ZSU/ZU-23 tracers color

[Eddie]

No. Red tracers look red, becasue they are red.

 

Red shift/blue shift is an astronomical phenomenom, it effects Starts & galaxies moving at very high speed relative to the observer.

 

The effect at speeds & distances encountered on earth is so small you'd struggle to measure it, let alone see it.

[jib]

Edit: I researched it a bit more and stars and galaxies only redshift (or blue shift if moving towards you) because the actual space time is being stretched, motion never causes doppler effects in light waves only the stretching of space-time between the source and the observer.

“That as light travels through space and space expands, it causes the wavelength of that very light to expand, too. And that's how we learn about the history of cosmic expansion in our Universe. Again, it's expansion that's causing this redshift, and not motion. Hope this helps shed some light on some of the most confusing stuff out there!”

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/08/redshift_and_distance_in_the_e.php

Edited February 22, 2012 by jib
spelling

[swift]

In the videos posted before in this thread, appears to be a red shift in the tracers when moving away from the camera. Maybe is some chemical effect or caused by the lens? I wonder why the ZSU tracers aren't red in the sim then.

 

Thanks for the explanation gentlemen :)

[159th_Viper]

Colour depends on the composition of the pyrotechnic flare material used for the tracer round. Differs from country to country and indeed from round to round, ie 'dim-tracers', 'IR tracers' etc etc.

[Dejjvid]

The tracers are red because they are infact red. it doesn't matter if you see them from the rear, front or the sides.

 

[jib]

There was a mod that changed the tracer colours so they are more red, it is just an RGB value in a .lua file somewhere.

I will see if I can find it:

[Frostiken]

The first video of the ZSU is hilarious, why did they even bother putting up a target? Like, one in twenty bullets even hit the thing.

 

Watching the stream of lead is awesome, but the book excerpts... could they be any more melodramatic? That an F-15E would ever even be in any position to get hit by AAA seems incredulous in the first place, especially since we had so many countermeasures against the aging Soviet equipment by then that their radar was effectively filled with nothing but noise.

[swift]

Afaik the books excerpts report first hand experiences from the pilots who flew those missions, they're not fictional books. Strongly recommended btw.

[VFA41_Lion]

The first video of the ZSU is hilarious, why did they even bother putting up a target? Like, one in twenty bullets even hit the thing.

 

Watching the stream of lead is awesome, but the book excerpts... could they be any more melodramatic? That an F-15E would ever even be in any position to get hit by AAA seems incredulous in the first place, especially since we had so many countermeasures against the aging Soviet equipment by then that their radar was effectively filled with nothing but noise.

 

Yeah, Strike Eagle crews dont need AAA to lose their plane, just their own incompetence brings it down. :music_whistling:

[roob]

Four pages and no one have yet explained why the less-than-appealing yellow tracers are in the game ^^

[VFA41_Lion]

I tried changing the ZU-23 shell to tracer_color_red but it was still yellow, and I couldn't find a line in the .lua file that matched any RGB type thingies or hex value. So I am sad too. :(

[159th_Viper]

Four pages and no one have yet explained why the less-than-appealing yellow tracers are in the game ^^

 

The relevant Dev had to pick a colour - turned out it was yellow. Not all tracers are red :)

[3instein]

tracer colour

 

The tracers are red because they are infact red. it doesn't matter if you see them from the rear, front or the sides.

 

I am sure it does matter where you observe the tracer round from eg:

As the tracer round has the lighty up bit in the rear of the projectile only the person firing can see where the round is going so the person on the receiving end can't spot where the firer's position is.At least I think so.:)

[159th_Viper]

As the tracer round has the lighty up bit in the rear of the projectile only the person firing can see where the round is going so the person on the receiving end can't spot where the firer's position is.At least I think so.:)

 

Nope - you can always see where it's coming from. Subdued tracers counter this to a certain extent as they ignite fully after the fact, making it somewhat more difficult to locate the rifleman. IR tracers are invisible to the naked eye.

[Rusty_M]

I always liked the phrase "tracers work both ways"

[BlueRidgeDx]

The first video of the ZSU is hilarious, why did they even bother putting up a target? Like, one in twenty bullets even hit the thing.

 

One in twenty is enough when you throw a thousand rounds downrange. I assume you're familiar with how CBU's work?

 

...but the book excerpts... could they be any more melodramatic? That an F-15E would ever even be in any position to get hit by AAA seems incredulous in the first place

 

You might want to tell that to the F-15E that was shot down by AAA on 17 Jan 1991.

 

We also lost an F-4 and an F-16 to AAA on 19 Jan and 27 Feb, respectively.

 

...especially since we had so many countermeasures against the aging Soviet equipment by then that their radar was effectively filled with nothing but noise.

 

An F-15E was shot down by an SA-2 on 19 Jan 1991, so ECM didn't save him - or three F-16's, an A-10 and an F-117 lost to radar guided SAMs since then.

[KLR Rico]

...and an F-117 lost to radar guided SAMs...

 

So much for "stealth" huh? :music_whistling:

 

Off to Google, that sounds pretty interesting. :smartass:

[OutOnTheOP]

Well... not exactly. The F-117 was lost to volley fire of SA-3s by a command-guided system. The missile itself was not homing on a radar return, it was manually guided onto a known flight path.

 

NPOSuperhornet, you make it sound as if the F-15E itself, or USAF pilot training, has some kind of inherent flaw that leads to crashes. Last I checked, pretty much every combat aircraft type has had error-induced mishaps. At least when the USAF has a crash, they don't do so into a crowd of spectators...

[Tucano_uy]

Do the advantages of tracers really compensate the disadvantages of them? I believe that in both DCS titles I would be shot down a lot more by AAA if there were no tracers. Also, what's the need of tracers in a radar guided system (unless it is being aimed manually)?

[roob]

Do the advantages of tracers really compensate the disadvantages of them? I believe that in both DCS titles I would be shot down a lot more by AAA if there were no tracers. Also, what's the need of tracers in a radar guided system (unless it is being aimed manually)?

 

Well it might be harder to spot, but the shooter will have no idea how far off the rounds are actually coming. No reason to waste thousands of rounds to keep the element of surprise if all rounds are going off-target :)

[Tucano_uy]

Well, the bullets shouldn't go much off target if the guns are properly aimed. What I mean is, in DCSW, une never gets shot down by an isolated AAA gun or two unless something stupid is made, like not jinking or getting too close. It seems more a nuisance than a real problem. However, if I couldn't see the tracers, the story would be different.

[jib]

Heres the thread about the old tracer mod I was talking about: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=51698&page=15

 

its for FC2 so there might not be a comparibal file in DCS-A10. It will also ruin you integrity check so you would be able to use it online.

 

Hi

Here's some screen shots. And the current shell_table I'm using.

..........

shell("GAU8_30_AP", _("GAU8_30_AP"), {

model_name = "tracer_bullet_white", white or yellow

v0 = 950.0,

Dv0 = 0.0060,

Da0 = 0.0017,

Da1 = 0.0,

mass = 0.360,

explosive = 0.01, dont go above 0.035, currently using 0.02

life_time = 31,

caliber = 30.0,

AP_cap_caliber = 15.0,

s = 0.0,

j = 0.0,

l = 0.0,

charTime = 0,

cx = {0.5,0.80,0.90,0.080,2.15},

k1 = 5.7e-09,

tracer_off = 4, tried 9 & 20, time to live of trace effect. 4sec seems reasonable

scale_tracer = 1,

name = "30mm AP",

 

model_name = have tried the others

tracer_off ............time to live of trace effect

explosive ...........is the key to get rid of ricochet & add visual impact graphics dont go above 0.035

 

Cheers Shad

[roob]

Well, the bullets shouldn't go much off target if the guns are properly aimed. What I mean is, in DCSW, une never gets shot down by an isolated AAA gun or two unless something stupid is made, like not jinking or getting too close. It seems more a nuisance than a real problem. However, if I couldn't see the tracers, the story would be different.

 

Now I have no idea of how to aim and how the aiming works in an AAA but I find it hard to believe that anyone in real life always aims spot on when an aircraft comes along (seeing as the wars are still fought with jets). And while our beloved AI surely can aim like a god even without tracers, I highly doubt that's the case IRL :)

[159th_Viper]

I highly doubt that's the case IRL :)

 

Targeting done via Computer in a lot of instances, so in a roundabout way, yeah, it is A.I. targeting you, even in RL.

[VFA41_Lion]

Well... not exactly. The F-117 was lost to volley fire of SA-3s by a command-guided system. The missile itself was not homing on a radar return, it was manually guided onto a known flight path.

 

NPOSuperhornet, you make it sound as if the F-15E itself, or USAF pilot training, has some kind of inherent flaw that leads to crashes. Last I checked, pretty much every combat aircraft type has had error-induced mishaps. At least when the USAF has a crash, they don't do so into a crowd of spectators...

 

Actually, that was a dig at Frostiken, who takes every chance to troll the F/A-18. ;)

 

Anyways, turns out I did manage to get red tracers working:

 

 

Unfortunately, they only appear red/orange when viewed at a distance. Zoomed in they're right back to yellow.