CH-47 Performance Issues

[Daemoc]

I can't believe I am the only one experiencing this, but there is something wrong with this module.

I have done a few free flights and it seems ok, but the second I try to add it to one of my existing missions it completely tanks the frame rate. I can use F4's on the same mission so I don't think it is hardware related, but who knows.

All I know is that this is the only module that completely tanks performance like this.

No mods, no script hooks. Deleted shaders for both DCS and my GPU.

[Gunslinger52]

With only 1 x CH-47 on the Caucasus map, I am at 10-12 FPS lower than my next worst module (Apache).  

I wouldn't mind so much if they actually updated their PC hardware requirements when they added more load onto our PC's.  

[Daemoc]

I don't know what is going on, but I have a few flights that actually work as you described. (-10-20fps loss) Other times though, I average about 10-15 FPS. It's a complete slideshow. If I restart the mission a few times I will get better frame rates for a while, then just have them tank again.

My longest run of somewhat normal FPS using the CH-47 was about 9 minutes before I was taken out by a mid-air, but that was the exception, not the rule.

Anyway, I hope this is due to some sort of bug rather than a side effect of some lunacy hardware requirements.

[supersylph]

As a helicopter it has a larger cockpit than a fighter jet, and it also has a cargo hold.Therefore, it is necessary to load more high-precision internal models than other aircraft.That's why its FPS is low.To be honest, I personally don't want ED to pointlessly pile up higher precision models before solving the game optimization problem.But this is also a way to make various EA aircraft with incomplete functions more attractive.I don't think there will be any big changes.

[Nealius]

Most of it is a texture size issue. I reduced all external textures from 2k to 4k and the cockpit texture loading time/stutters were markedly decreased, despite not touching the internal textures other than the "external" cargo hold texture.

[av8orDave]

Anyone using VR noticing that just loading the textures in the CH-47 takes like 30 seconds or more in some cases? Once you drop into the cockpit, you have to sit and wait for an extended period of time while textures load. I don't seem to have nearly as long a wait in other modules. Something seems amiss.

[assafm25]

Try delete the metadata2 and fxo folders inside DCS saved games folders.

C:\Users\<user_name>\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\fxo
 and 
C:\Users\<user_name>\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\metashaders2

Edited August 28, 2024 by assafm25

[av8orDave]

4 hours ago, assafm25 said:

Try delete the metadata2 and fxo folders inside DCS saved games folders.

C:\Users\<user_name>\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\fxo
 and 
C:\Users\<user_name>\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\metashaders2

 

Yeah this didn’t do anything. 

[Darcaem]

Yes, it affects all of us, but if you have a system powerful enough you may not notice it. Texture size is huge, cockpit texture's size is one order of magnitude higher that other modules'. You can downgrade your texture settings in graphic settings (or manually compress texture files yourself, so you don't have to change texture settings each time you want to fly the CH47. Just downgrading[..]\DCS World\CoreMods\aircraft\CH-47F\Textures\ch-47f textures at 50% gives me a compressed size of 231MB from the original 1.5GB with 0 visual change for me. Downgrading the cockpit textures at 50% reduces size from 3.5GB to 421MB, but it does create artifacts for me)

[dahui]

Did you check this Topic?

(Lowering the Details to Medium was the solution for me)

 

 

[Daemoc]

Wow, I just had a look at the texture files.

Yeah, good luck with that.

Oh well, I just wish I could say this was the first time I had regret for an impulse buy.

[BIGNEWY]

Optimisations will happen during early access, the team are working through many task currently, we all need to be patient.

thank you 

[MoleUK]

The recent releases from ED do seem to be trending towards higher and higher vram requirements.

This could actually be solved by offering a lower texture install of recent (if not all) modules in the module manager, a bit like steam can offer optional 4k texture pack downloads but in reverse. Not everyone needs or wants the extreme level of detail that is now on offer.

User mods have shown that the module textures can be significantly shrunk while still maintaining most of the visual fidelity, and given the module manager already exists perhaps it could be leveraged to help users with GPU's that have less than 16 gigs of vram.

And if ED wants to get more people to install standalone rather than steam, having this feature only available on standalone (via the module manager) might be another incentive to get users to make the jump.

Edited August 29, 2024 by MoleUK

[ColinM9991]

1 hour ago, MoleUK said:

And if ED wants to get more people to install standalone rather than steam, having this feature only available on standalone (via the module manager) might be another incentive to get users to make the jump.

I don't think an exclusive offering like this will help anyone as it creates a further disconnect.

There is the age old debate that only the community members/players seem to have around Steam vs Standalone. The reality is if ED didn't want to use Steam then they wouldn't use Steam, but they've voiced many times that they are happy with Steam and Standalone.

With that said, it's not the worst idea I've seen in terms of Steam/Standalone. Some people genuinely go out of their way to down-talk one or the other as if it actually impacts them in some way.

1 hour ago, MoleUK said:

The recent releases from ED do seem to be trending towards higher and higher vram requirements

A mate of mine has stopped playing DCS as his 3090 is unable to handle the Apache in VR without being a stuttering mess. I'd imagine it's the same with the Chinook. Either the higher requirements are genuine or it's the result of unoptimized texturing which should hopefully be ironed out in due course as BN says above.

Edited August 29, 2024 by ColinM9991

[MoleUK]

5 hours ago, ColinM9991 said:

I don't think an exclusive offering like this will help anyone as it creates a further disconnect.

There is the age old debate that only the community members/players seem to have around Steam vs Standalone. The reality is if ED didn't want to use Steam then they wouldn't use Steam, but they've voiced many times that they are happy with Steam and Standalone.

With that said, it's not the worst idea I've seen in terms of Steam/Standalone. Some people genuinely go out of their way to down-talk one or the other as if it actually impacts them in some way.

A mate of mine has stopped playing DCS as his 3090 is unable to handle the Apache in VR without being a stuttering mess. I'd imagine it's the same with the Chinook. Either the higher requirements are genuine or it's the result of unoptimized texturing which should hopefully be ironed out in due course as BN says above.

 

It's mostly a reason for ED to invest the time in doing it.

And yeah the Apache was always very rough for VR as well. It's remained a performance hog ever since release, so I have come to accept this as the new norm. The Chinook demands have only cemented that. Doesn't mean there won't be optimisations that arrive, but unless something drastically changes the Vram and general horsepower requirements are only going to keep escalating.

Unfortunately Nvidia has been stingy with vram for generations of GPU's and seems unlikely to change much there, so a lot of DCS users are going to suffer in the meantime.

Edited August 29, 2024 by MoleUK

[Daemoc]

Sorry @BIGNEWY
I know that may have sounded a bit harsh, but I just dropped 60 bones on a module I will probably never use. I am sure you guys can squeeze a bit more performance out of it, but with textures being locked to a power of two, I don't see much you can do outside of cutting the fidelity in half. Which I am all for btw, I just know you would have another mob with pitchforks burning down the forums if you did.

I know you can drop the textures to medium, but most of the modules I fly regularly are already old and showing their age. The Huey and F5 look pretty rough on medium. I just don't see myself changing settings every time I decide to fly something different. As a result I can see the Ch-47 going largely unused.

If I could make one suggestion?

Going forward, with these new modules and the insane amount of detail you want to push, make a new "ultra" texture setting. That way we could turn down the setting to high which would not effect all of the older modules/units that look bad enough as it is.

High: current high settings for older modules and lower fidelity for the new modules with insane levels of detail.

Ultra: Full r****d

Everybody wins.

[MadKreator]

For me, in 2D it runs fine, but hopped in vr on Mariana’s and fps was in the 40’s and 50’s,  and jumping around all over. Hopped in the Huey and fps locked at 72 and smooth as can be, even down low in the trees. Other maps the Chinook never went over low 60’s. Not a breaker for me as I prefer 2D but I notice the same thing as others in VR. Curious to try changing the textures in paint.net down to 2k to see if that is the cause of the performance, or if its something to do with the tandem rotor flight model.Having fun with it so far although there isn’t much to do in it. But a good relaxing flier for now.

[average_pilot]

On 8/28/2024 at 3:51 AM, Nealius said:

Most of it is a texture size issue. I reduced all external textures from 2k to 4k and the cockpit texture loading time/stutters were markedly decreased, despite not touching the internal textures other than the "external" cargo hold texture.

I did that for the interior textures. 5GB in textures just for the cockpit. That's insane.

[assafm25]

 Could you please share with us?

[G.J.S]

I did have similar issues, but I adjusted my FPS from 140, down to 50. Still fluid to the eye, loads faster, no issues since. Hardly notice any difference.

Worked for me.

What FPS do you set your DCS to?

[SignorMagnifico]

On the Camp Bastion startup instant action mission, I can get about 130FPS in external view. The second I go into the cockpit, my FPS drops into the 40s.

DxDiag.txt dcs.log

[ARM505]

I have a 4090. It has a pretty decent helping of VRAM. The Chinook is the only one that tanks the fps when playing multiplayer - and playing in VR, 'tanks the fps' means literally halves it.

Funnily enough, the sim never recovers unless I kind of 'reset' the headset by taking it off (turning it to standby) and putting it back on again, so kind of a reset. I assume textures get a little 'flush' when that's done, because it doesn't recover without that.

Then again, it's a Quest 3, and the Meta software is garbage. 'yOu nEEd tO ReSet yOur BoUNdArY'....no. I don't.

[MadKreator]

I tried a texture script from a guy in the Modding section. It automatically cuts ever texture it can find in DCS in half. My texture files went from around 130 gigs  down to 61 gigs in size. I didn’t notice any difference in performance by reducing the texture sizes. Same results on Marianas flying the Chinook. Of course results can widely vary system to system. But a good part of me believes that texture size isn’t the “main” culprit. The texture files are huge in comparison with other modules so I’m sure it is playing a role too.

[Legs]

On 8/27/2024 at 7:51 PM, Nealius said:

Most of it is a texture size issue. I reduced all external textures from 2k to 4k and the cockpit texture loading time/stutters were markedly decreased, despite not touching the internal textures other than the "external" cargo hold texture.

Any chance you could upload that file here?

[ST0RM]

On 9/8/2024 at 12:59 PM, Legs said:

Any chance you could upload that file here?