes active at 18,000 feet, it is usually already too slow and can no longer steer towards the target and does not hit, with the direct mode it is completely different the missle points directly at the target and if the missle slows down and the control inputs become less, the whole thing is no longer so dramatic because the missle already points at the target.

here's an example, all shrikes that hit are "direct mode" and those that miss are loft, the leeway you have with direct mode  is significantly greater and therefore more likely to end in a direct hit

loft Direct.acmi

Edited June 5, 2024 by Hobel

[AdrianL]

6 hours ago, IronMike said:

edited/updated

Will this be added to the manual?

Edited June 5, 2024 by AdrianL

[MBot]

An interesting observation I made. Shrike seems only to guide if the target has any missiles left. If the SAM is out of ammo, it will still lock you up but apparently doesn't go all the way for a Shrike to home on to. If the SAM is engaging you with its last missile it will retain the "weapon guidance" lock afterwards (and any Shrike will still home) until you break the SAM TR lock once. Any subsequent lock will then not be sufficient anymore for the Shrike to home.

Tested with SA-3 (where there is an audible difference in the Shrike audio between the SAM having any missiles left or not) and SA-6 (where there is no audible difference in the Shrike audio).

Edited June 5, 2024 by MBot

[HB_Painter]

Am 5.6.2024 um 15:49 schrieb AdrianL:

Will this be added to the manual?

 

Yes this will come in the next days to the Manual

[Temetre]

Am 25.5.2024 um 19:49 schrieb IronMike:

Think of it like this: what is in the table above, has worked at least once. Minus the SA-3, which in that table is not confirmed. You probably need to chuck 12 or so shrikes at it, and then one will guide. But yours may also be falling short, etc. It depends on many things.

If the first sparrow doesnt work, try throwing a dozen more. Sounds about right 

[Oldcrow Jr. 62]

On 5/26/2024 at 11:03 PM, PhantomHans said:

Invulnerable and unlimited ammo, coming in straight from 20,000 ft so I don't stop getting a good lock on me, 26 Shrikes to kill the SA-3 track radar. 

 

These are worthless trash right now.  They'll guide towards the general direction of the radar but them actually hitting it seems like a matter of luck.

 

They are a basic earlier version of the Harm, Standard and newer ARM's. Basically, they were AIM-7 rocket bodies with a different seeker attached. So therefore, not really a dedicated, from scratch designed Anti-Radiation Missile. So yes, you will probably fire off a lot of them to hit an emitter. There is no GPS, no Memory and no target locating coordinate system on board in case the emitter goes silent, so again not a precision weapon and will need a lot of shots to hit it unless very close and well within engagement parameters. This isn't modern day with solid state, CPU driven computer high tech sophisticated technology, just a basic motor, warhead and basic flight guidance.

Another aspect that is forgotten is that compared to newer technology which we use in DCS with Harms and other newer versions of the HARM (which we are spoiled with) is that realistically, it's not necessary to kill the emitter for a weasel to be effective. In many cases, just forcing the radar to stop emitting is as good as an emitter kill during this era of combat. Even in today's world, forcing an emitter off the air is effective, unless it's optically guided.

In Vietnam, once the North learned that Weasels were around, many times they would shut down all emitters until they were out of the area or emit for a short duration for "quick looks" and then shut back down. Remember, most of the North's SAM doctrine was also controlled from a higher HQ where multiple sites were controlled and coordinated with the NVAF command.

My dad (now deceased), was an USAF EWO during his combat tour to Vietnam in 1969, used to tell me when I asked him, said that it was a game of Cat and Mouse. Sometimes they'd sacrifice a few radars to get the Weasels attention focused in one spot, and then illuminate from another site and fire from another site. And the Shrikes would not always hit the radar's. But most of the time, the NVA would just shut down and not emit, which was a win. Most SAM emitters would be knocked out by Iron bombing from another strike package accompanying the Weasel. Weasel would launch a Shrike, they would see where it went, and then drop on it. Most Weasel work which worked best was the ALQ  ECM pods they carried.  Also, most of the SAM losses were because the targeted Aircraft never saw the Missile launch or flight track, and never saw the missile. One further note, he also said most of the B-52's lost to SAM's didn't have ECM pods or equipment onboard.

[Low_Quality]

Phantom has a Band switch on the pedestal for Shrike. How to understand which shrikes it affects, and how it cuts off frequencies, by what logic? 

https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/cockpit/pilot/pedestal_group.html#band-switch

[KlarSnow]

The band switch has nothing to do with shrike bands. It was a switch added and then repurposed for shrikes later. with the -9/-10 shrikes (Mk49 and Mk50 seekers) it will select whether the shrike is in LOFT ATTACK or DIRECT ATTACK mode, and whether or not it has angle gating while on the rail. None of this is implemented currently.

It is also not clear if this functionality was on the F-4E or if it was only implemented on F-4G's. The F-4E -34's do not spell out this functionality, but the switch and presumably the functionality was there. the F-4G -34's do spell out how this functionality works, and the F-4G has some additional lights under the AOA indexers to let you know if you have LOFT/DIRECT attack selected, or angle gating. Those lights are not present in the F-4E.

In either case at the moment in Heatblurs F-4E that switch is completely non functional.

[Biggus]

On 5/26/2024 at 12:03 AM, KlarSnow said:

there is a bug right now where if you reload missiles or change seekers using the rearm dialog in game, the shrikes will not guide. They only function correctly at the moment if they are on the jet at mission start, loaded by the mission editor. This could be a major reason for why people are having a lot of trouble with them.

Did this get resolved in the last patch or is it still an issue?

[PhantomHans]

Just curious is the 45B going to be added officially at some point?

 

It seems to be less disappointing than the 45A in use.

[HotTom]

I can't get the Shrike to launch in either Direct or AGM-45 mode. Stations selected, Master Arm on, AG sight or Cage sight, in range, Pickle with the bomb button. What am I doing wrong?

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Try "ARM" on Weapon Selector Knob.

[HotTom]

Tried it. Nothing.

 

[diego999]

Maybe you are in Cage AA mode? It will override anything else you have selected.

[HotTom]

Nope. Tried it both in caged and A/G. Still wouldn't launch the missiles. Odd because the Bomb Button works for everything else. Must be something I'm not clicking.. 

[HotTom]

Found it. Fixed it. Thanks.

[brandiment]

I still can't get my shrikes to track, even with good tone high alt and within 7 km they just act like dummy rockets. 

[Temetre]

Am 14.6.2024 um 06:44 schrieb PhantomHans:

Just curious is the 45B going to be added officially at some point?

Probably, but that depends on ED on adding the variant.

Am 14.6.2024 um 06:44 schrieb PhantomHans:

It seems to be less disappointing than the 45A in use.

Tbh the 45A can be quite powerful and reasonably far ranging (or be lofted from low altitude). Its just kinda buggy right now.

AFAIK the only difference with the B will be a better rocket motor for more range, otherwise it uses the same sensor heads.

[PhantomHans]

16 hours ago, Temetre said:

Probably, but that depends on ED on adding the variant.

Already seems to exist been launching them off the F-4 and F-14 with a little modding of the loadouts.

On the F-14 you have no idea if the missile is tracking or not at the time of launch, ofc...

[Mud]

On 6/18/2024 at 6:26 PM, HotTom said:

Found it. Fixed it. Thanks.

Can you let us know what your issue was then in the end? Could be helpful for other people with the same issue.
Cheers.

Mud

[Nealius]

WCRS Setting	Rearm Menu Setting
DIRECT	DIRECT
LOFT	LOFT
AGM-45	??????????????????

Not enough explanation of how this interacts with the rearm menu setting. Primarily:

1. What rearm menu setting do we use for the "AGM-45" delivery?
2. Does Direct/Loft in the rearm menu have to match the selected delivery on the WCRS, or can you still do a loft with the rearm menu set to direct?

[primus_TR]

On 5/25/2024 at 1:46 PM, HB_Painter said:

WRCS AGM-45

Selecting AGM-45 on the LABS/WRCS knob is the “preferred” way of employing the shrike, it will give you ranging indications for the shrike and let you know if you are in range to loft, perform a level release, or a diving release of the shrike. If you want to perform a loft or level release with this mode, you should be using a LOFT ATTACK shrike.

This is from the first post in this thread.  It's a very useful guide and it'll answer all shrike-related questions if you take the time to read it 

[Nealius]

10 minutes ago, primus_TR said:

This is from the first post in this thread.  It's a very useful guide and it'll answer all shrike-related questions if you take the time to read it 

I did read it. Either you did not, or you failed to understand my question. Nowhere can I find an explanation of which of the two rearm menu settings--loft or direct--to use with the LABS/WRCS knob set to AGM-45.

[MBot]

I am sorry man, but primus_TR even bolded the answer to your question in his quote