How good can one hide? Can AI see&lase through buildings?

[Weltensegler]

I did some tests and...doesn't make completely sense to me but see yourself.

Maybe there is a good explanation for it...better than my one at the end :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwAdvDiPYEM

 

Respect to the AI for the nice GBU12 drop by the way...just scratched the building with the fins.

guess THAT is what auto-lasing is for?

...leading and then pulling in towards target so you can drop around a corner? impressive!

Edited July 12, 2012 by Weltensegler

[Revelation]

Why didn't you simply launch on the GBU? I have successfully taken out inbound Mavericks in a tungusta.

[Yskonyn]

Interesting test.

 

Were there no other enemy units with line of sight to you in the second scenario?

Did you fire beforehand?

[jib]

was it a pre placed building or one you put in with the mission editor?, there could be a difference ???

[HiJack]

Once fiering a missile your location is revealed to the enemy. Maby you have heard the AI calling missile launches? For the record it works that way IRL also.

 

Now the test would be one tank hiding and a A-10 passing overhead loaded with GBU's, MAV's and pod.

 

Now add a Apache doing radar sweep as a AFAC (JTAC) and make it go in circles overhead. What happens?

 

(HJ)

[Weltensegler]

Why didn't you simply launch on the GBU? I have successfully taken out inbound Mavericks in a tungusta.

Didn't know the missile would notice the Bomb to be honest :)

 

 

was it a pre placed building or one you put in with the mission editor?, there could be a difference ???

It was a fix city building, nothing placed.

 

 

Were there no other enemy units with line of sight to you in the second scenario?

Did you fire beforehand?

No enemies in line of sight!

The second try where the bomb hits me was started 30 sec before I started recording.

I didn't move and didn't fire!

 

 

Once fiering a missile your location is revealed to the enemy. Maby you have heard the AI calling missile launches? For the record it works that way IRL also.

 

Now the test would be one tank hiding and a A-10 passing overhead loaded with GBU's, MAV's and pod.

 

Now add a Apache doing radar sweep as a AFAC (JTAC) and make it go in circles overhead. What happens?

Obviously but this test was a quick mission editor test and there were no Apaches or anything else nor did I fire before I got hit on the second try!

That's why I implied what you suggested in the video :)

I doubt that when I restart a mission the AI remembers where I was in the last mission, hehe

 

 

But keep it coming! I wanna understand it too! :)

[Revelation]

Didn't know the missile would notice the Bomb to be honest :)

 

With the Tungusta you can hit enter and you can select missiles in flight, I haven't tried bombs yet, but I don't see why you couldn't.

 

With the Tungusta I shot down inbound Mavericks during a familiarization mission.

[secret1962]

­

Edited March 12, 2018 by secret1962

[Weltensegler]

You had the radar on I think.

 

Well since I didn't know how to switch radar on and off (is it possible at all yet?) I remained in gun mode without lock as you see hoping that this keeps it off in case I can influence it at all.

 

But either way:

Seeing a spike on the RWR shouldn't localize me precize enough for a laser attack with no line of sight, right?

And further it would mean that my radar is not masked by the building which is likely that this is not modeled yet though I really think that's important and hope ED will do something about it until release. Though actually it would mostly be sufficient to just switch it off and on I guess.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Weltensegler

[71st_Mastiff]

no they can see through buildings and trees I was driving a M1 and T80U were launching those dam 6 mile Sagar missiles at me through the dam trees.:joystick:

[Weltensegler]

Well that's sad..and one reason more now why I rather fly online.

Guess when Nevada comes it doesn't matter really anymore :D

Edited July 13, 2012 by Weltensegler

[EtherealN]

Trees is old news. Buildings not so.

 

Do you have the relevant miz file(s)?

[Weltensegler]

not the exact but since I could recreate that x times I can do one again.

Maybe I find the track even. I'll check

[Sierra99]

Why didn't you simply launch on the GBU? I have successfully taken out inbound Mavericks in a tungusta.

 

Uhummmmm... We're you in a server running "Sandbox" on Saturday? I killed a Tunguska with a Maverick who after I evaded his volley, he started blazing away at the Mav... Didn't work that time :smilewink:

 

Gadgets

[26-J39]

Tested this issue multiple times and can confirm that the AI can see through buildings ( trees not so concerned with atm).

 

Very simple test in ME but I can provide a trk if necessary.

 

Edit: To clarify my tests were AI CAS aircraft vs ground vehicles.

Edited July 16, 2012 by 26-J39

[MadTommy]

Tested this issue multiple times and can confirm that the AI can see through buildings ( trees not so concerned with atm).

 

Very simple test in ME but I can provide a trk if necessary.

 

:(

[Yskonyn]

Still, even if the trees are old news, for CA they pose a problem.

I sure hope there are plans to get solid trees in for the future. Buildings should already block LOS, AFAIK.

[Weltensegler]

Tested this issue multiple times and can confirm that the AI can see through buildings ( trees not so concerned with atm).

 

Very simple test in ME but I can provide a trk if necessary.

 

Thanks for confirming my test results! :)

 

I am sure ED is aware of it anyways but still good to know for those single players out there that they don't have to try, hehe.

 

As long as AI enemy vehicles dont give up positions of friendly ones in MP :(

[Evil.Bonsai]

Tested this issue multiple times and can confirm that the AI can see through buildings ( trees not so concerned with atm).

 

Very simple test in ME but I can provide a trk if necessary.

 

You guys need to provide traks. I just tested it myself: put an M1A2 on one side of a building, and a T80 on the other, facing each other. They might as well have been on different sides of the map, completely ignoring each other. I did three tests: Large building, small building, no building. The did not see through the buildings in the first 2 tests. Both reacted within seconds in the last test w/no buildings.

Building test 1.trk

Building test 2.trk

Building test 3.trk

[Pikey]

This issue isn't quite as simple.

 

I've played peek-a-boo round a hangar and watched enemy reaction. As you pop out their turrets all swing towards you. When you go back the turrets return to front position. Now whether they know i'm there and can't do anything about it, I'ts hard to prove. They didnt try to shoot through the hangar though.

 

I have been hit behind a house and I've had a house destroyed in front of me and then been killed when cover was removed. But if you pop out, a ground to ground missile can be launched, so presumably tries to track you through the house if you move back?

 

So...laser tracking seems persistent though houses, because i tend to get houses destroyed regularly around me.

 

IRL how do these G2G missiles work if it lost it's target? or does it just ride a beam?

[Nate--IRL--]

They are Beam Riders IIRC.

 

Nate

[PhoenixBvo]

Reading this it seems to me that LOS blockage by buildings might depend on the sensor...

Ground vehicles seem to respect it mostly, but CAS aircraft seem to ignore it.

Perhaps valuable debugging information might be generated by using the lua export feature. I found the following function in the lua-exporting description:

 

-- Weapon Control System	
LoGetTargetInformation() -- (args - 0, results - 1 (table of current targets tables)) 
LoGetLockedTargetInformation() -- (args - 0, results - 1 (table of current locked targets tables)) 
this functions return the table of the next target data	
target =	
{	
ID , -- world ID (may be 0 ,when ground point track)	
type = {level1,level2,level3,level4}, -- world database classification	
country = , -- object country	
position = {x = {x,y,z}, -- orientation X ort 
y = {x,y,z}, -- orientation Y ort	
z = {x,y,z}, -- orientation Z ort
p = {x,y,z}} -- position of the center 
velocity = {x,y,z}, -- world velocity vector m/s	
distance = , -- distance in meters	
convergence_velocity = , -- closing speed in m/s	
mach = , -- M number	
delta_psi = , -- aspect angle rad	
fim = , -- viewing angle horizontal (in your body axis) rad	
fin = , -- viewing angle vertical (in your body axis) rad	
flags = ,	 -- field with constants detemining method of the tracking 
--	whTargetRadarView	
--	whTargetEOSView	
--	whTargetRadarLock	
--	whTargetEOSLock	
--	whTargetRadarTrack	
--	whTargetEOSTrack	
--	whTargetNetHumanPlane	= 0x0200;
--	whTargetAutoDCS = 0x0400;
--	whTargetDCSJammer = 0x0800;
reflection = , -- target cross section square meters
course = , -- target course rad
isjamming = , -- target ECM on or not
start_of_lock = , -- time of the beginning of lock
forces = { x,y,z}, -- vector of the acceleration units 
updates_number = , -- number of the radar updates
}

 

Does anyone know if this is up-to-date and how to query a specific vehicle with this function?