opinion Afghanistan user feedback

[Nightstalker]

I have been flying around for a week now, and being someone who likes to fly helicopters, this is what I'm seeing everywhere I fly in the S/W portion of the map.  It's unfortunately a hodge podge of puzzle pieces stamped on top of satellite imagery.  I own all of the DCS maps and I've never seen this before.

[SharpeXB]

Personally I think DCS has too many maps already so the idea of having EA for these doesn't make sense to me. I will wait on buying maps until there’s actually something to do with them. If they’re used in multiplayer or a DLC campaign they’re worth buying. But until then the idea of having lots of incomplete or low quality maps isn’t worthwhile IMO

Edited July 19, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Blackhawk163]

1 hour ago, Nightstalker said:

I have been flying around for a week now, and being someone who likes to fly helicopters, this is what I'm seeing everywhere I fly in the S/W portion of the map.  It's unfortunately a hodge podge of puzzle pieces stamped on top of satellite imagery.  I own all of the DCS maps and I've never seen this before.

Yeah, I noticed a lot of that I have an album with places like these. I also did a waterway tour ever since I posted that lampoon on that other thread with the crazy rant. I've never been over there so I can't speak to the accuracy of any of them (waterways) however, there seems to be an overabundance of dried-up riverbeds/tributaries that have bridges that span across an obvious crossing of some kind. Whether it be a river that's supposed to be there, or valley that exists from when viewed from on high but only exists as a flat texture map on ground level (there's a lot of that going on)

I know that the high desert can have complexity to them, years of deploying to NTC taught me that, 

Is the map populated via A.I? Just weird. 

 

I'm kinda in the "whatever" phase of all of this, as I play that other sim that's been going strong for 26 years now, and that has UGLY ground textures. Great for 1998 when nearly everything was just flat shaded polygons. What gets me is the bow shock wave of grass/shrubs that generate in front of you, and it's in all the maps, but just sticks out more to me here because to the topography. I wish you could shut it off. I even set my preload radius to the max setting and no dice. It's either that or they're secretly Tribbles or some alien species of Prairie dogs.

 

[Ironhand]

1 hour ago, Nightstalker said:

I have been flying around for a week now, and being someone who likes to fly helicopters, this is what I'm seeing everywhere I fly in the S/W portion of the map.  It's unfortunately a hodge podge of puzzle pieces stamped on top of satellite imagery.  I own all of the DCS maps and I've never seen this before.

They are taking a new approach to map making and, so, we’ll have to see how everything is eventually blended together in the end. In that regard, it’s no surprise that this map is looking very different from previous ones at this point. As someone who’s done a bit of this type of work in the past, it looks like this map has a lot of place holders and is in the early stages of getting terrain to blend together, etc. I’m not planning to worry until much later, unless little changes over time. I find the map pleasant enough, at this point, for what it is.

[Nightstalker]

24 minutes ago, Ironhand said:

They are taking a new approach to map making and, so, we’ll have to see how everything is eventually blended together in the end. In that regard, it’s no surprise that this map is looking very different from previous ones at this point. As someone who’s done a bit of this type of work in the past, it looks like this map has a lot of place holders and is in the early stages of getting terrain to blend together, etc. I’m not planning to worry until much later, unless little changes over time. I find the map pleasant enough, at this point, for what it is.

Unless someone tells me I’m wrong, it’s the same tech as the recent Kola map and I’ve been flying all over it as well in my Kiowa and I’ve seen none of these puzzle pieces on there.

[buceador]

On 7/16/2024 at 2:47 PM, Hiob said:

Ok, you probably know, that I'm rather forgiving towards ED, regarding bugs, missing features and so on

My honest opinion is that most of us fall into the above category.  I think the caveat that has become a mantra, 'It's EARLY ACCESS' backed up with the (IMHO) slightly patronising 'EA is not for everyone' stems partly from the fact that ED has no real market competitor.  I cannot imagine DreamWorks Interactive (MOH) or Ubisoft (Ghost Recon) releasing something so graphically displeasing. ( I am aware you cannot compare apples with oranges)

[Blackhawk163]

11 minutes ago, Nightstalker said:

Unless someone tells me I’m wrong, it’s the same tech as the recent Kola map and I’ve been flying all over it as well in my Kiowa and I’ve seen none of these puzzle pieces on there.

Been eyeing that. Is it mostly a medium to high altitude map? Or is it visually appealing down low? Too bad that there's no trial on that yet. Nothing better to help cool you off than some impressive looking winter terrain.

[Baldrick33]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Personally I think DCS has too many maps already so the idea of having EA for these doesn't make sense to me. I will wait on buying maps until there’s actually something to do with them. If they’re used in multiplayer or a DLC campaign they’re worth buying. But until then the idea of having lots of incomplete or low quality maps isn’t worthwhile IMO

 

A well known racing sim regularly releases new tracks and typically even if the track is of little personal interest they tend to raise the bar in terms of quality with each release, occasionally they go back and update the old tracks but in general the new ones are the best. I have kind of fallen in the trap of buying each new map in DCS in the belief the latest will be the greatest. Also to see what new third party developers bring who the party in some cases. I share Mark’s disappointment to some extent with the recent releases.

[Nightstalker]

49 minutes ago, Blackhawk163 said:

Been eyeing that. Is it mostly a medium to high altitude map? Or is it visually appealing down low? Too bad that there's no trial on that yet. Nothing better to help cool you off than some impressive looking winter terrain.

I hopped in the Kiowa and started flying north from Kemi airfield along the river.  I must have flown for half an hour of real time over river, forest and green grass without seeing a single town or village.  It’s going to be a beautiful map but it’s pretty sparse on POI’s right now.  I like it because I feel like I’m flying in Canadian cottage country.  I know I’ll never have a Canadian map in DCS so…..

I haven’t seen any puzzle piece textures yet though.  The Russian area is really well detailed but it’s surrounded by wasteland.  That’s just reality though not Orbx.

[Ironhand]

7 hours ago, Nightstalker said:

Unless someone tells me I’m wrong, it’s the same tech as the recent Kola map and I’ve been flying all over it as well in my Kiowa and I’ve seen none of these puzzle pieces on there.

Totally different environment. Desert vs forested. No blending cover vs more blending cover. I’ll withhold judgement until the entire map has been worked on.

[Nightstalker]

What does the environment have to do with it?  Both are using satellite imagery and placing objects on top.  No difference.  It should be harder actually in Kola because of all the forest.  The difference is one did a better job of blending the POI’s onto the imagery.  Both are very early access.

[Weta43]

FATI:

a collection of old screenshots of the same sorts of errors & EA glitches we're talking about here from other maps while they were in EA:

[Ironhand]

1 hour ago, Nightstalker said:

 …It should be harder actually in Kola because of all the forest…

Forests actually make it a bit easier to hide transitions. Also, Kola is being done in a single piece. Afghanistan is being worked on as three. Obviously you have your view of what the map should already look like and I have mine.

Edited July 20, 2024 by Ironhand

[T.Power]

22 hours ago, TFS said:

I see the frustration from everyone IF they thought this was a completed release, that seems to be the mention time and time again stating the FAQ mentioned that it's a final release of SW during an EA of an overall map. My thoughts of the FAQ was feature complete meaning locations and layout with structures, being early access, meaning not finished as a full release. 

 

So to clarify, the SW is final release... or EA? I know the overall map is EA, but is SW EA? I genuinely thought SW was EA and any issues located, as they requested, would still be worked on in the future for updates. If SW is final release in it's current state and no further work will be done, then it's a shame, meaning only the parts that look good will look good. If SW is EA, then I don't get the uproar. 

 

EDIT: Just read the other post that @Schlingel mit Kringel quoted by ED. Guess my assumption was right. Too many people jumped to conclusions too soon. The future IS bright. I stand by this purchase and continue to enjoy the experience. 

 

People honestly thought the SW was final?  The really bad textures are clearly the guide layer they work from for placing objects and creating tiles, there are plenty of areas that are fully completed and they are jaw dropping even at low altitude.  This will be the new benchmark, and winter textures are coming.

[Nightstalker]

11 hours ago, Weta43 said:

FATI:

a collection of old screenshots of the same sorts of errors & EA glitches we're talking about here from other maps while they were in EA:

No idea where those photos are from.  My point is, the photos I and others posted are not errors or glitches.  The whole S/W map looks like the photos I showed.  I could have taken hundreds of them.  If it was just a few errors I would have just reported them in the bug section.  Again “for all intents and purposes feature complete” is not the words I would use for this area of the map.  

[T.Power]

Are you serious?  Get in your Rotor and find them yourself you bum.

[Ironhand]

1 hour ago, Nightstalker said:

…Again “for all intents and purposes feature complete” is not the words I would use for this area of the map.  

Something to read:

 

Quote

What does Early Access, Features and such mean for Terrain and how does it compare to Aircraft modules? (ADDED)
We have noticed some confusion on what Early Access means for a terrain, especially one being sold with the possibility of owning only 1 or 2 parts. Features on a Terrain can be described as things like Airfields, Cities, POI's and such. Saying the SW portion is mostly feature complete it's for these types of objects and areas. What it doesn't mean is that those areas are necessarily done in layout or textures, all these things can change during Early Access. 
This also goes for textures, for example, some have pointed out areas where highly detailed abruptly bump up against low detailed areas. Even in the SW regions, this is still very much WIP. The challenge of doing a huge map like this is maintaining a reasonable size and performance. The idea here is to get the most out of the high-detail areas for all 3 areas, then go back and see how much we can push those medium-detail areas you would see between High and Low areas. If we were to complete the SW area before the others and push it to max levels before the other 2 areas were in, we run the risk of having an unmanageable sized map, or one with poor performance, and would require us to go back and pull some detail out. 
This is a very new way of doing a map, along with one of the biggest and most detailed maps to date, there will be some growing pains and it will look rough in places at times. We appreciate all those who are willing to continue on this EA with us, and we look forward to all your feedback and reports on the map!

 

[Ironhand]

16 minutes ago, Schlingel mit Kringel said:

  answer tells any of us enough. About you as well as your claim. Thanks.

IDK. I’ve only had time for one low level flight so far. Started at Bost and headed up toward Tarinkot (just SW of it) and a bit toward Shindad before turning north in the direction of Chaghcharin. Ran out of playtime before reaching it, though. I was flying WP to WP, rather than following terrain features and that might make some difference. The towns in the vicinity of Bost look much like they do in satellite imagery I’ve seen as do others along my route. All in all the flight was enjoyable. The most jarring thing for me were the trees (color and size) in the mountains near the large lake/reservoir along my route. The rest of it was enjoyable enough.

[Nightstalker]

1 hour ago, Schlingel mit Kringel said:

Yep, NineLine added that to the FAQ a few days ago. Cleared a lot up for me. I still got some issues with the map like the baked in terrain features, but generally i am curious to see how it develops.

Here the link to the original post:

 

Yep, he added that AFTER release.  It’s BigNewy who posted the original comment which is all we had to go on at the time.  They can reinterpret all they want and so can you but “all intents and purposes, feature complete” is pretty self explanatory. No sense debating it anymore.  In my opinion it was a poor and rushed release.  You are free to believe differently.  Hopefully it will eventually improve.

[T.Power]

7 hours ago, Schlingel mit Kringel said:

  answer tells any of us enough. About you as well as your claim. Thanks.

 

I'm sorry what was that?

[TFS]

18 hours ago, Schlingel mit Kringel said:

Could you kindly take a minute and mark some of those 'plenty areas' that are 'fully completed and jaw dropping even at low altitude' in paint? Just draw circles around so it easier for us non-believers to find them.

null

So I tried to do the opposite and find the issue visuals. I really tried to go back over this with fresh eyes. I am having a hard time finding the BAD vs the good. I've flown nearly non stop in this map,(helicopters) spent hours going from map to map comparing a lot of things. Everytime I see something that is off it appears "the usual" on every other map. Which, I also find gorgeous visuals on every map. Be that it may... I do have a well tuned higher end pc in vr. 

I actually have the opposite experience, I see lots of satellite terrain untouched still, however this is found throughout the majority of Caucasus, yet its still a great visual experience. 

Lots of 2d imagery, used on every map so this is nothing new. 

I see farmland next to squared textures in certain spots, but it's few and far between and looks easily fixable, and still what's seen on other maps.

I hate other maps, low and slow helo, miles of nothing, flat tan in all directions. Now open space is fill with farmland and various rivers or streams, even if it's satellite and not touched up yet. It's refreshing and gives you something to look at or hide troops for sporadic engagements. Unlike spotting a single enemy from miles and miles away in a flat desert. 

I'm not looking for perfection, but I have not seen anything that's game breaking. Maybe my expectations are lower, not once have I flown and thought "this is absurd". I've seen the major graphical terrain alignments, these will be corrected. I'm expecting more issues than I'm seeing this early. I'm not getting pop ins, or shadows out of nowhere, aside from the usual here and there, few and far between again. I've seen people's pictures that upset them, yet it seems it's minimal and often harder to find than complementing visuals. 

This whole back and forth baffles me in this community, and has taken up too much of my time trying to find as many issues as possible, so I too can help report things to ED for future updates. (The whole purpose I bought this in the first place) 

Mission editors have already been doing some cool things with fobs and base setup.

And lastly, being this update has caused many issues for many, this map runs extremely well, however I don't have many issues on other maps anymore so that isnt the best baseline maybe.

I spend a lot of time trying to make DCS better. So now as a community, let's continue to scout the issues and report, rather than efforts in... "but this areas this or this area is that". Let's be the future, or does optimism really grind people's gears that much? 

[YSIAD_RIP]

I am just happy that ED made the Map available for a 14 day Trial.  Nothing wrong with trying it out first hand for myself and deciding if it is for me at this time.  I also have Kola, Sinai, and South Atlantic. 

Thank you @Eagle Dynamics for giving us a Trial of this Early Access Map.  

 

[inexus]

I am sure this map will be great one day. I have great hopes for it to be awesome. If only ED would have been so kind to be a bit more transparent up front, I'm sure it would have been appreciated by people instead of explanations after the release. There are parts that looks great and then are the areas not so much. So far Syria has set the bar for what a good map looks like. 

Not that we care but just that the news letter announcing the map said...

Key Features at Early Access: 

- The entirety of Afghanistan with the southwestern portion available in high detail at early access.

- High-resolution terrain mesh, textures and objects that look great from low to high altitude.

 

 https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/2024-03-29/

Edited July 22, 2024 by inexus

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

if you are finding issues on the terrain please post on the bugs section with a mission and a unit at the location and we will report it to the team. 

Low detail areas will be improved during development.

thank you 

[Aarnoman]

Have to say I was fairly disappointed with the map in quality so far from the perspective of rotary play. It looks fairly off from low to medium altitude, and the terrain mesh does not appear any better than Syria's for example despite the stated "High-resolution terrain mesh, textures and objects that look great from low to high altitude." EA statement. The textures look very poor from low to low-medium altitude.

It's a pretty map from up high, and the geography is very interesting. Hopefully these areas improve over the course of EA.