Black Shark 2 Released

[Dudikoff]

This is not a question of project management. This is a question of software engineering. If you have a degree in that discipline, and work experience in relevant software design disciplines, feel free to comment. :)

 

TBH, the project management needs to OK the software design in the first place ;)

 

But the modularity discussed here is not really a realistic option yet as the main feature list needed by each module would need to be fixed to have a fixed set of interfaces to the main engine. And as the first module was the helicopter, it would be very limiting to make even the Warthog within that set fo features, let alone a fully multirole fighter with multi-mode radars, all sorts of extra communications needed, AI changes, ME changes and all other things I'm not aware of.

[FifthColumnist]

TBH, the project management needs to OK the software design in the first place ;)

 

But the modularity discussed here is not really a realistic option yet as the main feature list needed by each module would need to be fixed to have a fixed set of interfaces to the main engine. And as the first module was the helicopter, it would be very limiting to make even the Warthog within that set fo features, let alone a fully multirole fighter with multi-mode radars, all sorts of extra communications needed, AI changes, ME changes and all other things I'm not aware of.

 

Hmm, not really, no reason why the engine features cant be expanded or adjusted with each vehicle release, IMO it would make much more sense for all vehicles to run in the same engine version with engine upgrades coming free to existing users, this model is used by lots of other games and applications out there.

IMO this sim is very inexpensive really I think a much higher purchase price for each combat platform would be justified, 100 USD doesn't seem unreasonable .... but charging us for a patch, no matter how wonderful it is and no matter how cheap it is, seems abit much really.

I look at the bug reports trickling in regarding BS2 and I wonder will I have to pay again to have them fixed?

 

S!

[159th_Viper]

....I think a much higher purchase price for each combat platform would be justified, 100 USD doesn't seem unreasonable....

 

That would indeed work if, and it's unfortunately a helluva gargantuan if, all the people who supported ED/TFC purchased the product directly from the ED website - fullstop: 100% sales from this here website every time all the time.

 

Now you can understand that that will never reasonably happen and can also not be reasonable expected to happen. I am guessing here, but I would think that a comparatively large market for the product is via third-party retailers/online distributors. As such you are not going to get away with attempting to charge the justifiable market value for a Flight Simulation of the calibre of DCS which is in today's market without peer, even if the end-consumer is willing to pay.

[Dudikoff]

Hmm, not really, no reason why the engine features cant be expanded or adjusted with each vehicle release, IMO it would make much more sense for all vehicles to run in the same engine version with engine upgrades coming free to existing users, this model is used by lots of other games and applications out there.

 

The reason is that with each feature expansion of the common feature list, you have to reintroduce all those features to the older modules and that's not always a trivial feat (e.g. BS2 example at hand, recording sounds for the new comms).

[Krippz]

Can we stop the whining about the $20.00 and get back on message? If you look at the changes introduced between DCS Black Shark version 1.0 and DCS Black Shark 2 the price is more than justified. Sure ED could have done a better job with making this known prior to release but after viewing this thread for the past few days I don't blame them.

[kylania]

Fixed installer is apparently up for those still having problems.

[EvilBivol-1]

For those who missed it, a comprehensive list of new and improved features in Black Shark 2 has been posted below the official announcement.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1321328&postcount=2

 

Black Shark 2 List of New and Improved Features

 

List of changes between Black Shark 2 and A-10C v.1.1.0.9:

 

• Player controlled Ka-50

• Ka-50 cockpit in improved and more efficient EDM format

• Dynamic cockpit shadows

• Adjusted rotor effects for the Ka-50 flight model

• Network compatibility with DCS: A-10C Warthog

• Improved helicopter target engagement AI:

o When analyzing a tactical situation, the HAI will take in account all threats, not only the target that the HAI is engaging.

o If it's possible to engage targets from a safe distance, the HAI will not fly close to threats.

o If it appears that the HAI is not at a safe position, for example too close to enemy air defenses, the HAI will fly away from the threat(s) and then start engaging targets from safe a distance.

o If it appears impossible to engage targets from safe distance, the HAI will make only one short attack (one missile launch / rocket salvo or cannon burst per run) from maximum range of that weapon and then break away to make a new attack if required. This reduces fire effectiveness, but greatly increases HAI survival when engaging targets with cannon or rockets.

o HAI will not hover in an unsafe location.

o If high-priority targets are screened by low-priority targets that make it impossible to attack high-priority targets from safe distance, the HAI will attack low-priority targets first to break the screen. In other words, if you have line of enemy APCs and tanks at 4 km and enemy AAA and SAMs at 12 km, the HAI will engage those APCs and tanks first. No more flying over the enemies' heads.

o Jinking defensive maneuvering has been added. When flying in the WEZ of AAA, tanks, and APCs, the HAI will fly at high speed and jink. Of course, HAI will not jink when aiming at a target.

• New, 15-mission Ka-50 campaign "Medved-2"

• Updated and improved Georgian Oil War campaign

• New voiceovers for Russian radio entities

• Added Abkhazia and South Ossetia factions to the ME

• Added Abkhazia and South Ossetia borders to the ME map

• Added a number of unit skins for Abkhazia and South Ossetia

• Animated cirrus cloud layer

• Higher resolution textures for a number of ground objects

• Improved smoke effects

• Improved FARP texture

• Updated documentation

 

List of changes between Black Shark 2 and Black Shark v.1.0.2:

 

Improved graphics:

 

• High Dynamic Range (HDR)

• Cockpit dynamic shadows

• Soft self-shadows

• Tree shadows

• Normal maps

• Animated cirrus cloud layer

• 3D and transparent water

• Low altitude clutter

• Improved airbases

• Improved FARP texture

 

Improved sound

 

• Implemented surround sound support.

• Many new and revised sound samples provide a more rich and accurate audio environment.

 

Improved gameplay

 

• Network compatibility with DCS: A-10C Warthog.

• Ability to take-off from ships (ships pitch and roll depending on wind strength (sea state)).

• AI radio traffic can be heard when tuned to the correct radio frequency.

• Mission Briefing and Debriefing available in-flight.

Expanded theater of operations

• The map now covers terrain further east to include the region of South Ossetia, center of the 2008 conflict between Russia and Georgia, as well as additional Russian and Georgian territory. The newly covered area provides a variety of terrain types, 5 new airbases, highly detailed cities, and a number of radio navigation beacons.

Mission Editor improvements

• Group properties interface that allows for in-depth AI scripting of a variety of behavior options, such as waypoint or trigger-based task execution, rules of engagement settings, readiness states, attack conditions, orbiting and holding points, etc.

• Ability to lock either arrival times or travel speeds for AI routes.

• Ability to copy and paste groups

• New ground group formation options

• Improved trigger menu interface includes cloning, trigger re-ordering, and OR rules.

• 32 new trigger conditions and 19 new triggers actions.

• Ability to set AI aircraft to spawn at mission start, but delay start-up.

• Added Abkhazia and South Ossetia factions with corresponding units, skins, and map borders.

• New active ground units:

o 9B11 Mortar

o Variety of armed stationary objects (house, barracks, blockpost, tower)

 

Mission Generator

 

• The mission generator utilizes a wide collection of force templates placed throughout the map to generate a randomized mission based on the player's desired mission location and options. Force templates can be edited and created within the Mission Editor.

 

Improved AI

 

• Helicopter AI (HAI)

 

o When analyzing a tactical situation, the HAI will take in account all threats, not only the target that the HAI is engaging.

o If it's possible to engage targets from a safe distance, the HAI will not fly close to threats.

o If it appears that the HAI is not at a safe position, for example too close to enemy air defenses, the HAI will fly away from the threat(s) and then start engaging targets from safe a distance.

o If it appears impossible to engage targets from safe distance, the HAI will make only one short attack (one missile launch / rocket salvo or cannon burst per run) from maximum range of that weapon and then break away to make a new attack if required. This reduces fire effectiveness, but greatly increases HAI survival when engaging targets with cannon or rockets.

o HAI will not hover in an unsafe location.

o If high-priority targets are screened by low-priority targets that make it impossible to attack high-priority targets from safe distance, the HAI will attack low-priority targets first to break the screen. In other words, if you have line of enemy APCs and tanks at 4 km and enemy AAA and SAMs at 12 km, the HAI will engage those APCs and tanks first. No more flying over the enemies' heads.

o Jinking defensive maneuvering has been added. When flying in the WEZ of AAA, tanks, and APCs, the HAI will fly at high speed and jink. Of course, HAI will not jink when aiming at a target.

 

• Plane AI (PAI)

 

o AI-fighters will now always try to launch AA missile when the target has entered into its no-escape zone. However, AI-fighters will fire missile immediately if it appears the fighter is losing first-launch superiority.

 

• Ground Unit AI

 

o Ground units are able to cross streams.

o Ground units will by-pass destroyed bridges and seek alternate routes.

o Ground groups will disperse when attacked.

o Some ground groups will pop smoke when attacked.

o NVG capability was removed from MANPAD SAMs.

 

Dynamic weather

 

• Dynamic weather conditions can be set for the mission based on a number of weather fronts and pressure differentials. Winds and cloud formations are calculated dynamically during the mission based on the fronts settings. This makes it possible, for example, to see precipitation in one part of the map and relatively clear skies in another.

 

New or improved 3D models:

 

• Air units

 

o A-10A

o A-10C

o An-26

o An-30

o C-130

o E-2

o E-3

o F-15C

o F-15E

o KC-135

o L-39

o Mi-8

o Mi-26

 

• Ground units

 

o 9S80 radar vehicle

o HEMTT TFFT fire-fighting truck

o LVTP-7

o Patriot SAM site units

o SA-11 SAM site units

o SA-3 SAM site units

o Russian infantryman

 

• Naval units

 

o Pr. 1241.1 Molniya

o Ticonderoga-class cruiser

o Oliver H. Perry-class frigate

 

• Other

 

o Fuel tank depot

 

Active Pause

 

• The active pause feature allows you to pause the simulation, while continuing to work with cockpit controls.

 

Campaigns

 

• A new 15-mission campaign features a variety of missions with some randomization elements and voice-over messages. The campaign takes places in the South Ossetia region and is very loosely based on the 2008 conflict between Russia and Georgia.

• Updated and improved Georgian Oil War campaign.

 

GUI

 

• Added sliders to control tree and ground clutter draw distances.

• Added software Multisample Anti-aliasing (MSAA) settings.

• Added an exporting function to the Input Options menu to export all mapped command to a text file.

• Added Misc. tab with various game options, including view restriction options for multiplayer.

Edited November 7, 2011 by EvilBivol-1

[Dudikoff]

Can we stop the whining about the $20.00 and get back on message?

 

Can I just point out that what you perceive as "whining", some others might call "stating their opinion" and may perceive your calls as whining, too. This is what the moderators should be here for. Perhaps they are recruiting?

 

I'm just curious about what would you say would be "on message" here anyway? This thread seems to be discussing the circumstances of the BS2 release. There are plenty of other threads dealing with BS2 particularities.

 

If you look at the changes introduced between DCS Black Shark version 1.0 and DCS Black Shark 2 the price is more than justified.

 

I'm not disagreeing here with you (or necessarily agreeing, for that matter), but this is your opinion/impression/experience which doesn't have to be shared by everyone else. Sorry, wasn't my intention to moderate you, just trying to point out that IMHO posts worded like this where you're stating your opinions as facts can be found provocative (e.g. I got sucked into it; yes, I have no life).

Edited November 7, 2011 by Dudikoff

[EvilBivol-1]

A new Black Shark 2 Upgrade installer is now available on the website and should correctly recognize all previous versions of the Black Shark, including Steam.

[shallowjoshua]

A new Black Shark 2 Upgrade installer is now available on the website and should correctly recognize all previous versions of the Black Shark, including Steam.

Awesome

[Woots]

A new Black Shark 2 Upgrade installer is now available on the website and should correctly recognize all previous versions of the Black Shark, including Steam.

 

Why didn't they just fix the small .EXE file? I have to re-download the three .bin files also. Really? Come on.

[Mohamengina]

A new Black Shark 2 Upgrade installer is now available on the website and should correctly recognize all previous versions of the Black Shark, including Steam.

 

Should, or does?

[Nate--IRL--]

Should, or does?

 

Does

 

Nate

[Mohamengina]

Does

 

Nate

 

Excellent. Thank you.

[Krippz]

Can I just point out that what you perceive as "whining", some others might call "stating their opinion" and may perceive your calls as whining, too. This is what the moderators should be here for. Perhaps they are recruiting?.

 

 

I don't see the argument. If you are in favor of others stating their opinion why the need to opine on mine? I'm not trying to moderate anyone (i.e. I was not enforcing a forum rule but stating my opinion). Most of this thread in my opinion has been QQ-ing and discussing the idiosyncrasies of this title's release. This makes it difficult to find worthwhile information when you have to sift through page's of rubbish.

[159th_Viper]

Can I just point out that what you perceive as "whining", some others might call "stating their opinion" and may perceive your calls as whining, too. This is what the moderators should be here for. Perhaps they are recruiting?

 

There exists a point where stating one's opinion in a manner acceptable to the rules that govern the conduct of these boards does actually cease from being an opinion and metamorphosizes into a whine.

 

As can be correctly argued, one's opinion was correctly understood after the first utterance and accordingly there would be no need to belabour the point any further. In this instance and concerning this thread, reasonableness would dictate that stating one's opinion in the same thread on occasions amounting to more than, oh let's say three times (or more, or even less depending on the context of the relevant post/s), could and does indeed constitute 'whining'.

 

To address your specific enquiry, no, we are not recruiting.

Edited November 7, 2011 by 159th_Viper
Clarification

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I move to close this thread can I get a second? I think its all been said. Agreed?

[kylania]

I move to close this thread can I get a second? I think its all been said. Agreed?

 

You can't just close a thread without letting everyone know! ED promised this thread would remain open and now they just want to close it? I guess we'll have to pay $2 for each thread we want closed from now on!? I guess the whole idea of forums is done for now, I'm going back to a BBS. This thread is basically the same as the original Black Shark released thread, nothing new other than Viper's avatar anyway.

[159th_Viper]

.....and now they just want to close it?

 

And that's how unfounded rumours are born.......... ;)

 

Who said ED wants to close the thread?

 

:)

[Dudikoff]

Most of this thread in my opinion has been QQ-ing and discussing the idiosyncrasies of this title's release. This makes it difficult to find worthwhile information when you have to sift through page's of rubbish.

 

My point exactly. So why would you want to start putting useful information in such a big and incomprehensible thread now when there are plenty others? :)

 

There exists a point where stating one's opinion in a manner acceptable to the rules that govern the conduct of these boards does actually cease from being an opinion and metamorphosizes into a whine.

To address your specific enquiry, no, we are not recruiting.

 

I agree it can get repetitive from both sides, maybe because the thread is too scary size-wise to be sifted through before posting; wouldn't be a very useful way to spend time, though. But, it seems it may be too late to change the purpose of the thread and it's more convenient to have people post their thoughts on the matter (or "whine") here than to have those complaints showing up in other threads, no?

 

The recruiting thing was a joke attempt as if the poster I was quoting was trying to moderate. Not even a smirk? I guess I'm no comedian..

[159th_Viper]

I agree it can get repetitive from both sides, maybe because the thread is too scary size-wise to be sifted through before posting; wouldn't be a very useful way to spend time, though. But, it seems it may be too late to change the purpose of the thread and it's more convenient to have people post their thoughts on the matter (or "whine") here than to have those complaints showing up in other threads, no?

 

Oh I don't know........I would have thought that if a person was going to address a thread then the very least one should do is acquaint oneself with the content of the thread concerned to see if the very issue you are attempting to address has not yet been addressed already, thus at the very least avoiding duplication.

 

I'll say it again - opinions are always welcome and indeed sought and will never be construed as a 'whine' at first glance, provided that said opinions are expressed as reasonably requested. It's when individuals express their opinion repeatedly on countless occasions in the same thread/context that it could very well, depending on the circumstances, be construed as a 'whine' - that would be unacceptable.

[JS]

A new Black Shark 2 Upgrade installer is now available on the website and should correctly recognize all previous versions of the Black Shark, including Steam.

 

I couldn't find any indication on the website that the available installer is a new version. Am I missing something, or does this information not exist there?

 

It would be very useful if version numbers and the dates when they were added were included on the website, so that you can see when a new version of something is available. This is especially true for all the manuals, the only way (that I know of) to make sure you have the latest version is to actually open the PDF:s and look at the dates given under "File - Properties". It would be really great if a version number, or at least a date, were added to the file names.

[MTFDarkEagle]

JS: It has been updated.

[JS]

JS: It has been updated.

 

I know that, since I happen to be following this thread. Otherwise, I would have had no idea. And like I said, this is not just about the installer for BS2, but for all the manuals and other files on the website too.

[kylania]

I know that, since I happen to be following this thread. Otherwise, I would have had no idea. And like I said, this is not just about the installer for BS2, but for all the manuals and other files on the website too.

 

You know because ED just told you. :smilewink: It's all the same except for the installer part I think, some people were having success renaming the old bin files to the new names and installing after just downloading the new exe. But it's basically just "the installer" there's no "old" or "new" there's just "this is BS2". The old version doesn't exist anymore. heh