New Pilot Here! Need some help deciding on which DCS game to buy!

[ComradeLucifer]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm writing to ask your opinion on whether I should purchase AC-10 or Blackshark. I just got a new computer and will be receiving the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X Stick so I'm pretty psyched. I'm only able to afford one game though and I need some opinions on which is the better purchase. I LOVED the apache sim on the 360 and find that I really dig chopper sims in general...but then AC10 looks so awesome- I looked at tyoutube videos and my god man! So I'm really at an impasse here and would appreciate some opinions on which you think the better purchase would be.

 

Thanks guys I really appreciate it, :thumbup:

 

-CL

[MTFDarkEagle]

If you are more into fixedwing aircraft: A-10C

If you are more into helicopter aircraft: Ka-50

 

There ya go :) Advise.

 

And off course: welcome :) :D :beer:

[Mirtma]

A10 would be my selection. I have both and both are great sims. Just A10 is ... A10. But later buy Back Shark also.

[element1108]

Collect them all! ;)

[Insanatrix]

I wasn't much of a helicopter guy but Black Shark blew me away with the fidelity. The same with A-10C. I say get them both they are both very much worth the money.

[shagrat]

No offense but an important question: If you come from the X-Box, you are aware both are heavily complex simulations of the real life stuff? :music_whistling:

 

So I guess this is a yes and you are ready to dive into this experience, welcome and happy flying :thumbup:

 

Now to answer the question. Both sims are heavily relying on the "clickable" cockpit environment, thus you have to (sometimes quickly) flip some switches with the mouse.

During my ventures with the Shark this was often a negative aspect, because I had to put my hands of the HOTAS and on the mouse to flip a switch or a push a button on the keyboard...

A-10C introduces a handy new feature to the DCS Series called "Active pause" which halts your A-10 in middair while the Environment is running, which lets you flip switches while in "Pause", I learned to love this during the lots of training and learning flights!

 

Though the Warthog is a fixed Wing and it is not similar to a heli.

 

The fun in flying a helicopter is you can virtually park it behind some trees, prepare the attack and sneak upon your opponents... so if stealth and pop-up attacks are the kind of stuff that gets your blood boiling, go for the Shark.

If you also like extensive interaction with your Wingmen, the use of a JTAC (Ground attack coordination) talking you on a target etc. and the more immersive environment (Radio-Chatter, more complex Mission design), I would opt for A-10C, honestly A-10C is the best military flightsim I've seen so far.

 

If money is not the essential problem you may go for both :lol:

 

P.S.: The Joystick you mentioned is good for the start, but it will somewhat limit you with a lot of buttons flipped on the keyboard especially for A-10C... perhaps have a look at the forum there is asection on input devices as well. I managed A-10C with a Saitek X-52 and worked, but nothing compared to a TM Warthog.

[Speed]

X-52 is generally considered the minimum "acceptable" HOTAS. It's programmable and you can assign the full A-10C HOTAS to it. I'm unfamiliar with the stick you bought, but you might want to consider Black Shark, it has fewer HOTAS commands to worry about, as it has really simple avionics.

 

Black Shark = simple avionics, hard to fly (at first).

 

A-10C = Simple to fly, complex avionics

 

You might want to take your pick based off of that. Once you get good at flying the Ka-50, it becomes a really fun bird to just fly around in.

[rextar]

Id go for a10 as i have ka50 aswell ,imo a10 has moved on, but aswell ive learnt alot from ka.

Handling of the ka-50 "schooled" me to learn the a10 much faster.

[slowhand]

They both are great Sims.But they are Night and Day,The Shark is more of your low level tree skimming hide behind the building pop-up from behind a hill type of buzz in your shorts kind of Sim,And the A10 well thats a whole new ball game, Its unlike anything you have flown in the past..Cus not all warting is done down low. Its not your daddys old A10 where if you broke agl's 3 you where too high.The sys,wpns and the flight model will let you fly the A10 like never before. I would get the A10 and when the A10/BS patch comes out grab the Shark and have to best of both worlds...lol just my take on it.:pilotfly:

[VMFA117_Poko]

If you are more into fixedwing aircraft: A-10C

If you are more into helicopter aircraft: Ka-50

 

There ya go :) Advise.

So simple :). Whatever one you'll choose after all you end up with both - I'm sure ;).

[Helios]

Flip a coin? ;-)

 

They are both great. I never tried out the Apache game on XBox 360 you were referring to, however I would be very surprised if it comes anywhere near the level of realism in Ka-50. So Ka-50 could be your chance to have an "I loved the Apache and want to bring that to the next level" experience, whereas A-10C would be "this also looks really cool and would be nice to try out something different than the chopper".

 

The difference between hovering/slow-speed in the Ka-50 vs. constantly moving around in the A-10C makes for two quite different experiences.

 

Your HOTAS should be quite an upgrade from the 360 controller experience, so that will be a lot of fun! As was hinted at earlier in the thread you will eventually probably want to think about upgrading to X52 or better to have more programmable buttons/thingies to get a true Hands On Throttle And Stick experience. It sort of works ok in both Ka-50 and A-10C with my X52 after I have tuned my profile quite a bit, but then pretty much every button has a function, including secondary commands by using the pinky switch.

 

I'm sure you'll have loads of fun with either of the two sims, and eventually you will of course want to be flying both :-)

Edited May 13, 2011 by Helios
typo

[Cibit]

For me given your previously stated budget I would opt for A10-C. Once you have begun to master that the compatability patch may well be here. Then buy the Blackshark and enjoy the superior world(visually) of A10 than the current BS world with its blandness (after flying A10 this is my own opinion):thumbup:

[ComradeLucifer]

So I think I'm going to go with ac-10. I feel kinda bad about my joystick now though...I just can't afford the x52. Will the thrustmaster HOTAS i mentioned provide an enjoyable experience? I'm really psyched about getting back into simulation games after so many years and I don't want it hindered by a bad joystick. I did a lot of research and this one seemed the most excellent for my budget and for the fact that I'm "starting out" in flight sims again, so to speak. I am going to enjoy ac-10 with the thrustmaster? Also, I'm on a new laptop; excellent hardware, windows 7 64 bit.

[ComradeLucifer]

well, my thrustmaster just arrived and I have yet to make a decision...I guess my question is do you think with the thrustmaster Blackshark or A10 will be more enjoyable?

[Helios]

So I think I'm going to go with ac-10. I feel kinda bad about my joystick now though...I just can't afford the x52. Will the thrustmaster HOTAS i mentioned provide an enjoyable experience? I'm really psyched about getting back into simulation games after so many years and I don't want it hindered by a bad joystick. I did a lot of research and this one seemed the most excellent for my budget and for the fact that I'm "starting out" in flight sims again, so to speak. I am going to enjoy ac-10 with the thrustmaster? Also, I'm on a new laptop; excellent hardware, windows 7 64 bit.

 

Getting started with a setup that fits your budget sounds way better than delaying the whole thing. If you maxed your budget, then you probably made a great choice. And as you start upgrading gear later the experience will just continue to get better.

 

Not having a top-tier HOTAS does mean some loss of immersion and added pilot workload / reduced efficiency as you will be hitting the keyboard a lot more - instead of just letting your fingers work the programmed buttons while keeping your eyes out the window. But that's probably just fine for quite a while, compared to the alternative of not playing.

[Helios]

well, my thrustmaster just arrived and I have yet to make a decision...I guess my question is do you think with the thrustmaster Blackshark or A10 will be more enjoyable?

 

You'll probably hear as many opinions as there are people in this forum, I'll volunteer mine :-)

 

If you like choppers, and you are willing to learn flying the Ka-50 without throwing heavy items at your laptop when you discover that in the beginning it's hard to do things like hovering and landing, then that's what I would suggest (then again, I like choppers :) ). It took a while before I even started programming the HOTAS for the Ka-50. Plus probably easier on HW requirements, which may be better for running on a laptop. As you may often find yourself hovering or flying slowly with a trimmed heli outside the enemy's engagement zone, you have a lot more time to operate keyboard etc. The one button you really, really need on the stick is the "trim" button - which you will be using all the time - but it's just a button and not a 4-way as on the A-10C.

 

A-10C it's a lot easier to get in the air and fly around. But operating the thing efficiently and getting mission results ... not so easy. As I'm still learning this thing I find it is hard enough even with a fully programmed setup. So the HW may get a little more in the way.

[Axel40]

It's all about the avionics/systems. If that is the thing that floats your boat then A-10c no question.

 

For me, I have both but I like my fixed wing better and I just love working away with the MFD's and dropping bombs, firing Mav's and so on and so on....so much to learn though and I reckon I have maybe took in 20%, if that!

[ComradeLucifer]

Looks like its gonna be AC-10, I really like the systems and avionics stuff, and really want to be able to sink my teeth into a high quality sim. Plus the graphics look better the general consensus on here seems to be leaning toward AC-10. Is there anything important I should know regarding configuring the Thrustmaster once the game is downloaded (gonna get it through steam)?

[ComradeLucifer]

alright...in a few hours I'll be training in an AC10! :)

[Slothface]

alright...in a few hours I'll be training in an AC10! :)

 

YEAH!!! Good choice!!! When you really get involved with this sim you'll wish you forked out a little extra and gone for the TM Warthog HOTAS. I guarantee you'll get that stick in time... and frankly I recommend it as all the controls are exactly the same as an a-10. (Assuming you get into this sim... I'm sure you will! :yes:) Its totally plug and play too so no need to spend hours programming.

 

Welcome to the club Sir! :thumbup:

 

(P.S. Still go and buy Black Shark too when you get some spare cashish! Have fun!)

[MTFDarkEagle]

^The above I agree with 100% :)

[rud]

ComradeLucifer, don't worry about the HOTAS mate. It's you who is flying the plane. It doesn't matter if your stick costs $5 or $500, whether you flail around like a kid just learning to walk or bust tanks like a pro depends on your level of proficiency with what you've got.

 

Game is enjoyable with a keyboard even, it's one hell of a great sim. Frankly, whatever you learn with you'll kick butt with eventually. Just read, read, read then practice, practice, practice! :)

[Slothface]

ComradeLucifer, don't worry about the HOTAS mate. It's you who is flying the plane. It doesn't matter if your stick costs $5 or $500, whether you flail around like a kid just learning to walk or bust tanks like a pro depends on your level of proficiency with what you've got.

 

Game is enjoyable with a keyboard even, it's one hell of a great sim. Frankly, whatever you learn with you'll kick butt with eventually. Just read, read, read then practice, practice, practice! :)

 

 

Agreed! The sim is just a piece of art and you'll love it regardless of what input controllers you have... just my personal opinion on the TM Warthog HOTAS. It just added an added enjoyability factor on top of an already great program. As the above already said... read, practise then read again! Remember... its no fun unless your eyes are bleeding ;)

[cichlidfan]

I have bot the T Flight and the X-52Pro. I bought the 52 for A-10 because of all the switches but I actually like the feel of the stick itself better on the T Flight. I have never tried to use it with A-10 but I am tempted.

 

Now configuring the T Flight for the A-10 will be a bit challenging since it only has the one hat but creative use of modifiers in the sims control setup can still get you where you want to be. I forget who, but someone around here is using a single hat stick with lots of modifiers and seems quite satisfied.

 

One thing I am sure of...once you start flying this thing you will be ready to spend the time and trouble to get whatever stick you use working for you. It is really sweet to fly.

[Speed]

Looks like its gonna be AC-10, I really like the systems and avionics stuff, and really want to be able to sink my teeth into a high quality sim.

Yes, good choice, you will probably like the A-10C better. It's very easy learn how to fly it in comparison to the Ka-50, but the avionics you have to most commonly use are vastly more complex.

 

BTW, what's a AC-10? Is that like some armed version of the KC-10?

 

(BTW, the correct designation is A-10C :doh::D ) The C after the number stands for the "model" of A-10 that it is, model C.

As far as letters BEFORE the dash, A and C would be:

A designation: Attack

C designation: Cargo

 

AC-130: Heavily armed, gunship version of the C-130 cargo plane :thumbup:

 

You got this, right:

http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=149&PlatformID=5

 

I only see one hat on that thing... donno if it has the ability to do a mode shift or not. You're gonna be mashing the keyboard alot. These are the switches on the real A-10C with at least three positions: TMS, DMS, CMS, Coolie, HOTAS Slew, Mic, Boat, Trim, Pinky... in addition, there are several other HOTAS buttons/hats with one or two positions, such as China hat (two way), Master Mode button (one way), pickle (one way), trigger, (two stage)... and I'm still leaving out a few. See starting at page 84 of the manual for a full accounting of the HOTAS commands.

 

Anyway, of the 3 or more position switches, it is most vital to get:

Trim, HOTAS Slew, TMS, Coolie, DMS, CMS, Boat, Mic, Pinky... in about that order. I should note that a profficient and knowledgable pilot flying in full realism is going to have to touch pretty much everything on the A-10C HOTAS during a combat mission. I can't think of a button right off hand that the pilot wouldn't touch, except the gun trigger if he doens't shoot any guns, or the pickle button if he doesn't fire/drop any weapons. If he doesn't make any attack runs or is never targetting by the enemy, the pilot is not likely to touch the CMS. Anyway, in most missions in game, you're going to end up touching everything, except possibly the gun trigger (depends on the mission). IRL, A-10s are doing a lot of combat mission supposedly where they only fire guns. Anyway, they wouldn't have put all those buttons on the real-life HOTAS if they weren't used alot!

 

Without a track IR, you also need to bind a POV hat.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Speed