requested Bomb fuze update - where is the documentation?

[AndrewDCS2005]

From DCS 2.9.5.55300 (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

Quote

New bomb fuze options for several modern aircraft.
Added the ability to adjust various settings to a range of US air-to-ground armament - GP LD and HD bombs, Paveway II and III, JDAM and CBUs. Adjustable settings include, where applicable, fuze types, arming and functioning delays, airburst altitude, laser seeker PRF code, bomblet release RPM and various external weapon features. 
Please see: DCS: Bomb Fuze Update

 

This is all great! However, where is the documentation please? The video is just few examples, and mostly shows new UI interface operation to change the fuzes. It is really puzzling to see such a significant change for arming/fuzing bombs, and no info on how this actually works. This is marked as work in progress, however what is the FMU-140 ? What is the Mk 339 Mod 1 ? What are the Function Delay PRI and OPT? There are few threads already complaining about CCIP busted for Mk-20 CBUs, and folks trying to figure it out through trial and error and building tribe knowledge via YT videos. 

Can we have the docs please on each fuze type?

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

I will ask the team, but before we can document it we need to ensure all our tweaks are in first, for now Wags video is all we have. 

thank you 

[AndrewDCS2005]

Thank you! Understood this is work in progress, hopefully it completes soon and we can employ full power of customizing A2G weapons.

[Py]

20 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

I will ask the team, but before we can document it we need to ensure all our tweaks are in first, for now Wags video is all we have. 

thank you 

A simple explanation after the name in the selection list would go a long way, similar to in the weapons selection menu eg "Mk-82, 500 lb unguided bomb"

[Heesh]

On 5/29/2024 at 9:21 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

I will ask the team, but before we can document it we need to ensure all our tweaks are in first, for now Wags video is all we have. 

thank you 

Sorry but this argument is kind of absurd... You can't document (or provide us with) anything before you tweaked and fixed everything but you have enough information to literally put the feature in the game? I mean I get it is supposed to be a "beta" feature but this feature essentially touches every module ingame and we can't have a documentation because it's not ready but it's already in game? That's not how it works usually... If it's "released" it should be documented and by that I don't mean a youtube video which is helpful no doubt. You could release a documentation which just corresponds to the current state of the feature which is in game already. Then as you "tweak" the feature you can "tweak" the documentation.

In my opinion this is a good example on why there is discontent within the community sometimes. You are releasing undocumented wip features (in this case a big one) and the community needs to do the guess work afterwards. Just tell us more and everyone knows what he is up to.

[Str][ker]

Is it possible to get a list of Fuze types which will be in DCS and their specifics as exists in the real world? This could be a helpful stopgap while things are tweaked in DCS. Right now, I don't know what I should be using for a given situation nor do I know if making any changes to the fuze settings helps destroy a target or possibly reduces effectiveness against other targets. 

[opps]

"Study level simulater" without almost no proper documentation with lots of bugs and wips.

Users have no idea what is bug, wip, or just doing something wrong.

What a nightmere DCS is...

 

Edited June 1, 2024 by opps

[Northstar98]

I agree there should be some documentation, maybe it can be something for the encylopedia as this is that's intended use case.

On 5/30/2024 at 4:47 AM, Py said:

A simple explanation after the name in the selection list would go a long way, similar to in the weapons selection menu eg "Mk-82, 500 lb unguided bomb"

Please no. The way it's done causes quite a lot of clutter. Worse, is that it's inconsistent with regard to what information it contains and how it's presented and in a couple of cases it isn't even correct.

That's without going into the fact that in some cases they made the names much more vague while doubling or tripling their length, which should be the exact opposite of what display names should be.

 

Much better would be a mouseover tool-tip (like we already have for fuses, but they could expand on some of the information).

And unless you're going to start listing all the settings in the name (which will make it incredibly cluttered), you should be able to tell what happens with what fuse based on the options you have available when it's selected (mainly just airburst or delay).

On 5/29/2024 at 8:12 AM, AndrewDCS2005 said:

This is marked as work in progress, however what is the FMU-140 ?

A proximity fuse. See this.

While I agree with the overall request, you can find the important information out with regard to what fuse does what simply by selecting it and seeing what options you are presented with. If you only get airburst altitude, you know it's a proximity/airburst fuse. If you get function delays, you know it's a delay fuse which causes the bomb to function (which may be the bomb exploding or dispensing submunitions) after a delay. For cluster bombs the delay will be after release, for the current fuses available to GP bombs, it's after impact.

On 5/29/2024 at 8:12 AM, AndrewDCS2005 said:

What is the Mk 339 Mod 1 ?

A mechanical time fuses that will function after a certain time has elapsed after being dropped.

Again, if you click on the fuse, you can see that the only options you can select are function delays, which should lead you on to the fact that it's a delay fuse.

On 5/29/2024 at 8:12 AM, AndrewDCS2005 said:

What are the Function Delay PRI and OPT?

Well, they're the 2 function delays, i.e. how long after the bomb has been dropped will the fuse function (which in this case will split the casing and dispense the submunitions). You've got the option to select one of the 2 settings, a primary setting and an optional setting. Which gets chosen should be selectable in the cockpit (it works based on what wire(s) are pulled when the bomb releases).

On 5/31/2024 at 2:22 PM, Str][ker said:

Right now, I don't know what I should be using for a given situation nor do I know if making any changes to the fuze settings helps destroy a target or possibly reduces effectiveness against other targets.

Right now it doesn't really change much.

Setting longer function delays on CBUs like the Rockeye will cause it to release at a lower altitude for the same release altitude, which will cause the bomblets to be distributed in a more confined area and potentially more accurately. Similar thing for proximity fuses on them like the FMU-140 (higher altitudes and higher spin-rates will cause bomblets to be more widely dispersed, lower burst altitudes and lower spin rates causes them to be more tightly dispersed).

For GP bombs like the Mk 80 series, the DSU-33 proximity fuse is currently awaiting work on the fragmentation modelling to really make it effective. It's useful for soft-targets, particularly if they're entrenched or behind cover.

For other fuses (namely the tail fuses), setting the function delay to 0 gives you detonation on impact, useful for general purpose bombing but not for penetration, which is what the delays are for. So the delays should primarily be used for penetrating hard targets (particularly bunkers). For the FMU-152, that also has very long delays, those are probably to be utilised more for an area denial role, for instance to destroy repair crews repairing a damaged runway. It could also be used to destroy convoys if you know where they'll be in the future.

Edited June 3, 2024 by Northstar98
grammar

[AndrewDCS2005]

@Northstar98 thank you for response and links!

Of course I did some searching on the web, and of course I spent time trying fuze settings and seeing the result. However, this was only part of the point in my request - yes all of us can do this, spend ton of time, get to our own conclusions, and have fragmented and mismatching tribal knowledge depending on the sources and conditions we used. 

The bigger point is the actual documentation on DCS implementation (and my questions were just few examples, the ask is for everything fuze-related).

Yes public sources are nice (though ED often questions these and has its own approach to what is right and wrong), but I need to understand how fuze will actually work in the game, for which only ED can provide docs matching the implementation. I really respect ED for absolutely outstanding work it does, but in this specific case its a bit weird to release a significant change to weapon fuzing (which we all welcome, the closer to IRL the better!), but leaving the community in the dark about how it actually behaves in the sim.

 

Edited June 2, 2024 by AndrewDCS2005

[Northstar98]

38 minutes ago, AndrewDCS2005 said:

The bigger point is the actual documentation on DCS implementation (and my questions were just few examples, the ask is for everything fuze-related).

Yes public sources are nice (though ED often questions these and has its own approach to what is right and wrong), but I need to understand how fuze will actually work in the game, for which only ED can provide docs matching the implementation. I really respect ED for absolutely outstanding work it does, but in this specific case its a bit weird to release a significant change to weapon fuzing (which we all welcome, the closer to IRL the better!), but leaving the community in the dark about how it actually behaves in the sim.

Yep, I mean that's all completely reasonable, I'm with you there. Even if it was a post on the forums.

Right now, the knowledge is fairly thin and all we really have is this.

[BossBearFace]

On 5/29/2024 at 8:21 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

I will ask the team, but before we can document it we need to ensure all our tweaks are in first, for now Wags video is all we have. 

thank you 

Any update on this?

[Kurnass1977]

So, if I'll hit a bunker with a GBU-10 ( as per Operation Mountain Breeze Campaign) which fuzes,etc... I need on my weapons?

In the specific mission the bombs are equipped only with FMU 139 and resulted all duds when hitting

[Nealius]

On 6/1/2024 at 8:56 PM, opps said:

"Study level simulater" without almost no proper documentation with lots of bugs and wips.

"Study level" means the only documentation is real manuals--if you can find them or can legally access them. Then when something goes wrong you have to guess whether it's a WIP implementation, incorrect implementation, software bug, or user incorrectly interacting with the software, and when brought up on the forums you just get shot down with "our SMEs said..." or Rule 1.whatever which put an arbritrary date on "legal" real-world manuals.

[AndrewDCS2005]

@Kurnass1977 please see comment below, with track attached for GBUs hitting the targets as expected.

 

[Revientor]

I am missing som fuctions that for sure will be implemented in the future, buy why not now xD

In the mision editor, when you are selectin the munnitios in the fuze window.

Why not add two options as buttons.

1.- COPY THIS CONFIGURATION TO THE SYMETRICAL STATION (ONLY IF IT IS THE SAME BOMB MODEL)

2.- COPY THIS CONFIGURATION TO ALL BOMBS LOADED THAT ARE THE SAME MODEL IN THIS PLANE

 

This will save time and will make sure pilot get the same config if they want in a easily way

[BossBearFace]

Is there a copy of this new information available off-line?

[graveyard4DCS]

Hi, 

Just for info I documented most of the fuzes in this post: 

 

You can also check my personal page for additional details. 

[Vakarian]

@BIGNEWY Is there any new info about getting this documentation done? I mean, IRL docs are all fine and dandy, but unless DCS has them implemented exactly like that, those are of little to no use. What would be appreciated is what combinations are working within DCS and with which aircraft so we know what can and more specifically, what shouldn't be used so when missions are flown there are no bad outcomes due to incorrect fusing options. 

Within my group there are still questions marks over our heads why a certain combo works on Viper, but doesn't on Hornet and it would be really nice if we had some document from ED to use as a reference on do's and don'ts.

[BIGNEWY]

I will ask the team again. 

thank you