Esac_mirmidon Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) I was testing BS2 and the Shark in DCSW, here are my conclusions: Configuration: 1º test : 100% internal fuel. No external load. 2º test: 10% internal fuel. No external load. 3º test: 100% internal fuel + 4 FAB-500. Results: BS2. Hovering 1º: 6.8º blade angle 2º: 4.7º blade angle 3º: 9º blade angle. Results: DCSW Hovering 1º: 9.3º blade angle 2º: 7.2º blade angle 3º: 11º blade angle. So, the amount of colective needed for the same maneuver are different. DCSW needs more colective for the same configuration, 2º-3º more blade angle. I don´t know if this is intentional, more accurated, a bug or a differten thing. I only can say that BS2 and DCSW Ka-50 colective are different. Edited July 17, 2012 by Esac_mirmidon 2 " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
Joe Johnson Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I too have the feeling (but no evidence) that the flight model changed. Because: In previous versions what I did to stop the chopper from fast flight was I dropped the throttle to zero and pitched the nose in the sky. So I could stop very fast without gaining too much altitude. In this position I had to stay for some seconds (maybe 5-10?). But now the Shark tends to fall to the ground VERY fast. It's indeed like now you need more power. As I said: just my feeling (must be a big placebo-pill that I swallowed). ;) Intel Core i5 750 @ 4 GHz, 8GB Ram, ATI Radeon 5800, Saitek X52 HOTAS & Pedals, TIR 5, Wondows 7 64bit
Dejjvid Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I've logged filthy amounts of hours in the Ka-50. And I can definitely tell the difference between 1cm extra collective needed on my throttle. But I haven't checked the pitch angles, I thought ED made something with the curvature of the collective. I've logged more then 20hours in 1.2.0 and now I'm used to the 'new' collective. Would be nice if Nate did the same tests as the previous poster to confirm. And perhaps be a little more careful to throw those placebo pills around.. ;) 1 i7 8700K | GTX 1080 Ti | 32GB RAM | 500GB M.2 SSD | TIR5 w/ Trackclip Pro | TM Hotas Warthog | Saitek Pro Flight Rudder [sigpic]http://www.132virtualwing.org[/sigpic]
Griffin Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Sorry but it feels silly when something changes and EVERYONE complains, the mod's immediately smash that and say "it's a placebo effect", "you others must be seeing illusions" and "everything is working as intended" etc. I respect you and appreciate your work but please don't smash the people who report it since they might not have time or energy to thoroughly test it and it might go unnoticed. Rather be constructive, encourage others to test or contact testers etc. :) 3
pyromaniac4002 Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 What about the simple fact that I can take my collective to 15 degrees of pitch in a hover and not choke out my engines like they would have done at ~12 or 13 degrees? Something's definitely different. 1
TurboHog Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Something has changed. Thanks mirmidon for confirming. I hope the testers do the same comparison tests. And of course, if this is how the KA50 should behave (after 3 years of DCS Black Shark), we will have peace ;). Looks like the placebo pills were accidentally real ones after all... 'Frett'
Mikoyan89 Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) I was testing BS2 and the Shark in DCSW, here are my conclusions: Configuration: 1º test : 100% internal fuel. No external load. 2º test: 10% internal fuel. No external load. 3º test: 100% internal fuel + 4 FAB-500. Results: BS2. Hovering 1º: 6.8º blade angle 2º: 4.7º blade angle 3º: 9º blade angle. Results: DCSW Hovering 1º: 9.3º blade angle 2º: 7.2º blade angle 3º: 11º blade angle. So, the amount of colective needed for the same maneuver are differente. DCSW needs more colective for the same configuration, 2º-3º more blade angle. I don´t know if this is intentional, more accurated, a bug or a differten thing. I´m only can say that BS2 and DCSW Ka-50 colective are different. Right.I did some test and i came to similar conclusion... What about the simple fact that I can take my collective to 15 degrees of pitch in a hover and not choke out my engines like they would have done at ~12 or 13 degrees? Something's definitely different. for example in 1.1.1.1 version i couldn't pull the collective over 13° of pitch without losing rotor rpm,now in 1.2.0 i can throughout the whole range of speed.(at sea level) Edited July 17, 2012 by Mikoyan89 YouTube Blog
AlphaOneSix Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I would love to post some numbers but I don't have any older copies of BS at the moment, and I'm in A-stan right now and won't be home for a couple more weeks. I do have a spreadsheet where I used an LUA script to track some numbers related to autorotations, so I have some basic info, but nothing good enough to post and say it's definitive. I can tell you this for sure, however. At sea level, ISA, in an unloaded Ka-50, with low fuel (don't remember how low exactly), I could (previous version) establish an OGE hover at 4.2 degrees of blade pitch. You can't do that now, I guarantee it. There has been no mention or discussion of any change whatsoever, so I don't know what changed. I will add that the new "feel" is more realistic, but that's based on my Mi-17 experience.
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 17, 2012 ED Team Posted July 17, 2012 The initial pitch was changed after we had some info about real numbers. In one of previous version (I think it was BS2 :)) the rotor was heavier than necessary. Now it closer to BS1 and the numbers for hovering with certain weight are as in RL. I am not sure but there was another significant change in FM and the helicopter became more "sharp" regarding the reaction to the stick. THis change was a result of bug fixing in horisontal hinges placement in the model. And it's all the changes we have made. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me
Griffin Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Oh right, it's in the changelog. :D Still great to hear that you are still improving the flight model of our old Shark!
Cali Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Guess it wasn't a placebo pill afterall, thanks Yo-Yo. 2 i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
Esac_mirmidon Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Thanks Yo-Yo, for answer to this questions, now we are aware of this change and is very welcomed if this bring us more FM fidelity. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
Dejjvid Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Thank you Yo-Yo! Nate you owe us cookies!! :) i7 8700K | GTX 1080 Ti | 32GB RAM | 500GB M.2 SSD | TIR5 w/ Trackclip Pro | TM Hotas Warthog | Saitek Pro Flight Rudder [sigpic]http://www.132virtualwing.org[/sigpic]
ALDEGA Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 If only this information had been included in the changelog ...
Griffin Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 If only this information had been included in the changelog ... Ka-50 Fixes • Initial collective pitch is corrected. • Several missing text message from wingmen. • Wingmen take-off rejection in some cases. • Buttons and switches could become non-clickable in some cockpit view locations. • Both engine over-speed failure lights on at mission start. • Some dials are not affected by lighting conditions. • Certain wing payloads no longer stay with helicopter after the wing is destroyed. • Most radio options are greyed-out with easy comms. I think most of us missed that. :)
pyromaniac4002 Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Thanks Yo-Yo! Gotta admit, I may not have actually, read, the change... log... But I'm glad I'm not just crazy for thinking my throttle grew an inch and a half of usable space.
Mikoyan89 Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 thanks for the clarification,YoYo....i guess now it's more real,since collective pitch during some manoeuvers now seems closer to what i see in this video YouTube Blog
ALDEGA Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I think most of us missed that. :)Odd ... it was mentioned in the change log of the beta patch (which I couldn't play due to BS2 upgrade version ...) but not the non-beta release's change log ... Anyway, I like Yo-Yo's detailed explanation.
lvl4f Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Sorry but it feels silly when something changes and EVERYONE complains, the mod's immediately smash that and say "it's a placebo effect", "you others must be seeing illusions" and "everything is working as intended" etc. I respect you and appreciate your work but please don't smash the people who report it since they might not have time or energy to thoroughly test it and it might go unnoticed. Rather be constructive, encourage others to test or contact testers etc. :thumbup: (+1)
Jinja Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Ahh, good old 'versions' of reality! I didnt see ANYONE complain.. Merely collective agreement that something was different... i7@3.5Ghz, ATI 5870, 16GB RAM, win7 64bit, TH2GO, Track-IR, 4screen pit, TM WArthog HOTAS
jacobs Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Well, I've been away from BS2 since february but now I resumed flying with 1.2.0 version. I don't know what you guy did but it feels much more "in my hands" then before. The response is much sharper and now I finaly feel I'm in control of this beast. Thanks ED! :-D
Zolitnitsky Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Now it closer to BS1 and the numbers for hovering with certain weight are as in RL. Yes! Go number one! Z
Wolfie Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Yes we've been working very hard on the Placebo effect - glad you like it, it took ages to get right. Nate LMAO "Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards "I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.
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