Tactical Turns - Flying with an AI Wingman.

[BIGNEWY]

Tactical Turns - Flying with an AI Wingman.

ONLY AVAILABLE IN THE F/A-18C FOR NOW, COMING SOON FOR THE F-16C AND MORE.

As part of our longer term work to improve AI behaviour and realism we are introducing tactical turns - Tac Turns. 

This allows players to fly as lead of a pair with an AI wingman who can be commanded to turn and will try to execute the turns as they are flown in most air forces.

The language used has a slight bias towards the RAF but the principles are the same across all air forces.

The basic formation is the “battle pair”. The reason this formation has been used for decades is that it provides mutual cross-cover and “six-checking” when in hostile airspace, to help lessen the chance of ambush - being “bounced” - by hostile enemy jets approaching unseen to engage with guns or IR AAM.

With the Player as leader the number 2 will take up position 1 nautical mile (1852 meters) wide right or wide left.

Using Comms to bring up the Comms Menu:

Then F1 to communicate with FLIGHT:

Then F8 for Small Tac Turns or F9 for Large Tac Turns.

On F8 are the straightforward directional turns:

And F9 more complex turns:

“Turnabout” is a 180 in-place turn.

“Rotate” is also a 180 turn but both aircraft turn inwards.

“Shackle” is an inwards turn to swap sides.

Widen and Close Up commands move the No 2 500m to a new datum - as leader Players will learn to adjust this depending on visibility and experience.

AI Tac Turns.pdf

[CommandT]

It would be super useful to have voice recognition commands for all of these since in the heat of the moment going through the F10 menu is a pain to say the least. 

Either way a very welcome change. Does the AI slot back into their position automatically after a while? If you command them to make an in place x-degree turn but that doesn't line up perfectly with what Lead has done, does the AI know they then need to adjust to get back into position somehow? 

[sleighzy]

1 hour ago, CommandT said:

 

It would be super useful to have voice recognition commands for all of these since in the heat of the moment going through the F10 menu is a pain to say the least. 

 

You can use VAICOM PRO a plug-in for VoiceAttack for this. 

[PeneCruz]

1 hour ago, CommandT said:

Does the AI slot back into their position automatically after a while? If you command them to make an in place x-degree turn but that doesn't line up perfectly with what Lead has done, does the AI know they then need to adjust to get back into position somehow? 

Yes they do, if you get them to execute and it gets a bit out of shape they will move back into the correct position, I found they tend to do a pretty good job if you as lead actually do what you are supposed to do. Shackle is a good example, you must also make the turn towards them.

Try Vaicom Pro the free plugin for Voice Attack and stay keyboard free. 

[SDsc0rch]

please make the terminology American 

[draconus]

Great addition, thanks

[fagulha]

It was available at least since last patch. I did a sortie last weekend with my beloved Hornet and tried it for the first time.

Awesome, and thank you for your work ED.

[Coxy_99]

Dont change nothing unless its bugged pretty cool feature.

[pchater]

VoiceAttack / VAICOM Pro has updated to reflect this

[Hud5son]

How do we set up the formation starting position?  Am I missing something or should we not have "Battle Left"  and "Battle Right" as options in the menu.   I used line abreast as a starting point but not sure if this is complicating anything. 

Also, have been testing out the basic smaller turns.

I note that if I request a 90 right and the AI is starting in "battle left"  (i.e. he initiates a right turn towards me)  - it doesn't seem to recognize that it should have switched to "battle right" after it changes sides in the turn, as it immediately switches back to where it started from.  

In the the opposite  case, i.e.  I lead the turn into him, he correctly responds, we both crossover but he then stays in the correct position on the opposite side.   

[SDsc0rch]

tac left/right 

[Hud5son]

cant see that in the menu, sorry if being thick

 

[Dragon1-1]

2 hours ago, pchater said:

VoiceAttack / VAICOM Pro has updated to reflect this

Does it just copy DCS menu verbatim, as usual, or can we use US terms as well?

[PeneCruz]

1 minute ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Can we? Was it already updated for the new functionality? Because last time I checked, VAICOM didn't autogenerate these things.

If they do, it should include US phrasing, too. I noticed an annoying tendency for it to copy the text in DCS exactly, even when it's incorrect.

It was added in the last vaicom update v3.0.0.0, see pages 63 and 64 of the Vaicom Pro maual.
At the moment it has the same commands as the DCS menu, and additional ones for Flow East, South, West etc. I will add US phraslogy in a future update. As it is only me coding I have only so much bandwidth to make additions.

[Smashy]

1 minute ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Does it just copy DCS menu verbatim, as usual, or can we use US terms as well?

I'm planning on adding the new tac turn commands to my homegrown Voice Attack profile and am interested in using US calls as well.  Anyone have any idea how these new commands would translate?

[Dragon1-1]

Turnabout left/right -> in place left/right, or hook left/right (USN and USAF, respectively)
Rotate -> cross turn
90 left/right -> tac left/right (though 90 left/right is correct, too, as it is for other angles)
30 left/right -> check left/right 30
Widen -> Kickout (USAF, not sure about USN)

Shackle is the same everywhere, as is Close Up. Note that this list is compiled from various sources, including CNATRA docs, Speed and Angels, and the other Viper sim.

[Smashy]

Much appreciated, @Dragon1-1.

[SDsc0rch]

widen >> float 

[Avenger31]

2 hours ago, Hud5son said:

cant see that in the menu, sorry if being thick

 

Me too, something weird with the update or I am just a dumb?

[cesarferrolho]

22 minutes ago, Avenger31 said:

Me too, something weird with the update or I am just a dumb?

Same here!!

I have no mods installed except Tacview, and flying lead on a 2 ship. And i can see other (Very good) changes like the corrections to the S-3B Tanker.

[Vee.A]

8 hours ago, CommandT said:

It would be super useful to have voice recognition commands for all of these since in the heat of the moment going through the F10 menu is a pain to say the least. 

Either way a very welcome change. Does the AI slot back into their position automatically after a while? If you command them to make an in place x-degree turn but that doesn't line up perfectly with what Lead has done, does the AI know they then need to adjust to get back into position somehow? 

By the way, in case you didn't know, there's been a feature for a while now that lets you navigate the menu with HOTAS binds. It also takes priority over other binds while the menu is up, so you don't need modifiers. They also seem to break it, so don't use them.

[Nealius]

6 hours ago, SDsc0rch said:

please make the terminology American 

+1. RAF bias with no modern RAF aircraft modules makes no sense. All our fast jet BLUFOR modules are American except for the Mirage pair and Viggen.

Edited February 20 by Nealius

[oz555]

9 hours ago, Hud5son said:

How do we set up the formation starting position?  Am I missing something or should we not have "Battle Left"  and "Battle Right" as options in the menu.   I used line abreast as a starting point but not sure if this is complicating anything. 

Also, have been testing out the basic smaller turns.

I note that if I request a 90 right and the AI is starting in "battle left"  (i.e. he initiates a right turn towards me)  - it doesn't seem to recognize that it should have switched to "battle right" after it changes sides in the turn, as it immediately switches back to where it started from.  

In the the opposite  case, i.e.  I lead the turn into him, he correctly responds, we both crossover but he then stays in the correct position on the opposite side.   

I have a similar question.

For RAF low level/Cold War era: Following take-off and gear-up, the Wingman would usually be pushed out from arrow to a 1nm line abreast. The radio menu/formation/line abreast command pushes your Wingman out 1.5nm to Starboard, which can be adjusted incrementally down to 1nm with the "close" command. A menu faff, but all good so far. Following a left 90 Tac command, our AI Wingman initiates and completes the 90 and gets himself into line abreast left, then returns to line abreast right, when he should be staying in position on the left. If I give no command at all at mission start, my AI Wingman stays in trail.

What is the command for Battle Formation?

We could really do with some keybinds or flight plan automation for the Tac Turn commands, as they would usually be dictated by the flight plan and not radio calls. For example, a 90 left would be initiated in radio silence by the Starboard aircraft at around 1.5nm from the waypoint at 420kts.

Great to see this in DCS, by the way. Huge single-player improvement if it can be implemented well at a low level.

[DCSFonzie]

Two questions:

1) Will the wingman use MIL during the tac turns?
2) What is the parameter used? Maintaining initial speed through whatever G is required or 4-5G regardless of speed loss during the turn?

Thank you!

[oz555]

46 minutes ago, DCSFonzie said:

Two questions:

1) Will the wingman use MIL during the tac turns?
2) What is the parameter used? Maintaining initial speed through whatever G is required or 4-5G regardless of speed loss during the turn?

Thank you!

Maintain speed throughout the turn at 3.5g- 4g. Usually up to full mil power required until the turn opens out. I made a video a while back which roughly covers the procedure. I have skipped it to the relevant point which covers the take-off formation, push out to line abreast and a few Tac-Turns.  

 

Edited February 20 by oz555