understanding awacs

[dooom]

two common calls they use:

 

bandits bearing XXX for YYY

 

and

 

something about Pop-up

 

what do these mean? I understand the bearing part - whats the YYY part mean and what is pop up?

 

thanks

[The Beast]

YYY= distance from you.

 

And Pop Up means they just appeared,

[roob]

I can add with "Hot", "Cold" and "Flanking" is their vector relative to you (hot - coming towards your direction etc).

[crazyeddie]

Is there a bit of code in there for ... Run Away Run Away, there's lots of them.

 

Sorry, switching back to Serious Mode from Flippant Mode.

[EtherealN]

"Enfield 11, Olympus, Bandits bearing 221 for 65, angels medium, hot."

 

Enfield 11 - you

Olympus - the one talking, ie AWACS

Bandits - confirmed hostiles (unknowns would be bogey)

Bearing 221 - compass heading 221 from you, not from AWACS

for 65 - 65nm from you, effectively "you want to go heading 221 for 65 nm"

angels medium - medium altitude

hot - as previously mentioned, they're heading towards you. Flanking would be equidistant - they're keeping the same distance to you which would indicate a flanking manuver. Cold would be nose away. Note that they'll be "cold" even if they are nose-away but you are fast enough to be catching up. Also note that "towards you" doesn't mean directly towards you, it means their nose is roughly - very roughly - pointed your way. They'll be "hot" even if you are running away faster than they are going, as long as their nose is pointed your way.

Edited May 24, 2010 by EtherealN

[SFJackBauer]

EDIT: I was wrong, corrected by Ethereal below.

Edited May 24, 2010 by SFJackBauer

[EtherealN]

Bauer, wrong.

 

Review attached miz file. Start it, ask AWACS, get "cold", then F2 to the bandit and notice that AWACS reported the bandit cold while it was hot on the AWACS but cold on you.

hotcold.miz

[dooom]

thanks fellas - one other noob question though... what he heck s a "nm" in metric distance? Why is that unit used and not km?

[dooom]

NM about the "nm".... google is my friend:

 

In case other noobs wonder about it. From Wikipedia:

 

The nautical mile (symbol M, NM, Nm or nmi) is a unit of length corresponding approximately to one minute of arc of latitude along any meridian. By international agreement it is exactly 1,852 meters (approximately 6,076 feet).

It is a non-SI unit (although accepted for use in the SI by the BIPM) used especially by navigators in the shipping and aviation industries,[1] and also in polar exploration. It is commonly used in international law and treaties, especially regarding the limits of territorial waters. It developed from the sea mile and the related geographical mile.

The nautical mile remains in use by sea and air navigators worldwide because of its convenience when working with charts. Most nautical charts are constructed on the Mercator projection whose scale varies by approximately a factor of six from the equator to 80° north or south latitude. It is, therefore, impossible to show a single linear scale for use on charts on scales smaller than about 1/80,000.[2] Since a nautical mile is, for practical navigation, the same as a minute of latitude, it is easy to measure a distance on a chart with dividers, using the latitude scale on the side of the chart directly to the east or west of the distance being measured.

[EtherealN]

google.com

enter "one nautical mile in kilometres"

 

;)

 

As for why? For the same reason feet and knots are used. They just are.

[SFJackBauer]

Bauer, wrong.

 

Review attached miz file. Start it, ask AWACS, get "cold", then F2 to the bandit and notice that AWACS reported the bandit cold while it was hot on the AWACS but cold on you.

 

:thumbup: That's correct, edited my post to not mislead people.

[VTJS17_Fire]

"Enfield 11, Olympus, Bandits bearing 221 for 65, angels medium, hot."

 

If we had a good-skilled controller, he would say:

"Enfield 11, Olympus, Single Group BRAA 221, 65, 14 Thousand*, Bandit."

 

*(or any other medium altitude)

 

BRAA = Bearing, Range, Altitude (in feet, not around), Aspect

 

The aspect is only called, if not hot (flank, beam, drag, cold).

And the "risk level" is (friendly, bogey, bandit, hostile) ... a "bandit" is a enemy, that could be a target and a "hostile" is a target. Bogey is unknown ID.

 

A single group is a group with contacts in range of a 3nm radius.

So, if you have a close-formation 2-ship, it's a "Single Group BRAA ..., two contacts, side-side (or any other inner group formation)." but if you have 2 pilots with 5nm in a lead-trail formation, it's a "Two Groups, Range 5, Lead Group BRAA ..., Trail Group 20 Thousand.".

 

And a Pop-up Group is normally a group in the "NoNewPicture Range" (most 40nm), not any group which pop up. :smilewink:

 

 

kind regards,

fire

[razgriz33]

that's what braa means.

 

is there a good guide from start to finish regarding AWACS, regarding picture. bogey dope etc etc?

 

this thread has helped me already

[NineLine]

Dont forget Merged.... that usually means I am about to blow up :)

[Robin_Hood]

If we had a good-skilled controller, he would say:

"Enfield 11, Olympus, Single Group BRAA 221, 65, 14 Thousand*, Bandit."

 

*(or any other medium altitude)

 

BRAA = Bearing, Range, Altitude (in feet, not around), Aspect

 

The aspect is only called, if not hot (flank, beam, drag, cold).

And the "risk level" is (friendly, bogey, bandit, hostile) ... a "bandit" is a enemy, that could be a target and a "hostile" is a target. Bogey is unknown ID.

 

A single group is a group with contacts in range of a 3nm radius.

So, if you have a close-formation 2-ship, it's a "Single Group BRAA ..., two contacts, side-side (or any other inner group formation)." but if you have 2 pilots with 5nm in a lead-trail formation, it's a "Two Groups, Range 5, Lead Group BRAA ..., Trail Group 20 Thousand.".

 

And a Pop-up Group is normally a group in the "NoNewPicture Range" (most 40nm), not any group which pop up. :smilewink:

 

 

kind regards,

fire

 

Exactly. It would be nice it the AWACS controller used standard wording and procedures. But I suppose a complete picture would be hard to do (even Falcon 4 doesn't do that, BTW), with group labels and formations (Champagne, Box, etc...). But at least correct BRAAs would get people used to the right procedure.

 

Anyway, I'd add: if number of contacts is not called, 2-ship is assumed.

 

For anyone interested, standard USAF calls are described in AFTTP 3-1.1, Attachment 1. It matches up nicely with Red Flag comms that you can find (that is... except when the controllers/pilot screw up :doh: - I have a really cool audio clip where an F-16 is pissed off and tells the controller that he must have a Bullseye call on the hostile, not a BRAA)

[walker450]

Could someone please elaborate on the altitude description (high, med, low)?

 

Is this relative to your aircraft or is there a specific range in MSL that is constant?

 

I have read through the manual for FC1 but it has been a while. :)

[Cali]

Could someone please elaborate on the altitude description (high, med, low)?

 

Is this relative to your aircraft or is there a specific range in MSL that is constant?

 

I have read through the manual for FC1 but it has been a while. :)

 

Low is something like under 10,000 feet

 

Med is around 10-25k

 

High is above that

 

Someone will correct me on the heights, cause I'm sure they are wrong by a few feet. But you get the point.

[Ironhand]

Different fighter communities define low, medium, and high differently. But generally I think the low altitude block runs from 0-11,999 feet. The medium altitude block runs from 12,000-19,999 feet. And the high block is 20,000 feet and above.

 

 

Rich

[walker450]

Thanks! I may setup a test mission to see for sure. If I do, I will share the results!

[golfsierra2]

thanks fellas - one other noob question though... what he heck s a "nm" in metric distance? Why is that unit used and not km?

 

Also from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States):

... the United States does not commonly mandate the use of SI, making it, according to the CIA Factbook, one of three countries that has not adopted the International System of Units (SI) metric system as their official system of weights and measures, along with Burma (Myanmar) and Liberia.

 

.. an endless story...