If you mastered DCS A-10C, could you hop into the real thing, run it up, and fly it?

[Callsign.Vega]

Do you mean having flown the A-10C sim but never a real aircraft? That might be an issue. Although, when I was 14 I had a couple thousand hours flying is MS Flight Simulator and Falcon 3.0. When I had my first Private pilot's flight at 14, I took off, did a pattern and landed with the instructor just guarding the controls in a 152.

 

Granted a 152 is surely no A-10C, but having thousands of hours of real flight time I don't think flying the A-10C would be that difficult after playing the sim. ;)

[Avilator]

Don't mind if i take this off topic a little...say you're on a commercial flight when suddenly, an airhostess burst out from the cockpit screaming they're all dead, oh god, can any of you land this montrosity!?! Would you raise your hand or perhaps both hands while jumping up and down delirious with joy? :D

 

That would be me! In a heartbeat.:pilotfly:

[Boneski]

Yes and No

 

Regarding none classified switchology... if a consumer simulation is an accurate representation of a certain aircraft's systems then it makes sense that you would have knowledge over that system if you tried to translate that knowledge to the real aircraft system.

 

The problem is that most game based sims don't simulate the process chain to include consequences accurately among other things. Some things are not needed for a good gaming experience.

 

So a good pc sim will give you some knowledge.. if it is not 100% accurate then it's pretty much useless in the real aircraft where your life depends on knowing your systems in every detail.

 

 

Regarding flying... as someone that has done both....high-tech heavy aircraft are much easier to fly /land then a light aircraft like a 172 ...

and the 172 is much easier to fly/land then a flight sim.

 

But all three are lots of fun and that's a fact!

[Avilator]

Don't mind any of these guys, just go to any USAF A-10 base and explain that you've mastered DCS A-10C, I'm sure they'll have no problem letting you in to fly that 12 million dollar? aircraft. No Problem. If you tell them you know Matt Wagner they may even let you load the ordinance and skip the pre-flight. Just make sure to be wearing your own mask, helmet and G-suit when you first approach the main gate. If you write a name on the side of your helmet like "Hotdog", "Starbuck" or "Chuckles" for example, they will stencil it onto the aircraft before you fly, but only if you have a receipt from a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog controller with you. :smilewink:

 

How violent was that landing if the gun came apart like that? Ouch!:crazy:

[crusty1606687734]

Since this is an extremely high fidelity simulator I like to think so. But I believe wags once said the engines start up process was 95% accurate because of some top secret things.

 

Well kingneptune, you'll be happy to know - it did happen! Not in an Hog tho' - in a tiny little A4 Skyhawk.

 

Place: El Toro MCAS (not there anymore:() Time: oh, about 25 years ago.

One of the maintainers who had high aspirations to go to flight training found out that his dreams wouldn't come true, so... on one sunny California day he decided to make it happen:pilotfly:

He took a little Skyhawk for a spin... not too far, just flew around, landed

and was escorted to a "career change" ceremony.

Don't ask me how he was able to start, get to active and so forth...

It did happen! He was an aviation fanatic and spent a lot of time in a sim.

(A4 I imagine)

Edited August 29, 2010 by *crusty

[Stretch]

I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring amongst all these people who flew FSX for years, then did their first real-life flight training in a 172. My experience is largely the same: I knew where everything was and how to work it -- instruments, radios, transponder, etc. I needed some assistance getting through the preflight checklist but I'm sure that, when you guys fantasize, you don't fantasize about the preflight. "Oh look at this Hog -- it's all preflighted and ready to go -- I just have to hop in and turn on the APU..."

 

So with a little preflight assistance I got her started up nice, taxi was just fine, radio work was OK, but I sounded more like a Falcon 4 pilot ("request takeoff") than a civvie pilot ("ready for takeoff"). Takeoff was fine too (MUCH better than my first takeoff in a tailwheel, god help me). Landing was even all right, if not pretty. Like everyone else said, I stare too much at the instruments, even today. :P

 

There were a few important things missing, though...

 

- Local procedures around Oakland airport. This is stuff they never model in the sim, stuff like VFR reporting points, typical departure and arrival procedures, shorthand names for prominent areas in and outside of the airport, etc.

 

- Checklist mentality. That structured, rigid mentality of rhythmic checklist completion. I am happy to say I took that back with me to the sim and it makes a big difference.

 

- Getting a "feel for it." This REALLY depends on the airplane. I was able to land a Cessna 172 my first time with no major issues, just some bounces, but that's because a blind idiot could probably land a 172 well enough. This is in stark contrast to when I first landed (attempted to land) a Cessna 182. The heavier engine requires a lot more finesse with airspeed and trim on final ... I would have killed myself if my instructor weren't there to save the day.

[hassata]

What stretch said. Take off, circuit, land first time with old school instructor riding the controls. Landing was hard, then he showed me how to keep holding it off. Solo'd on (iirc) fifth or sixth flight. Way too little time VFRing. He was constantly telling me to pick reference points so that I could maintain level in turns etc. without looking at instruments. For some reason, I found the 152 harder to land then the 172-squirily I guess.

 

Had a chance to aircombat usa. First engagement, I pulled to hard and ended up shaking ion verge of stall. Then the f18 pilot told me to gently pull and ride on the edge of the stall. Did really well after that, for which I credit the WWII sims.

 

But getting into an A10-big plane, loud, lots of switches, things happening quickly, I bet I would go off the runway on the take-off roll. Forget about the landing. Maybe a Hawker Hunter would be easier to fly with only sim time?

[Steel Jaw]

No you cant.

[CAT_101st]

With out a ground crew it will never happen. but I think that it would be posable to take off and fly around VFR mabe navagate some waypoints. and RTB now the landing I agre with not going to happen with just sim time. it is a feal thing that takes some real training befor trying on your own. But it is in the realm of posabillty with the right pilot's/person's.

[kingneptune117]

With out a ground crew it will never happen. but I think that it would be posable to take off and fly around VFR mabe navagate some waypoints. and RTB now the landing I agre with not going to happen with just sim time. it is a feal thing that takes some real training befor trying on your own. But it is in the realm of posabillty with the right pilot's/person's.

 

i disagree. i think landing would be possible but not correct. if it were me, i would fly the approach at 20 knots above what it should be to eliminate the chance of me stalling, and also allowing me to put it down nice and easy. most runways are designed in case an emergency landing is needed , therefor needing more speed, therefore needing more room to stop.

[My Fing ID]

It seems like it wouldn't be that hard if you were easy on it and knew the instuments. I mean I gotta be honest, never been in the air, but it seems like if you were easy on the controls you could take off, fly, and land. Probably wouldn't be pretty, but with ils or whatever to help you land and a good distance it seems like you could do it. Then again I'm not betting my life on it. Worst I'll ever do in an A-10 after playing the sim is start the APU at an air show and that's only if I'm ready to get thrown to the ground, tazered, and spend some time in jail. Sure as hell not going to start the APU in a KA-50 in a Russian airshow. I've seen those Russian police videos and they do not screw around at all. You could stop in the street with your hands up and they'll break your teeth. Hell you could just be driving the same car as a suspected criminal and they'll break your car, and you of course.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYnyY2YSsOE

[element1108]

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_451a.html

 

An article on SIM HQ that sort of relates to what we're talking about.

[Sticky]

kingneptune are you planning on doing an Iron Eagle type of thing, but with an A-10? Is that what this is about? They have your dad somewhere and you want to get him out? ;)

[Randolf]

(note that I'm talking about pc flight sims in general here)

I have never flown a real plane, but I'd assume that even if a sim doesn't teach you how to truly fly, flying in it could make you faster at learning how to use the real thing. Things are always easier to learn and understand if you have seen or tried them before.

Another reason why virtual pilots would likely have problems flying a real plane is that they tend to self study. If nothing else, it can easily lead into bad habits that seem to work but can actually be dangerous. I'm quite certain that if a real pilot would first teach you how to fly using the simulator, you'd then be much better off learning how to use the real plane.

 

So yah, simulators and real world have their differences. At least when it comes to pc driving simulators, I find that doing either one can help doing the other one, but it doesn't (necessarily) alone make you good or even average at the other. For example, a real driver have much more at stake and more things to consider, but then again he can physically feel the movement of the car, which is a very important thing. A virtual driver lacks this ability. This means that a virtual driver does not learn how to use this feeling and a real driver will suffer from the lack of it when driving in a sim.

 

Anyway, what is a fact for both simulator flying and real flying, is that doing them increases your field of percetion and makes you better at multi tasking. This should be an useful ability for both virtual and real pilots, and maybe even help you drive more safely :P

Edited August 30, 2010 by Randolf

[Mercury]

I'd say its wiser to master parachuting out of a fighter jet first, cos thats gonna happen for sure. :pilotfly::joystick::doh:

[GGTharos]

No, you could not. Most (not all) flight sim pilots, especially those who just fly combat sims (me included! ;) ) plain suck at flying.

 

In short, you'd probably end up killing yourself at some point if you didn't get good instruction, unless you're very careful, you have things planned out and throught out ahead, you're disciplined, and you don't panic.

 

Since this is an extremely high fidelity simulator I like to think so. But I believe wags once said the engines start up process was 95% accurate because of some top secret things.

[Luke.S]

I know one thing military pilots (at least the army air corps) respect the DCS series. I was speaking to a trainee when I sat in a eurocopter squirl they train in and he asked me if I knew what the stuff was I said "I use DCS Black Shark" and he goes "Ah You know then."

 

In my head I was like woah I wonder if they get sim time on BS

[Scabbers]

Ok as far as jumping into an a10 this simulator is going to be detailed and functional. but in no means accurate. There are two many systems that are NOFORN (No Foriegn Dissemination) or Classified (Confidential, Secret, Top Secret). The avionics beyond basic flight aids would be useless with out an OFP load from the ground crew. Also bringing a compressor online invoilves a few more things in reality.

 

Flight skills Maybe. Basic flight and instrumentation is simular. As for Landing. If you understand landing wieghts and fuel load distribution and vertical speed rates for landing then maybe. but most likely you end up like that picture.

 

The real deal. You have to know how to do a before flight check. too many pins and flags that need to be removed. A hog pilot will go to basic flight school. he/she starts on a prop aircraft with an instructor and gets basic flight then moves to a jet trainer. Here they spend many simulator hours where they go through all sorts of emergency scenarios and practice with actual equipment in the pit(Simulator). After solo and advance platform training they goto final platform school. This is where they start A10 Fam & I. They learn systems and the aircraft. Then they start flight training. All of this takes about 2-3 years. The school names escape me since i was navy. However the route is the same. Also they all goto SERE training before the intial deployment

 

So fellas you dream, and let the real thing goto the boys in the green flight suits.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Scabbers

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Ok as far as jumping into an a10 this simulator is going to be detailed and functional. but in no means accurate. There are two many systems that are NOFORN (No Foriegn Dissemination) or Classified (Confidential, Secret, Top Secret). The avionics beyond basic flight aids would be useless with out an OFP load from the ground crew. Also bringing a compressor online invoilves a few more things in reality.

 

Flight skills Maybe. Basic flight and instrumentation is simular. As for Landing. If you understand landing wieghts and fuel load distribution and vertical speed rates for landing then maybe. but most likely you end up like that picture.

 

The real deal. You have to know how to do a before flight check. too many pins and flags that need to be removed. A hog pilot will go to basic flight school. he/she starts on a prop aircraft with an instructor and gets basic flight then moves to a jet trainer. Here they spend many simulator hours where they go through all sorts of emergency scenarios and practice with actual equipment in the pit(Simulator). After solo and advance platform training they goto final platform school. This is where they start A10 Fam & I. They learn systems and the aircraft. Then they start flight training. All of this takes about 2-3 years. The school names escape me since i was navy. However the route is the same. Also they all goto SERE training before the intial deployment

 

So fellas you dream, and let the real thing goto the boys in the green flight suits.

 

That's for leaning how to become a fully trained combat pilot though, and that's not the question that was asked.

 

I've read a Hog pilot's views on flying the plane who said it's actually easy to take off / fly / land.

[Scabbers]

Maybe so but the real life hands on flight dynamics are way different. and I doubt you would even get the aircraft enignes started. There are many things that have to be done before flight. Not just open the canopy and pull down the ladder. Read the real deal again.

[hassata]

Bet you'd do a decent job in the full motion sim though.

[Scabbers]

The most painful thing I ever did in my life was get in the SH-3 Sim at NAS Jax. I crashed and I had bruises for weeks. :)

[Guest]

I'm sure many of the points I'll bring up here have been covered in some way during this long thread by people with much more experience than myself, but I feel like throwing in my .02 on the subject. I'm a newly minted private pilot with an extensive simulator background. I flew sims before I ever even thought about (really) taking up flying as a hobby, and found that after you begin flying -- even in training Cherokees or Cessnas -- there is simply no turning back to simulators as anything other than a game.

 

I think many people forget that simulators provide a very inaccurate portrayal of what flight is actually like. Despite complex physics calculations, accurate ballistic modeling, correctly modeled engine systems and start ups as well as a complete set of working avionics, all presented in a beautiful full-color facade, there is simply no comparison between sitting at a computer desk and sitting behind the controls of a real aircraft and sitting in it, let alone flying the thing.

 

Simulators can simulate just about everything except the human experience. The way your body feels in a bank, sight picture, interacting with other aircraft, talking to ATC, understanding that aircraft are flown through maneuvers and not ad hoc control inputs, getting a feel for those final few feet during your flare... the list can go on, as many here can attest to -- all seemingly minute events in an experience that is made up by a series of minute, very real events. The most real of which is fear, something very real in the cautious world of aviation.

 

The though of putzing around in an A-10 simulator (despite the fact it is probably going to be a hell of a lot of fun [i'm very excited]) and then climbing into one, despite having "mastered" the aircraft in-game, would take a pretty confident idiot. One who isn't afraid of dying, at that. Even if you could get the damn thing started, taxied, and on the line for takeoff, it's extremely unlikely that as those giant fans spin up you would maintain the confidence to push on rather than throttling down and dealing with the numerous illegalities you have inevitably gotten yourself into during this very expensive joy ride (as there is simply no other way to get your hands on an A-10). Takeoff? Good luck, as performing a smooth rotation and transition to climbing flight in such a large, powerful jet would require a considerable amount of coordination that no amount of sim time could possibly accumulate. So you've gotten yourself off the ground -- great, now what? Well, landing isn't a very sound option as you have a very limited sense of what 1) real landing procedures feel like 2) how to perform then accurately in the cockpit while having to juggle flying the plane and 3) what the landing *feels* like -- or, for that matter, what any stage of flight feels like.

 

In short, no. You could not get into an A-10 and just fly it. Could you start the engines and maybe understand the avionics equipment at an friendly level? Possibly. But that's about it.

 

A 172 might be a better start. :pilotfly:

[EtherealN]

and I doubt you would even get the aircraft enignes started.

 

If you have the same resources that a real pilot has (ground crew), you would have no problem at all starting the engines based on knowledge gained through DCS:A-10C Warthog.

 

The problem is not so much in "being able", the problem is in "doing it safely". Anyone who really studies the simulator would be technically able to start the thing, takeoff, fly, and land. They might very well be able to "kill stuff" with it too. (Obviously though, they'd not be mission qualified since there are classified things that are not included in the simulator, and they don't have the extensive tactical and airmanship training required.)

 

Everything you technically need to start the plane, start the avionics and get airborne is right in there. Actual flying skills though... They are "Bring Your Own", and if you don't have them, you are likely to put yourself in a situation where you not only wreck an expensive piece of kit, but also won't live to tell about it.

 

Think of it like a cockpit familiarization thing. I personally most enjoy the air conditioning (that's the most important item in any cockpit!). For actual flight in the "real thing" I'd choose to rely on my RL flight experience though, not my sim flight experience. ;)

 

...and for actual combat use, I'd want to get a proper education. :P

[Scabbers]

EtherealN here is a question for you. What would you have to remove during the safety walk around to facilitate flight? Not meaning this to be smart but throwing out a general requirement. There are many saftey pins and things that have to be removed not just the remove before flight pins on the ordnance. This is meant strictly rhetorical. i am not poking jabs just pointing out.