cordite Posted July 27, 2024 Posted July 27, 2024 I remember the overblown news stories too. There was a patent troll for "rumble", but even that wasn't enough to stop the proliferation of rumble pads. FF was due to being a "niche within a niche", and partly because the technology wasn't quite good enough yet. If the market had been there, all anyone had to do was talk to Microsoft. 1
Aapje Posted July 27, 2024 Posted July 27, 2024 It wasn't so much lack of demand for FFB gear specifically, but lack of demand for flight sim gear in general. The entire hardware market stagnated, which allowed new brands like Virpil, VKB and Winwing to compete, despite very little marketing and fairly small R&D departments. Established brands stopped caring for the most part and at best just kept selling the same old tech. MSFS 2020 revived the flight sim market, especially with the good fortune of it coming out during Covid-times, where it allowed people stuck indoors to travel anyway, albeit virtually. 3
rapid Posted July 28, 2024 Posted July 28, 2024 Yes covid had a lot to do with flight sims "Taking off " Well written Aapje. 1 Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII , Ryzen 3900X, Nzxt Kraken Z73, Vengence RBG Pro DDR4 3600mhz 32 GB, 2x Corsair MP 600 pcie4 M.2 2 TB , 2x Samsung Qvo SSD 2x TB, RTX 3090 FE, EVGA PSU 800watt, Steelseries Apex Pro. TM WartHog,TM TPR, Track IR, TM 2 x MFD, Asus VG289Q, Virpil Control Panel#2
rapid Posted July 30, 2024 Posted July 30, 2024 Does anyone know what the actual force was with the original Microsoft Sidewinder? The Moza is stated as "providing a constant 9Nm of torque and the system offering a peak torque of 12Nm" I have seen some people say that 9Nm is not strong enough, now this is their personal view it does not mean they are correct . I remember owning a Sidewinder - which I chucked out 2 years ago yeah- I know don't ask me why- But I never had an issues with the amount of force applied to the stick so out of interest could anyone remember what the force was in Nm? Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII , Ryzen 3900X, Nzxt Kraken Z73, Vengence RBG Pro DDR4 3600mhz 32 GB, 2x Corsair MP 600 pcie4 M.2 2 TB , 2x Samsung Qvo SSD 2x TB, RTX 3090 FE, EVGA PSU 800watt, Steelseries Apex Pro. TM WartHog,TM TPR, Track IR, TM 2 x MFD, Asus VG289Q, Virpil Control Panel#2
Aapje Posted July 31, 2024 Posted July 31, 2024 (edited) @rapid According to this post the FFB2 is 0.8 Nm by default (no resistor mod), so the first one is probably in that region as well: Edited July 31, 2024 by Aapje 1
Bucic Posted July 31, 2024 Posted July 31, 2024 6 hours ago, rapid said: Does anyone know what the actual force was with the original Microsoft Sidewinder? The Moza is stated as "providing a constant 9Nm of torque and the system offering a peak torque of 12Nm" I have seen some people say that 9Nm is not strong enough, now this is their personal view it does not mean they are correct . I remember owning a Sidewinder - which I chucked out 2 years ago yeah- I know don't ask me why- But I never had an issues with the amount of force applied to the stick so out of interest could anyone remember what the force was in Nm? As far as user testimonies are concerned, Stating torque without the arm length they use (from mechanical axis to the centre of the palm on the grip) doesn't give a clear indication. 1 F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
some1 Posted July 31, 2024 Posted July 31, 2024 12nm is when you move the stick diagonally, so power of two motors combined. But even 9nm is plenty for a stick without extension, that translates to around 3kg max force on the grip. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil WarBRD, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro
Hunter Joker Posted July 31, 2024 Posted July 31, 2024 54 minutes ago, some1 said: 12nm is when you move the stick diagonally, so power of two motors combined. But even 9nm is plenty for a stick without extension, that translates to around 3kg max force on the grip. Do You think that with a 200mm extension will be enough anyway? Cause for me flight without extension is impossible... Thx. 1 https://www.youtube.com/user/garaganotube
some1 Posted July 31, 2024 Posted July 31, 2024 It's in the same ballpark as Rhino, people use that with extensions so it's doable, although not perfect. 2 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil WarBRD, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro
rapid Posted July 31, 2024 Posted July 31, 2024 At last someone has done a 45 minute review of the Moza FFB 3 Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII , Ryzen 3900X, Nzxt Kraken Z73, Vengence RBG Pro DDR4 3600mhz 32 GB, 2x Corsair MP 600 pcie4 M.2 2 TB , 2x Samsung Qvo SSD 2x TB, RTX 3090 FE, EVGA PSU 800watt, Steelseries Apex Pro. TM WartHog,TM TPR, Track IR, TM 2 x MFD, Asus VG289Q, Virpil Control Panel#2
Hiob Posted July 31, 2024 Posted July 31, 2024 (edited) 8 hours ago, rapid said: Does anyone know what the actual force was with the original Microsoft Sidewinder? The Moza is stated as "providing a constant 9Nm of torque and the system offering a peak torque of 12Nm" 9NM is peak torque per axis - limited only by heat saturation (aka will drop when the motors get hot - which WILL happen since the moza has no active cooling). 12 NM is the resuling force of two axis when pulling diagonaly as others already said. For reference, that is the same value as the Rhino has. 2 hours ago, some1 said: 12nm is when you move the stick diagonally, so power of two motors combined. But even 9nm is plenty for a stick without extension, that translates to around 3kg max force on the grip. For a lever length (axis or rotation to middle of hand position) of about 30 cm that is. I happen to use an even slightly longer overall lever (37 cm) and the resulting force still gives a very good experience. Edited July 31, 2024 by Hiob 1 "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
Thadiun Okona Posted July 31, 2024 Posted July 31, 2024 15 hours ago, Aapje said: @rapid According to this post the FFB2 is 0.8 Nm by default (no resistor mod), so the first one is probably in that region as well: This was an estimate I came up with based on similar motors since I couldn't find specs for the stock motors, though seems consistent with the feel of the stick and stand by the numbers 1
ebabil Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 22 hours ago, rapid said: At last someone has done a 45 minute review of the Moza FFB not very promising though FC3 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | A-10C II | F/A-18 | Ka-50 III | F-14 | F-16 | AH-64 | Mi-24 | F-5 | F-15E| F-4| Tornado Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria | NS-430 | Supercarrier // Wishlist: CH-53 | UH-60 Youtube MS FFB2 - TM Warthog - CH Pro Pedals - Trackir 5
Biggus Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 Good hardware let down by poor software, a tale as old as time. 1
Aapje Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 Totally expected, as getting the software right is clearly quite a bit of effort (since you have to implement a telemetry-based system for a bunch of sims). It's better than the hardware being bad, since you can download new software, but not new hardware. Keep in mind that this is what you often sign up for when you (pre)order the first product of a certain kind, that a company makes. That said, I'm not yet convinced that the hardware is good for all use cases. I want a test to heat failure, people trying it out with long table clamps, etc. 3
petsild Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 It is also necessary for a review on moza to be made by a user who already has experience with FFB sticks. 1 MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium.
Morat Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 On 7/20/2024 at 9:42 PM, agrasyuk said: Not sure what you are talking about man. Lathe is actually a really great thing for marriage yeah but you bought it for your son, right? 1
rapid Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 (edited) Another unboxing again with a pre order warning. Mine still on order. Edited August 2, 2024 by rapid 1 Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII , Ryzen 3900X, Nzxt Kraken Z73, Vengence RBG Pro DDR4 3600mhz 32 GB, 2x Corsair MP 600 pcie4 M.2 2 TB , 2x Samsung Qvo SSD 2x TB, RTX 3090 FE, EVGA PSU 800watt, Steelseries Apex Pro. TM WartHog,TM TPR, Track IR, TM 2 x MFD, Asus VG289Q, Virpil Control Panel#2
Aapje Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 That channel is reasonably good and he has experience with FFB (albeit not joysticks), so I'm happy that he got one. 1
rapid Posted August 3, 2024 Posted August 3, 2024 Yes he has good knowledge of FFB so looking forward to his findings. 1 Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII , Ryzen 3900X, Nzxt Kraken Z73, Vengence RBG Pro DDR4 3600mhz 32 GB, 2x Corsair MP 600 pcie4 M.2 2 TB , 2x Samsung Qvo SSD 2x TB, RTX 3090 FE, EVGA PSU 800watt, Steelseries Apex Pro. TM WartHog,TM TPR, Track IR, TM 2 x MFD, Asus VG289Q, Virpil Control Panel#2
agrasyuk Posted August 5, 2024 Posted August 5, 2024 The one thing Moza sure knows how to do great: shmooze Ytubers for good reviews. Anton. My pit build thread . Simple and cheap UFC project
Panzerlang Posted August 5, 2024 Posted August 5, 2024 On 8/3/2024 at 2:05 AM, rapid said: Another unboxing again with a pre order warning. Mine still on order. No sign of it coming with a base floor-mounting plate.
Nightdare Posted August 5, 2024 Posted August 5, 2024 On 7/31/2024 at 9:46 AM, rapid said: At last someone has done a 45 minute review of the Moza FFB So, missing axes and buttons for the Virpil grips That's a "Nope" for me Intel I5 13600k / AsRock Z790 Steel Legend / MSI 4080s 16G Gaming X Slim / Kingston Fury DDR5 5600 64Gb / Adata 960 Max / HP Reverb G2 v2 Rhino FFB / Virpil MT50 Mongoost T50 Throttle, T50cm Grip, VFX Grip, ACE Rudder / WinWing Orion2 Navy, UFC&HUD, PTO2, 2x MFD1, PFP7 / Logitech Flight Panel / VKB SEM V / 2x DIY Bodnar Button Panels
Aapje Posted August 5, 2024 Posted August 5, 2024 5 hours ago, Nightdare said: So, missing axes and buttons for the Virpil grips That's a "Nope" for me The Rhino has the same issue. It's an issue caused by Virpil, not something that the bases seem to be able to solve. The best solution may be to use VKB's Modern Combat Grip Pro, with the passthrough adapter made by VPForce. Then you are guaranteed to have full grip functionality.
some1 Posted August 5, 2024 Posted August 5, 2024 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Aapje said: The Rhino has the same issue. It doesn't. It supports all extra buttons and axes on Virpil grips. Edited August 5, 2024 by some1 1 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil WarBRD, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro
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