BigNewy - $100 Million plus AAA sim that starts up like a Beta project and has weird Pennywise lights

[Tensorial_Architect]

BigNewy, NineLives, and the rest of the Grand Powers That Be - This is not so much a wish list item as a simple user experience improvement:

1 - Whenever I start up DCS, it takes anywhere from 45 seconds (if not in VR mode) to over 2 minutes (in VR mode) to load (this is with two Samsung 990 Pro SSDs for what it is worth). You guys at ED have spent tens of millions of dollars to turn DCS into the premier military flight sim product on the market and yet it feels in that first few minutes like a cheesy Beta product made in someone's attic.

I propose a better startup screen like this:

 

 .... but with the addition of a nice progress bar at the bottom. Even better, a HD video clip that loads with a progress bar. Something that far better indicates the AAA nature of DCS. What is critically important though is that you get the loading screen or loading video off and running within 1 to 2 seconds of clicking on the DCS.exe icon. Waiting around for 10 to 30 seconds before DCS even loads a still image, ... looks like some amateur $%#@ made in someone's garage.

2 - After the sim does start up, say you select a rapid action mission or a training mission. Often in VR mode, a set of three or four weird rotating lights that resemble Pennywise's deadlights (from the 2017 IT movie (and novel) by Stephen King) appears, ....

 

Instead, I propose a nice still image of the aircraft for the mission being loaded (say, a Harrier mission in this case) that contains a progress bar. Something along the lines of ....

 

 

... along with a nice progress loading bar (that actually indicates, ... uhh, ... loading progress). Even better would be a short, live-action, HD video of the airframe in question while the mission loads.

Some simple touches like these, ... which you guys can implement in less than a week, will take the overall polish of DCS up by a noticeable notch. It also will make it far easier for us dudes who fly in VR primarily to see our mission and/or airframe load while we sit staring into our VR headset.

Something to think over (and fairly easy (and cheap) for developers to implement).

Edited January 14 by Tensorial_Architect

[MAXsenna]

Try to exclude your Saved Games folders and the core installation folders in your Anti-Virus solution.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[draconus]

2 hours ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

along with a nice progress loading bar (that actually indicates, ... uhh, ... loading progress). Even better would be a short, live-action, HD video of the airframe in question while the mission loads.

It adds complexity and takes resources, so the loading is actually even longer than it needs to be, then in VR it will flicker and not synch in the eyes, ouch, no thanks.

2 hours ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

fairly easy (and cheap) for developers to implement

The best thing you can do for your wish is to twist dev names, offend them and tell how easy and cheap their job is, good luck

Edited January 14 by draconus

[Tensorial_Architect]

Utilizing a nice still image which pops up one second after a user clicks on the DCS.exe icon, ... and that five seconds later shows a loading bar, ... is not a resource intense investment for any modern desktop cpu. Especially considering a sim that often carries a hard drive space of 300 GB or more.

While I am not a developer for games, I do write a great deal of code each week. The features I mention above, provided the still images or videos were already finished, would be something that any single, reasonably seasoned, developer could implement in under a week. The three floating lights visual as you wait with your VR headset for a mission to load is something that DCS has used for at least six or seven years now iirc. (In fact, DCS used to use exactly what I am proposing, ... a still image of the aircraft in question with a progress bar at the bottom. The only problem is that these loading screens often warped or worked poorly.) That was, ... ehh, ... acceptable back in 2018 with the Rift, ... but it is 2025 and DCS is a major AAA title.

Edited January 14 by Tensorial_Architect

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

DCS is a major AAA title.

Not quite…

Edited January 14 by SharpeXB

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

The three floating lights visual as you wait with your VR headset for a mission to load is something that DCS has used for at least six or seven years now iirc.

I use DCS in VR 4 years now and have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe it's your headset software?

[Darcaem]

Maybe he refers to the loading screen from WMR. I fly with a G2 and when DCS is loading sometimes it shows a black screen with moving foatng lights. I guess it defaults to that WMR when it cannot show the game's render image. In other words, completely normal on the loading screen.

I do agree DCS' user interface is not the better UI in the world, but frankly, as long as I can fly smoothly enough, I do not give a ***

[Tensorial_Architect]

You are correct Darcaem, ... the three revolving "deadlights" are actually part of Windows Mixed Reality. 

That said, when firing up DCS from the desktop icon or from Steam, the experience is amateur as hell. The same is true with the black screens staring off into space while waiting for missions or airframes to load in VR. Something as simple as this:

 

... would bring a nice polish to the sim. Even better would be HD vids like those you see in the Steam store for DCS to advertise the various aircraft.

Edited January 15 by Tensorial_Architect

[freehand]

So which is it the attic or garage ?

[Tensorial_Architect]

Does it matter if there is an equivalence?

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

9 hours ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

Does it matter if there is an equivalence?

Well, yeah, some people don't have basements!

[upyr1]

The ole loading screen paradigm a better loading screen would be nice however if it increases the time to load then it won't be. In short I'm in if it won't increase the load time

[Tensorial_Architect]

The main points are two:

1 - When you click on the DCS.exe, often nothing happens for the first 10 to 40 seconds. Sometimes after 20 seconds, you get a still image, ... sometimes you don't. My main point is that considering the cost to exactly model the F-18, fixing the initial loading screen is child's play. The sim starts up with the appearance of instability and with a very amateur appearance.

2 - For VR users, any time a mission is loading, ... there may or may not be a tiny hour glass loading off in the corner. That's it. Many times, the VR user is left staring into darkness wondering if anything is happening. Again, ... very amateur. Simple professional loading screens (or even better, HD videos) with progress bars would greatly add to the polish and professionalism of the sim as a premier product. (And in comparison to the cost of developing even one airframe, ... say the F4U Corsair, .... extremely cheap to implement correctly.)

[Tensorial_Architect]

And we shouldn't forget the role of good humor with an occasional Easter egg loading screen thrown in:

 

[SlipHavoc]

It's interesting to me that people think they can get others to do something for them by calling them amateurs and unprofessional.  Is this like negging but for software?

[Tensorial_Architect]

Woah, .... Nellie, Nellie, Nellie, .... let's lead that high horse over to the barn. Pontificatus alibis.

DCS employs or has employed in the past aerospace engineers and mathematicians with doctorates to model all manner of correct flight and combat physics. No reasonable person, ... certainly not me, ... would deny they have achieved a premier flight experience.

Leading up to that flight experience though, .... (you must never have tried DCS with a VR headset on while you stare into darkness for anywhere from 20 seconds to two plus minutes wondering if a mission will load (which it sometimes does not)), ... leaves a distinct disconnect between the two.

DCS is not a holy temple on Xanadu above reproach. A few small changes to how it loads would lead to a major impact in perceived polish. That's simply good business that makes for increased sales. Ultimately, ... at the end of the day, ... DCS is a business, trying to sell a product.

Edited January 17 by Tensorial_Architect

[draconus]

2 hours ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

considering the cost to exactly model the F-18, fixing the initial loading screen is child's play

It's not broken in the first place.

2 hours ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

Simple professional loading screens (or even better, HD videos)

Quite contrary - sounds like a cheap shot adware taking resources and adding loading time.

20 minutes ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

if a mission will load (which it sometimes it does not)

Report here:

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/482-game-crash/

2 hours ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

good humor with an occasional Easter egg

Imho, disgusting.

[Tensorial_Architect]

You could rent out a small park in your hometown and hold a "DCS Appreciation Festival." You'd be the keynote speaker commenting upon the wonderful state that DCS has achieved so far. Might be fun to attend.

[SlipHavoc]

On 1/16/2025 at 10:29 PM, Tensorial_Architect said:

Woah, .... Nellie, Nellie, Nellie, .... let's lead that high horse over to the barn. Pontificatus alibis.

DCS employs or has employed in the past aerospace engineers and mathematicians with doctorates to model all manner of correct flight and combat physics. No reasonable person, ... certainly not me, ... would deny they have achieved a premier flight experience.

Leading up to that flight experience though, .... (you must never have tried DCS with a VR headset on while you stare into darkness for anywhere from 20 seconds to two plus minutes wondering if a mission will load (which it sometimes does not)), ... leaves a distinct disconnect between the two.

DCS is not a holy temple on Xanadu above reproach. A few small changes to how it loads would lead to a major impact in perceived polish. That's simply good business that makes for increased sales. Ultimately, ... at the end of the day, ... DCS is a business, trying to sell a product.

I only play in VR, so your guess is wrong.  Your negging posts are also not above reproach, and I'm reproaching you.

[Thamiel]

6 minutes ago, SlipHavoc said:

A few small changes to how it loads would lead to a major impact in perceived polish.

Simply dont call it a "small change" if you are not the one to make it happen. You dont change a running system if the benefits dont outweigh the risks. Especially if the system is sorting things out in the background in order to be able to give you the FPS you like when its finally ready to rumble.

[cfrag]

On 1/14/2025 at 5:31 PM, Tensorial_Architect said:

While I am not a developer for games, I do write a great deal of code each week. The features I mention above, provided the still images or videos were already finished, would be something that any single, reasonably seasoned, developer could implement in under a week.

... which pretty much proves that you have no experience in the field of programming that you are advising. Above sounds a bit like a web page designer giving a host programmer advice on how best to improve their batch processing. If you want to experience just one of the issues that you IMHO somewhat blithely skipped, write a program to bring up a loading screen in VR. Yeah, you'll soon experience the render-space catch-22 that is one of the many reasons why so many mixed-mode games wait until their graphics engine is fully initialized before they enable their VR renderer.

26 minutes ago, SlipHavoc said:

I'm reproaching you.

Ah. On a personal note, purely judging by your demo art, I think that your choice of font alone disqualifies you from giving any gaming UX advice...

<duck>

[Tensorial_Architect]

@ SlipHavoc, Thamiel, cfrag, .... I hear Draconus is holding a DCS appreciation festival. Have you received your invites yet? Apparently, it's going to be quite the event.

[Ornithopter]

Seems like a pretty petty thing to get all bent out of shape over.  As for me, I find it so annoying how long it takes to load, that I take that time to get a can of beer from the refrigerator, and get on with my DCS session by the time I get back.  Don't you have better things to obsess about?

Add me to the appreciation event.  I really happen to like DCS.

Edited January 18 by Ornithopter

[Rudel_chw]

6 minutes ago, Ornithopter said:

Seems like a pretty petty thing to get all bent out of shape over. 

 

Agree .. I love a fast startup as much as anyone, but choosing this kind of detail to gripe about when you are a newcomer to this Sim is a bit much .. 

[cfrag]

I'm slow on the uptake today. Didn't clue in on an obvious troll. Remedied.

Apologies to all.