Cougar Owner asks: Do I REALLY need Warthog?

[twobells]

Hey all

 

Ok, I have put up my unused Cougar (had RSI at the time) up on Ebay but wonder do I REALLY need the warthog version?

 

I'd like to ask Cougar/Warthog owners what is your take?

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

TB

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150522512042&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_926wt_1139

[Steel Jaw]

If I had the cash I would buy it.

 

I have had a Cougar since 2001 and it is JUNK.

[twobells]

So you're saying the build quality is better/tactile control better or?

 

Also, isn't the Warthog dedicated to one aircraft type?

[effte]

The Cougar is a great stick, even if the manufacturing quality does leave something to wish for and it may require modifications to be all it can be. Still head and shoulders above everything else on the market and never let me down with the unfathomable possibility for adapting it through scripting. It also provides unparallelled tactile feedback.

 

The Warthog is awesome. My Cougar needs upgraded internals as the play has just gotten too significant as of lately, so the Warthog was the easy route to go for me. Still miss the stiff springs though. However, if you have a Cougar which you are happy with and if you don't require the split throttle, I'd see no reason to replace it. The Warthog is better, but the Cougar does the same job and does it well... with some TLC every now and then, and some Aussie replacement parts. :) I considered getting an NxT upgrade instead of the Warthog, but decided to go all-in, as few other items have kept me happy for ten years in the same way the Cougar did.

 

I do wish the Mad Dentist was still involved though! At first, it was stated he would be, but I haven't seen him mentioned lately.

[topdog]

I haven't owned a cougar, but I could just say that if the cougar WAS as good as the warthog (which I do have), I would a) have kicked myself for not getting one before, and b) kicked everyone else for having kept it a secret :p

 

Regarding being 'dedicated' to the craft, not really, since these aren't the original A10 flight stick / throttle anyway, the A10c borrowed them from other craft (though people talk about a loss of rotaries compared to f16 controls on the stick as being a difference?). I'm finding it a little weird getting used to with Blackshark, though the flight quality improvement offsets that by the bucket load.

Edited November 20, 2010 by topdog

[sweinhart3]

I would say the Warthog is as exclusive to A-10 as Cougar was to F-16. Yes it resembles the controls but nothing says you cant use it in any other sim.

[MTFDarkEagle]

I use my warthog for dcs: a-10c, ka-50, fsx, il2, lomac and falcon 4 :)

The hotas warthog is great!!

I'm working on a review with pictures etc, for anyone who is interested :)

[Cali]

You might want to read this also.......http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=61569

[Slammin]

I'm currently using my Cougar U2/NXT stick base with the Warthog handle. Don't get me wrong, the Warthog base feels much better than a stock Cougar, but not near as good as the U2/NXT.

 

The Warthog spring does indeed have the 'bump' at the center position and since I usually do all my precision flying and gunning right around center, the bump is a little distracting. You do not get any bumps when traversing X/Y at any point away from center. The stock Cougar had the bump whenever you crossed any axis, regardless of the position of the stick. The Warthog only has it at the center but nowhere else. It is definitely a lot better than the stock Cougar in this regard and does feel great. Again, I just prefer the zero-bump-anywhere that the U2/NXT provides.

 

If you have a stock Cougar, the Warthog is definitely an upgrade. If you have a Cougar with U2/NXT mod, the Warthog is still an upgrade, mostly due to the sexy throttle, and button feel on both the throttle and stick. You do lose the ANT/ELEV and RNG trim wheels with the Hog but it took me no time in getting used to using the Hog's throttle friction adjuster for zoom as opposed to the ANT/Elev wheel on the Cougar throttle.

 

Also, realize that I HAVE to keep my Cougar base connected anyway since that is what my RCS is attached to, but if I had separate rudders, I'd still use the Cougar base because of the U2/NXT mod just feels better to me.

[Raz_Specter]

Interesting.... I am also considering a warthog system, currently I have the Cougar HOTAS and have been very happy with it.

 

I am a little concerned that Cali has posted a link to comments from people saying that they have lost there throttle becuase of firmware problems.

 

$500 is a little high to be paying for something that could just be a paper weight.

 

thanks Mithandra

[effte]

No transitions at all passing through the axis neutral points or the center points with the Nxt mod? It still centers OK? How are the forces, as stiff as the original or softer?

 

If so, I could almost see myself using a Nxt modded cougar with the WH handle, to get the forces back...

[Slammin]

The Nxt mod has no center point that you can actually feel. Ian made two sets of springs availble, weaker, and stronger. I have never tried it with the stronger springs. With the weaker springs, it takes about the same effort to to move the Nxt as it does to move the Hog, once you get a ways beyond center. Beyond center, the resistance increases the futher from center, just as the original Cougar works. At the extremes, it feels about the same as the Hog does but note that the Hog resistance does not vary.

 

Also, sorry for the confusion. The Hog stick handle will not fit into the Cougar base. The plug is different on the Hog stick itself. The Cougar handle will work with the Hog base, but I'm not sure who would want to do that. Maybe if you just like the way the Cougar buttons feel compared to the Hog?

 

I keep going back and forth between the Hog stick and the Cougar stick. I want to get used to the Hog stick because in the long run, it is just going to be easier to manage I think when it comes to creating profiles. I can still use Foxy and the Cougar base/stick, along with the Hog throttle and as long as I load a Foxy profile into the Cougar, things work very well with A-10 beta3.

 

Again, the Hog feel is lightyears ahead of a stock Cougar. I guess I'm spoiled, like those CH guys are too, that don't have that annoying center bump to deal with.

[Joe]

Also, sorry for the confusion. The Hog stick handle will not fit into the Cougar base. The plug is different on the Hog stick itself. The Cougar handle will work with the Hog base, but I'm not sure who would want to do that.

Huh? The Cougar and Warthog stick bases and handles are interchangeable, in both directions. If you think about it, if they are interchangeable in one direction, it has to work in the other direction as well.

 

I just put my Warthog handle on my Cougar base and it fit just fine.

[BaD CrC]

Went from an old unmodded cougar to the warthog and it made a world of difference in the way I am flying BS. If you can afford it, do not hesitate.

[Slammin]

Huh? The Cougar and Warthog stick bases and handles are interchangeable, in both directions. If you think about it, if they are interchangeable in one direction, it has to work in the other direction as well.

 

I just put my Warthog handle on my Cougar base and it fit just fine.

 

 

The Warthog base accepts the Cougar handle but the Cougar base does not accept the Warthog handle. If you look at the connector on the stick handles, the Warthogs is perfectly round, and so is the Warthog bases' socket. The plug on the Cougar stick is not perfectly round, and neither is the socket on the Cougar base.

 

This allows the Cougar handle to fit into the Hog base, but the Hog handle cannot go into the Cougar base. I don't know why TM did this but it's not a huge deal since the handles are so similar anyway.

[Kuky]

Stock Cougar -> Warthog = Good upgrade

Moded Cougar -> Warthog = not worth it at all and in fact Moded Cougar is THE BEST and I should know as I've the Cougar ever since it first came out and I have the IJ's gimbal mod and hall sensors, plus I've made DIY hall sensor on the throttle also.

 

THE one thing i really like about the Cougar is IT IS modable for the gimbals... the Foxy software is very good and the feel of it is great when flying with it.... but unmoded Cougar is not worth in my opinion.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Kuky

[Teej]

The Warthog base accepts the Cougar handle but the Cougar base does not accept the Warthog handle.

 

Incorrect. I've done it. Works fine....with both the early pre-production Warthog stick and the release version.

 

Only thing that doesn't work is the Cougar base doesn't know how to deal with the new button press (H4 push)

[Slammin]

It seemed like it was working but it kept doing weird things, like the trigger being held constantly, or no buttons working all of a sudden. After I took a closer look, it seems like the Hog handle does not go in far enough into the Cougar base. I am afraid of forcing it. I'll take a closer look because really, I like the Hog stick better but I also like the Cougar base better right now.

 

edit:

I just tried again. When I connect the Hog stick to the Cougar base, none of the buttons work. It's as if it's just not seating all the way. I wonder if it could be that the Nxt shaft is slightly different from a stock Cougar shaft in the connector area? Also, upon further inspection, both the plug and socket on either appear identical. I cannot tell why the Hog stick will not seat fully into the Cougar base.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Slammin

[Teej]

I just tried again. When I connect the Hog stick to the Cougar base, none of the buttons work. It's as if it's just not seating all the way. I wonder if it could be that the Nxt shaft is slightly different from a stock Cougar shaft in the connector area?

 

I suppose there must be something different about yours. I wouldn't have thought so about the NXT in general (for the same reasons).

 

I just know I put a few flying hours on both a stock Cougar and my FCC Cougar using the Warthog's handle this summer and never had a glitch.

[Slammin]

Teej, thanks for the info. I think the Nxt is a little different than the stock shaft.

 

For the OP, Kuky pretty much sums it up, and I agree 100%.

[jocko417]

Agree with Slammin 100%. (Ok, 99%, see edit below ;))

 

I love my TM Warthog, it's head and shoulders above the stock Cougar and IMO the best controller available on the market today. The stick grip is a work of art, it's what the Cougar grip should have been. The throttle unit is also great, no "sticktion" at all, smoooth.

 

Despite the huge improvement over the last offering, I still prefer the action of my Uber2 modded Cougar stick base for certain tasks. While it's true that there are no transition "flats" as you go through the X and Y axes with the Warthog stick, there is a definite "divot" right at the center point that is distracting after using an Uber2 mod for so long.

 

Flying a jet sim with the TM Warthog is not really an issue while maneuvering but if flying on instruments or making very minor flight path corrections you do have to get past the "divot" and it's enough to be a bit annoying. Not realistic feel at all when compared to actual 'stick and rudder' aircraft, and it's the only shortcoming I've found with the WH.

 

 

Edit: BTW, my WH stick grip works perfectly with my Uber2 Cougar base, with the exception of the H4 push function (as advertised).

Edited November 21, 2010 by jocko417

[MTFDarkEagle]

Stock Cougar -> Warthog = Good upgrade

Moded Cougar -> Warthog = not worth it at all and in fact Moded Cougar is THE BEST.

Have you had hands-on time with the warthog?

[Kuky]

Have you had hands-on time with the warthog?

 

No, but have you had your hands on moded Cougar? I have and it is exactly what a stick should feel like... and since moded Cougar is perfect already buying another expensive HOTAS is not an upgrade as there is nothing to upgrade from... with exception of few switches that come on the throttle... and downside is you loose the antena elevation and range axis that exists on the F-16 HOTAS.

 

So I hope you see my logic... if you have the perfect stick already you can't upgrade to something better (again, yes you get extra switches but also lose 2 rotary axis) ;)

 

PS: So unless you just want A-10C looking HOTAS no mater what I can't see how spending few hundreds of dollars on this HOTAS be worth if you have moded Cougar already.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Kuky

[MTFDarkEagle]

I have had time with a nxt modded cougar (a mate of mine has one), and I agree the difference isn't great, but the difference is there.

[AussieBob]

Was thinking of buying a WH but after hearing what you guys have just said about the WH "flat spot" or "divot" as some described in the centre X&Y.......It’s put me right off.....I'd be very disappointed if I got one seeing that I have IJ's NXT UBER2 moded Cougar.....Hall sensors in stick and throttle.

Now there’s two things about this new stick I wouldn't be happy with.....

Plastic throttle handles and now flat spot or divot in X and Y.

Makes you wonder what else people will discovered over time

Thanks for the info guys .....you just saved me around $600 Australian

Cheers Bob