Quickly getting TGP on target?

[-Ice]

This question has been thrown around a bit with the group I fly with, I wonder if there is a way to do this...

 

Say you are flying along, 2-ship, trail, about 1.5nm. Wingie has Lead on visual (tiny dot). Suddenly, AAA comes out, Wingie tells Lead to break. Now --- how can Wingie get TGP cursor on the area as fast as possible?

 

What we have at the moment is to China Aft Short to set TGP to boresight, Coolie Hat Up Short to set HUD as SOI, then drag the diamond over the target. At the moment, this procedure doesn't seem to be too quick, is there a better/faster/more efficient way?

[MTFDarkEagle]

Let the lead broadcast SPI via datalink, for the rest to pick up. Then, via TAD as SOI hook the SPI received from lead, and set as SPI for yourself. Next china hat forward long to slew all to SPI. There you go :) TGP on SPI.

[Seanner]

H for helmet mounted sight, slave Shkval to sight, and---damn wrong game.

 

You could try using the TDC by making sure its caged to the flight path marker / velocity vec whatever it's called and flying directly at the AAA briefly to lock the TDC on it. Then make sure you have TDC as SPI then slave all to SPI. The idea is your plane slews faster and more directly than the pod :)

[159th_Viper]

Now --- how can Wingie get TGP cursor on the area as fast as possible?

 

Toggle TGP on and set TGP as SOI.

 

TGP will be bore-sighted as per TGP diamond in HUD. Now just fly the diamond onto target and once on target hit the slew control. All wingie has to do is put nose on target - almost immediate.

 

TGP will ground-stabilize on target - extend, acquire and prosecute.

[-Ice]

Yes, except data sharing doesn't work right now, does it? Also, note that Lead is close to the target and is busy evading AAA, so he may not have time to even look at the target, much less mark it on his TAD/TGP.

 

Seanner, Viper, yeah, that's exactly what we're doing at the moment, slewing pland and pod. So, no other way, eh? It's just that sometimes, we are motoring along and TGP is slaved to Steerpoint and we are looking for targets, so we have to China Aft Short to return TGP to boresight.

Edited March 30, 2011 by -Ice

[nemises]

dont forget the TDC ...

 

set HUD as SOI , slew the TDC onto target (fast slew speed good for visual targets) , set HUD as SPI , slave TGP to SPI.

 

pretty quick...

[-Ice]

What's a TDC again?

[Mugenjin]

The moveable box when you set HUD as SOI

[mia389]

I use Vipers method. I find the HUDs TDC gets confusing because it moves with your flight path where the TGP's TDC will stay center on the hud.

[StrongHarm]

I also prefer the TDC for quick acquisition. Don't forget to China Aft Short to slave the TDC (Target Designation Cue) back to your TVV (Total Velocity Vector). Then you can slew it around on your HUD. Once you get the TDC box in the approx area, TMS fwd long to set it as SPI.

 

Some other ideas for target acquisition:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1106259

Edited March 30, 2011 by StrongHarm
Thanks Insanatrix :)

[Insanatrix]

Just a quick correction SH but it's China hat aft short to reset, long is slave to steerpoint. I also prefer the TDC method if you know where the target is, otherwise I just slew in the general area with the TGP.

[-Ice]

Thanks for the TDC. Won't there be a TDC box in the HUD anyway even if you're using the TGP?

[WarriorX]

The HUD's TDC is a small square box, the TGP's TDC is a small diamond.

 

Depending on which is SOI, pressing your assigned HOTAS Slew controls will either move the square or the diamond in the HUD.

[Cibit]

Tdc for me too. It takes some getting used too but invaluable when the feaces hits the fan

[PlainSight]

Wouldn't be wiser to get away to a safe distance and find the target in relative peace with tgp, than making rush moves in the engagement envelope of aaa?

[CrashEd]

Spotting and marking air threats - how?

 

Whilst flying online over the last week or so, a few of us have been wondering what the best method is for marking air defence threats, particularly whist flying down low in the weeds.

 

Say for instance you are running in low and spot some AAA. What do you do if you want to accurately mark where you spotted the AAA, for your wingy to come in and attack, or for yourself to attack on the next run? What is the quickest way of doing this?

 

Ok, you could get eyes on target and reference it to a ground feature, then add a mark point in the TAD, but this doesn't seem very accurate.

 

The TGP is useless as it is like looking down a drinking straw. It's also very slow.

 

That leaves the HUD. Which is quicker to slew, but has a limited FOV.

 

Would be interested to hear what methods people use for marking air threats.

[sobek]

[...]

 

Get it to fire on you. Always works. ;)

[CrashEd]

Get it to fire on you. Always works. ;)

 

hehe, as Ice will testify, that normally gets me in trouble :D

 

Cheers for amalgamating these threads - Ice beat me to it ;)

Edited March 31, 2011 by CrashEd

[coolts]

Thanks for the TDC. Won't there be a TDC box in the HUD anyway even if you're using the TGP?

 

Yeah, but if its slaved to the TGP it moves way slow, if HUD is SOI its much quicker as it isnt tied to the TGP slew speed.

 

I reckon either vipers "fly the cursor at 'em", or nemesis 'HUD SOI cursor' methods are worth a try next time we fly.

 

If we fly trail with good separation, when lead breaks under fire, 2 or 3 will get a good chance at spotting the AAA as long as we arent heads down, (which we shouldnt be if we are covering lead. yessir sorry sir ;))

Edited March 31, 2011 by coolts

[Seanner]

Say for instance you are running in low and spot some AAA. What do you do if you want to accurately mark where you spotted the AAA, for your wingy to come in and attack, or for yourself to attack on the next run? What is the quickest way of doing this?

 

IMO if you actually spot it randomly at low level off to the side somewhere so you can't just HUD lock it, you apparently are close enough to use the TAD. Dropping marks with TAD is easy:

 

1. TAD as SOI

 

a. Either just mark your current location presuming the TAD cursor is still in its default location on your plane or..

 

b. Zoom in if you aren't at 5 nm and slew a bit towards where the AAA is ... you have to be pretty close if you can see it from low level (say 0.5-2nm and you probably saw it cause it started shooting) so just slew it less than halway to the edge of the TAD and drop a mark. Based on your height and the angle to it you can get a rough estimate too. A 45 degree angle down to it means your altitude = ground distance to AAA...flying at 5k ft means it's a mile out. 30 degrees down and it's twice your altitude in distance. (edit: 1.73xxxx actually)

 

Later when you want to attack:

 

1. use UFC to set mark point mode

2. select the AAA mark

3. make mark the SPI on TAD ... if it was anywhere close to the AAA the TGP will find it easily

Edited March 31, 2011 by Seanner

[coolts]

I havent tried that method. You trade in accuracy for speed and not having to be pointed at the enemy. Relies on good SA though.

[StrongHarm]

I agree with Seanner in that standoff can be valuable. Being hasty gets you killed. To create a mark point close to the relative position of the target using the TAD consider doing the following:

(References are made here to HOTAS commands. See THIS for a quick ref.)

* Make TAD your SOI by hitting the TAD button on the MFCD twice or by Coolie Left Long

* TMS Right Short to create a mark point at your current position (Or hit OSB17 (4th down on left) to create a new waypoint at current position, but I find markpoints more effective in this situation)

.....this way you don't have to guess where you were when you were visually tracking the target

* Switch the Steerpoint knob to Mark on the AAP if it's not already there

* Hook your new mark point by slewing to it then TMS FWD Short

* Change to Hook/Curs with OSB18 (3rd down on left)

.....this will allow you to see the bearing and distance from your markpoint to the cursor, at the bottom right of the TAD

* Goto EXP1 or EXP2 using China FWD Short (EXP2 zooms further than EXP1 and allows you to sometimes see more terrain features)

.....this will orient your map to your cursor instead of your aircraft. It will also fix the map top to north

* Slew your cursor to the relative position of the target from the markpoint.. which was your position when you spotted the target(Remember you can use your wings to measure visual distance to achieve situational awareness .. wingtip is 10nm at 10,000 ft. for instance)

* TMS right short to create a markpoint at your TAD cursor (TAD must be SOI)

* Switch to the new Markpoint and China AFT Long to Slave TGP to steerpoint

* Use your TGP to acquire the target

 

This may seem cumbersome and like too much work, but I assure you after you do it a few times it happens in seconds.

 

Read HERE for more info.

Edited March 31, 2011 by StrongHarm

[-Ice]

Warrior, thanks for the clarification on HUD TDC vs TGP TDC. I always thought the square one was the waypoint :D Either way, turning aircraft to target seems to be the quickest way.

 

PlainSight, note that this does not mean having to engage the AAA, I do agree that safety is always the priority and like I've said so many times, the first thing you do when you spot AAA is to call it out and have whoever it is shooting at do a break turn. However, having spotted it once, I want to know how to at least keep track of the general area where the AAA came from so as to have a reference point from which to search from --- so no longer will we have to say "where's that AAA again? Lead, go back down and bait him for us". Getting a buddy fired at once is enough.

 

I'll have to check out the slew speed in HUD vs TGP though... hmmm....

 

StrongHarm, you put an interesting method there. Will take some learning but should be a bit better especially if you don't have time to point the nose to the target, ie if he's shooting at YOU or IR SAMs are in the area.

[GGTharos]

Eyeball Mk1. Remember the terrain around it, and keep your eyes on it as much as you can.

 

However, having spotted it once, I want to know how to at least keep track of the general area where the AAA came from so as to have a reference point from which to search from --- so no longer will we have to say "where's that AAA again? Lead, go back down and bait him for us". Getting a buddy fired at once is enough.

[-Ice]

Lol GG. That's what we do now. "Hmm... rightmost edge of the town near WP 4." Just looking for a better way, is all.