Will trackir be worth it just for DCS A-10C

[kingneptune117]

I have yet to buy a track ir. I hear from everyone how amazing it is, and that they cannot fly without it. I have been using the tophat on my X52 for head movement. Do you think the DCS A-10C will make great use of trackir?

 

Also, when I buy track ir, do I need to wear a hat? Can I hook it onto my headset without buying that stupid expensive attachment.

[Kaiza]

I am a firm believer in trackir. Yep it does seem overpriced, but in my opinion it is worth it. Unfortunately the over priced attachment is worth the extra too. The standard reflectors get seduced by lights in your room and sometimes causes the trackir to go a little haywire. The attachment makes it very accurate end totally trouble free.

[kingneptune117]

wtf its $150! Thats insane! Just because natural point has monopoly on the head track market they think they can jack up the price 15 times what it should be. I bet the total cost for them to manufacture one unit is around $15...

[Bwaze]

Maybe. But I doubt it. It's high speed IR camera with it's own processor so the computer gets only mouse-like input from it.

 

I have tried FreeTrack, and it worked - but was never satisfied with responsiveness and CPU load.

 

Try to get used TrackIR 4, if new TrackIR 5 seems too expensive. But there's not many around. It's a wonderful device, and after using it for a while other components feel overpriced. :) Joysticks and various HOTAS can be more expensive, and they are usually much simpler devices.

 

And buy the attachment (TrackClip PRO) only if you need it. It's useful, but not necessary if your room doesn't get direct sunshine.

[Revvin]

TrackIR is worth every penny. I don't like flying without it. As Bwaze said its more than just a camera its a sophisticated device and its still the industry leader and the first choice for many sim pilots even though there are cheaper head tracking options out there because its simply the best.

[astrospud]

As all above have stated, it's worth it.

Give the expense of it the consideration you would a video card, or PSU upgrade for your rig.

It's going to be just as integral a part of your simming experience as any core component of your computer. A must have for simmers.

 

My $0.05...

[Vekkinho]

It's essential...I don't like playing without it.

[jerda]

Freetrack works great. I have no cpu issues. Its as smooth as silk and very responsive when u set it up right. I would highly recommend freetrack if you can solder, read and you are broke. If you are rich, sure, buy trackIR.

 

Freetrack is sophisticated software that works as good as you want. It does take some time to setup, but you can really tweak it out. I'd recommend the 3-point clip you can mount on your headphones.

 

 

I bet the total cost for them to manufacture one unit is around $15

Thats the truth.

 

check out.

www.free-track.net

Edited June 27, 2010 by jerda

[talisman]

Freetrack works great. I have no cpu issues. Its as smooth as silk and very responsive when u set it up right.

 

Thats the difference - TrackIR just works - no faffing about - plug it in and OMG its working! As an ex user of freetrack - i find the trackIR to be probably 20 times better.

 

After a week of using it - you will start shopping for games that use it - so "only A-10" wont count.

[Insanatrix]

I flew IL2 since it came out without a Track IR thinking eh I can make use of the POV hat switch. Then I bit the bullet and got the Track IR 5 around Feb. All I can say is im a retard for thinking I could make do with the hat switch haha. You think at first " well this is such a novelty item" but then once you use it for a week or 2 your like " I can't live without it!".

 

Also to whoever thought it's only 15 bucks to make one I highly doubt it. I would peg it more in the 70-90 dollar range to make it, and that's assuming pretty cheap TBH.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Insanatrix

[EtherealN]

Kingneptune, Naturalpoint do NOT have a "monopoly". Alternatives:

 

Freetrack (requires webcam)

Cachya (requires webcam)

 

There was another cheap one that was a complete set, but the one review I found back then thrashed it. Unfortunately I've forgotten it's name.

 

And by the way, don't make the mistake of assuming that NaturalPoint make all the money. Most sales are through various types of retail outlets. For example, in the case of retail computer games in my country - the one that takes the biggest cut out of each unit sold is actually the state. On a 50 dollar game sold in retail, 10 dollars go to the state, 10-ish to the store, and developer/publisher/importer/distributor shares the rest. (That's why we tend to advice people that purchasing directly from ED is the best idea for supporting them.)

 

Also, you don't only need to cover the production of the unit in a sale - you need to cover development, marketing, overhead, and every single step in the supply chain.

 

TrackIR is awesome. You pay a premium since it's genuine plug-and-play with a huge amount of games and extremely high-refreshrate/wide angle hardware - not only flight sims, but also Racing games as well as several shooters like ArmA. If you don't want to pay a premium, go for FreeTrack or Cachya.

[talisman]

Other alternative is VRinsight Hat Track

 

I have no idea if it works with DCS or FC2 though.

[Revvin]

I just don't see TrackIR as being so expensive for the immersion it gives for little fuss, it's certainly not a device only if you are rich - not when you consider how much we spend on this hobby

[Kaiza]

You cant base its value on the cost of the parts to make it though. I mean A-10C would only be worth the 20c DVD its printed on then. The money pays for the software, the integration and the countless hours of tuning.

[Boberro]

If you have money buy TiR - simply you just plug in adn it is ready to work. If you want to keep money make FT and you'll get almost same thing.

 

I'd buy TiR - I can afford it. But IMHO NP using monopolist position sets price highly over price which I think is fair. This made me to crete my own FT set and spend money elsewhere.

 

Kingneptune, Naturalpoint do NOT have a "monopoly".

 

Don't know it is true or not, but I've heard NP tried to convince games' developers to allow only NP products ect... wouldn't it be bad practice?

Edited June 27, 2010 by Boberro
grammar

[EtherealN]

Don't know it is true or not, but I've heard NP has tried to convince games' developers to allow only NP products ect... wouldn't it be bad practice?

 

Depends entirely.

For example, I would personally not have any objection to a deal in the style of "if you don't implement anything third-party we'll foot the bill for developing support". I don't know what the deals are, so I cannot say for sure - I can only speculate like everyone else.

 

But I do note that people sometimes manage to see "bad practice" in everything: for example Microsoft commiting the horrible sin of including a web browser in their operating system free of charge, or (horror!) a media player. Not saying that it's a direct equivalent, just want to indicate that people can and do find fault in anything and everything whenever they perceive it to be either "expensive" or "made by a rich company" or "made by someone that almost has a monopoly".

 

But for support: I don't know of any game developer that prohibits the use of non-NP trackers. One of the most often quoted cases actually comes from ED - but as you yourself have noted, FreeTrack and Cachya works fine in ED products.

[Slayer]

Games cost about $60.00 US now...you are lucky if you play them for more than 2 months unless they have good replay value like a sim and I bet you don't bat an eye at plunking down for a new game...

 

Anyways my point being you will get years of use out of a TrackIR...it's worth it.

[digital_steve]

Will trackir be worth it just for DCS A-10C?

I can answer that as i just bought trackIR 5 and the track clip last week.

Yes

In fact, it's worth it just for Falcon 4 AF (which i bought it for) and that doesn't have 6DOF

Yes the track clip pro is worth it

Yes it's potentially a lot of money, but you will get a lot of immersion and enjoyment from it and it will change the way you play any game/sim that utilises it (looking around easily in arma2 is just gold).

 

To put it bluntly, i'd rather have trackIR than a HOTAS.

 

Hope that helps mate

[Revvin]

Its a good point about the years of use. I'm still using the TrackIR 3 I bought many years ago, it still works flawlessly and still gets supported by Naturalpoint. A lot of manufacturers will just dump support once they launch a new product but Naturalpoint has not.

[Boberro]

Depends entirely.

For example, I would personally not have any objection to a deal in the style of "if you don't implement anything third-party we'll foot the bill for developing support". I don't know what the deals are, so I cannot say for sure - I can only speculate like everyone else.

 

Well it is monopoly step if so. It is obvious that game developer rather will be happy fot getting good deal, however end-users' opinion about developer is not hmmm well in this aspect.

 

But I do note that people sometimes manage to see "bad practice" in everything: for example Microsoft commiting the horrible sin of including a web browser in their operating system free of charge

 

I don't understand what problem is there.... I always used to use IE for Firefox dowload only :D

I don't see any bad practice here ;]

 

, or (horror!) a media player.

 

That I don't understand completely Oo

 

But for support: I don't know of any game developer that prohibits the use of non-NP trackers. One of the most often quoted cases actually comes from ED - but as you yourself have noted, FreeTrack and Cachya works fine in ED products.

 

I am not sure but FT has also its own implementation of work... in LO2 FT works only if you "crack" newinput.dll... if there was FreeTrack work implementation why wouldn't it be included in LO? I repeat I am not sure here about its own implementation, however it'd be good to check if so ;]

[JLZ]

But I do note that people sometimes manage to see "bad practice" in everything: for example Microsoft commiting the horrible sin of including a web browser in their operating system free of charge, or (horror!) a media player. Not saying that it's a direct equivalent, just want to indicate that people can and do find fault in anything and everything whenever they perceive it to be either "expensive" or "made by a rich company" or "made by someone that almost has a monopoly".

 

M$ practice to undermine 3rd party software by integrating their same-function software in OS made many court cases.

Here is (incomplete?) list.

It weren't people (users) who made complainants but companies. It weren't communities who make judgment but courts around world.

 

Its a good point about the years of use. I'm still using the TrackIR 3 I bought many years ago, it still works flawlessly and still gets supported by Naturalpoint. A lot of manufacturers will just dump support once they launch a new product but Naturalpoint has not.

 

Did you pay for Vector Expansion license or you are on 2DOF?

 

-----------------------------------------

 

Go with TIR if you can afford it or simply you want to.

 

Using FT is not crime and it is not 20x inferior to TIR.

More about NP vs FT here.

[combatace]

Depends entirely.

For example, I would personally not have any objection to a deal in the style of "if you don't implement anything third-party we'll foot the bill for developing support". I don't know what the deals are, so I cannot say for sure - I can only speculate like everyone else.

 

But I do note that people sometimes manage to see "bad practice" in everything: for example Microsoft commiting the horrible sin of including a web browser in their operating system free of charge, or (horror!) a media player. Not saying that it's a direct equivalent, just want to indicate that people can and do find fault in anything and everything whenever they perceive it to be either "expensive" or "made by a rich company" or "made by someone that almost has a monopoly".

 

But for support: I don't know of any game developer that prohibits the use of non-NP trackers. One of the most often quoted cases actually comes from ED - but as you yourself have noted, FreeTrack and Cachya works fine in ED products.

 

In 90s MS told IBM and compaq to use their web browser 'IE' or their license to MS OS will be abolished. The only rival at that time was Netscape which filed a case on MS for this and guess what, court ruled in the favor of Netscape. So adding IE was to abase Netscape. So it does not mean big brands are saints.

 

Sorry for going off topic.

[EtherealN]

Well it is monopoly step if so. It is obvious that game developer rather will be happy fot getting good deal, however end-users' opinion about developer is not hmmm well in this aspect.

 

No, it's not a "monopoly step". It's a business deal.

ED will (according to the interview at SimHQ if I recall correctly) make the TM Warthog HOTAS autodetect and autosetup in A10C. Are TM doing a "monopoly step" when other sticks will have to do what we've always done, and set things up ourselves?

 

...or are they just business partners from previous projects that decided to work together to make their products better? ;)

 

I don't understand what problem is there.... I always used to use IE for Firefox dowload only :D

I don't see any bad practice here ;]

 

You are an exception. Remember that Microsoft spent easily tens of millions of dollars, if not in the hundreds, defending their right to include Internet Explorer free of charge.

 

That I don't understand completely Oo

 

After a very very expensive court case in europe, Microsoft was forced by the european union to sell versions of Windows that does not have Windows Media Player, because they were "monopolising" the media player market with their horrible bundled products...

 

I am not sure but FT has also its own implementation of work... in LO2 FT works only if you "crack" newinput.dll... if there was FreeTrack work implementation why wouldn't it be included in LO? I repeat I am not sure here about its own implementation, however it'd be good to check if so ;]

 

I've not used FT myself, but my understanding is that you can set it up as a normal controller, and voila. The difference from TrackIR being that with FT you have a webcam, some tools, some LED components, skill to build it (easy, I know, but there are people out there that want things to "just work") and when done with that you have to set up the controls for the software.

 

With TrackIR, the more expensive option, it just works.

That simple, in my opinion.

 

Which is the topic of the thread as well, incidentally: is TrackIR worth it for just A10C? I personally would say: yes. My TrackIR4 works superbly, is supported by the TrackIR5 software, and the only problems I've ever had with it has been attributable to PEBKAC. Someone else might have a different financial situation, or different priorities (I'm a stag, so I've not got wife/children gobbling up my money, but the three cats do eat too much during winter :P ) might decide it's too expensive and get FreeTrack or Cachya etcetera instead. It's all about personal preference and personal resources, but this whole "evil evil naturalpoint" thing is old.

Edited June 28, 2010 by EtherealN

[Revvin]

Did you pay for Vector Expansion license or you are on 2DOF?

 

Yes I have the Vector Expansion

[Boberro]

No, it's not a "monopoly step". It's a business deal.

ED will (according to the interview at SimHQ if I recall correctly) make the TM Warthog HOTAS autodetect and autosetup in A10C. Are TM doing a "monopoly step" when other sticks will have to do what we've always done, and set things up ourselves?

 

...or are they just business partners from previous projects that decided to work together to make their products better? ;)

 

Well IMHO it is step to monopolization of product if you agree to do not include any 3rd solutions except X one. X will monopolize Y game.. I understand it in that way.:)

 

 

You are an exception. Remember that Microsoft spent easily tens of millions of dollars, if not in the hundreds, defending their right to include Internet Explorer free of charge.

 

Don't know if you understood me correctly... I meant I don't see anything wrong in IE in-built in Windows. You have possibility to choose another browser. Personally don't know who wants to browse the Internet and by the way let the Internet browse you :D

 

After a very very expensive court case in europe, Microsoft was forced by the european union to sell versions of Windows that does not have Windows Media Player, because they were "monopolising" the media player market with their horrible bundled products...

 

IMHO bad... again you have choose not to use WMP and download another. Don't know why not forbid Notepad and Paint too.

 

I've not used FT myself, but my understanding is that you can set it up as a normal controller, and voila. The difference from TrackIR being that with FT you have a webcam, some tools, some LED components, skill to build it (easy, I know, but there are people out there that want things to "just work") and when done with that you have to set up the controls for the software.

 

You set up this as TrackIR and it works. I made my FT by max hour including corrections :D

 

 

(I'm a stag, so I've not got wife/children gobbling up my money

 

There are many more advantages being free bird ^^

 

but the three cats do eat too much during winter :P )

 

I am cat lover... but I have 1. It eats much too ehehhe

 

"evil evil naturalpoint" thing is old

 

If NP hadn't overpriced its product ect... there wouldn't have been an "evil NP" topics :P