Next DCS (Russian) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List

[BlackLion213]

I think there has been serious thought about developing aircraft with playable adversaries, but it's in the context of the upcoming maps - not the classic US vs Soviet/Russian hardware that most of us think about.

 

For example, the released or upcoming DCS modules for NTTR map:

 

Blue Forces:

F/A-18C

F-14A/B

A-10C

F-15C (? hoping!)

Mirage 2000

Typhoon

 

Red Forces:

F/A-18C

F-15C (?)

F-5E

F-14A?? (I don't think they were used for adversary work outside of NSAWC)

(The only adversary jet missing is the F-16C)

 

Pretty balanced, especially since 75% of actual adversary jets are more or less covered.

 

Strait of Hormuz - which is really NATO/US/UAE vs Iran. The map doesn't cover an area that supports much Iraq vs Iran (excluding the Tanker Wars).

 

Blue:

F/A-18C

F-14A/B

F-15C(?) - both USAF and RSAF

UAE Mirage 2000s (subvariant?)

A-10C

Typhoon

 

Red:

IRIAF F-14A

IRIAF F-5E

IrAF Mirage F.1(? hinted but not formally announced)

 

Plus IRIAF vs IrAF: IRIAF F-14A vs Mirage F.1 - classic duel from the War.

 

I think that more Soviet/Russian hardware will be announced as the currently announced modules are released. LNS said quite frankly that a MiG-23 is very likely from them in the future, but not next.

 

The match-ups that are coming make good sense given the theaters being developed by ED. These things usually improve as more modules are released anyway.

 

-Nick

[Capn kamikaze]

The worst thing that can be done is focusing on just one side or giving one side a whole bunch of modern stuff and the other side a bunch of antiques. This is currently the problem in DCS.

 

Exactly, and the mismatch in time frames of aircraft is blatently in favour of trying to bring the Russian stuff upto a balance point with the western stuff.

 

Once again, that's where mission builders come in. The mission builder can create an historic mission, realistic mission or a balanced mission.

 

That is the problem, it's not possible to do that at the moment because there is a mismatch in what versions of aircraft exist in DCS, what you need to do a historic mission is for example an F-15C from 1985 vs an Su-27 from 1985 etc etc, but that is simply not possible since the planes from from the same era are in some cases a decade out from each other.

 

The F-15C in DCS is from the 1990's. How do I know? It has AIM-120's (entered service 1991).

 

Not so fast, the upgrade that allowed the F-15C to use that missile was introduced during the MSIP programme, which was mid 80's, the fact the missile entered service (officially) in 91 does not mean the F-15 modelled in DCS also is from that time.

 

I don't think you'll find many people agreeing that an F-5 is as good as a MiG-29 or Su-27, not even a heavily upgraded one with AIM-120's.

 

That's why I said let's pretend, I was trying to get my point across.

 

...the obvious answer is the MiG-31. It was mass produced in the 1980's and remains in widespread Russian service. It isn't directly comparable to anything in the west, but as a pure air to air heavy fighter, it can be lumped in with the Su-27 and F-15C.

 

WOW, the Mig-31 is NO fighter, its a bomber/cruise missile interceptor, in a dogfight it would be lunch for pretty much anything with wings.

 

In the case of Russia lagging behind, that is only partially true. Their standard gear still dates from the 1980's I think

 

It does, and their upgrade programme has been a massive mess.

 

It's also worth noting that the MiG-31 is probably the best plane they have in the hundreds and it isn't flyable in DCS.

 

It's not the best plane they have, except at a very specialised area, intercepting bombers and cruise missiles...

 

They've also offered numerous upgrade kits to existing aircraft, such as the MiG-21-97 which adds modern radar, RWR and missiles to the MiG-21. Upgrades like this have been fairly popular in many smaller airforces. You might find this hard to believe, but I think a MiG-21-97 might be fairly balanced with the upcoming F-18C in the air to air role.

 

... and if you look at what upgrades the F/A-18C has had in the same time then you may want to rethink that, no matter how you slice it, the MiG-21 airframe is just out of date, and your arguement can only stand on what it is carrying.... the R-77, which is lagging behind what the F/A-18 can carry....

 

If you take those two aircraft and put them in a gunzo fight, then I would bet my life on the F/A-18 pilot flying home, and the MiG pilot walking home, no matter how many upgrades you give it, it's still a 60's vintage airframe.

[wilky510]

Agree 100% with what you have said.

 

The "simulator" thing...it all about mission planers.

 

Su-27 vs F-15c good, even with amraam there is some sort of balance

 

You put Ef-2000, you put Su-35S

 

You put F-86, you put Mig-15

 

You put P-51, you put Fw-190

 

But adding, F-14A, F-18C and for the red air force nothing? Well it says more about a selling market point of view than about keep the DCS fun. F-14A, you put Mig-31, F-18C (multirole fighter), you put Mig-29k or something similar (Mig-29m2 for that matter).

 

Simple as that. If people say that "no, keep it like that,in reality Russian dont field modernized aircraft" its their take, reality says otherwise.

 

I hope in the future there would be more modules for Flaming Cliffs

 

And if F-14A and F-18C are like a DCS full simulator, that would be awesome. We are only saying, remember us red force pilots :)

 

Regards to all

I think it's been said time and time again it's much harder to attain Russian data on aircraft, without them breaching walls and most likely ending up in jail. It's just this simple fact, it's not about West aircraft selling better or not (they may or not, i'm not sure), and i'm sure if people could develop Russian aircraft i'm sure they would. Did you hear Wags earlier in his stream? He said they've got a F-18 pilot/F-15 pilot helping them out with stuff. That's a big plus for the aircraft they're making. Edited July 2, 2015 by wilky510

[Fer_Fer]

 

 

WOW, the Mig-31 is NO fighter, its a bomber/cruise missile interceptor, in a dogfight it would be lunch for pretty much anything with wings.

 

Well, that is why you cruise it around at high altitude and step the pedal to the metal the moment somebody gets close? (I mean, it had that Glorious MiG 25 top speed right?)

with its radar and missile available it would be a very good BVR platform and very very poorly in the WVR area.

I'd fly it since its an interesting aircraft, and i am confident its possible to very well with it.

 

As for the Phoon keep in mind its the block 5 one, and therefore its lacks quite a bit of its toys and tricks.

[zantron]

I think there has been serious thought about developing aircraft with playable adversaries, but it's in the context of the upcoming maps - not the classic US vs Soviet/Russian hardware that most of us think about.

 

For example, the released or upcoming DCS modules for NTTR map:

 

Blue Forces:

F/A-18C

F-14A/B

A-10C

F-15C (? hoping!)

Mirage 2000

Typhoon

 

Red Forces:

F/A-18C

F-15C (?)

F-5E

F-14A?? (I don't think they were used for adversary work outside of NSAWC)

(The only adversary jet missing is the F-16C)

 

Pretty balanced, especially since 75% of actual adversary jets are more or less covered.

 

Strait of Hormuz - which is really NATO/US/UAE vs Iran. The map doesn't cover an area that supports much Iraq vs Iran (excluding the Tanker Wars).

 

Blue:

F/A-18C

F-14A/B

F-15C(?) - both USAF and RSAF

UAE Mirage 2000s (subvariant?)

A-10C

Typhoon

 

Red:

IRIAF F-14A

IRIAF F-5E

IrAF Mirage F.1(? hinted but not formally announced)

 

Plus IRIAF vs IrAF: IRIAF F-14A vs Mirage F.1 - classic duel from the War.

 

I think that more Soviet/Russian hardware will be announced as the currently announced modules are released. LNS said quite frankly that a MiG-23 is very likely from them in the future, but not next.

 

The match-ups that are coming make good sense given the theaters being developed by ED. These things usually improve as more modules are released anyway.

 

-Nick

i was thinking similar, only with starights i would assume red would also get su-25, mig-29 and mig-21 (to simulate the f-7). regardless whether nevada or persian gulf im looking forward to driving a red mig-28 or any type of mirage. really though with the typhoon (and f-15 and f-18 and no mountains to hide from them in, no idea how thats going to work for the reds over open ocean, not that im complaining i like fidelity and i like a challenge :D

 

anways with an su-35, i really cant imagine anything like that happening as much as id love it. with the info available dcs would pretty much be making a fictional fighter that at best would approximate what an su-35 can do (or not do)

Edited July 3, 2015 by zantron

[WinterH]

(to simulate the f-7).

 

Speaking of which, I think later F-7 versions might be something interesting to play with. They seem to have a proper HUD to begin with... And less wing loading with their new wings. If I'm not mistaken, among the missiles they can use are Chinese copies of Phyton-3 and 4. It also has a more bubble type canopy with probably better outside view. Although I'd expect radar to be bad, at least very short ranged, F-7 nose sections are like earlier MiG-21 types like MiG-21F-13, so nose cone is always shrouded by lots of metal, I'd be surprised if this doesn't impact radar negatively.

 

Buuut I don't really expect to see any Chinese aircraft happen in DCS :). This and J-10 would have been interesting to play with if they could happen :).

[zantron]

Speaking of which, I think later F-7 versions might be something interesting to play with. They seem to have a proper HUD to begin with... And less wing loading with their new wings. If I'm not mistaken, among the missiles they can use are Chinese copies of Phyton-3 and 4. It also has a more bubble type canopy with probably better outside view. Although I'd expect radar to be bad, at least very short ranged, F-7 nose sections are like earlier MiG-21 types like MiG-21F-13, so nose cone is always shrouded by lots of metal, I'd be surprised if this doesn't impact radar negatively.

 

Buuut I don't really expect to see any Chinese aircraft happen in DCS :). This and J-10 would have been interesting to play with if they could happen :).

im a huge sinophile so any chinese bird would be awesome, i do really like the aesthetics of the f-7. since the info isn't there for full fidelity, i would still be super happy if they could make a FC3 version of the J-10 complete with PFM.

 

apparently somebody has made a fsx sim for it, not up to FC3 standards but still cool

http://www.pcaviator.com.au/store/product.php?productid=400600

Edited July 3, 2015 by zantron

[Anduriel]

You are wrong my friend,the Su-35 is not that far more capable than Su-27SM2,also the SM2 version has the Irbis-E radar and other technology of the Su-35.

False.

First, there is no actual Su-27SM2. There are Su-27SM of several blocks of upgrades, also Su-27SM based on 12 unused Su-27SK planes (originally planned for China and are so-called Su-27SM3).

The difference between blocks of Su-27SM is minor, Su-27SM3 is more upgraded than Su-27SM, including new Engines Al-31FM1 with 13.5 AFB thrust (Su-27SM have original AL-31F) and other changes. Yet all of them feature N001V radar with twist-Cassegrain antennae and additional modes for AtG work and usage of AtoA missiles with active seekers.

Upgrade of Su-27 with N035 Irbis was scrapped due to high cost of the redar itself and necessity of installing new generators and deep upgrade of electric system due to high consumption of a new radar compared to old N001. There were plans for upgrading N001 with passive electronic array antenna ("Pero", "Feather"), but I've yet to find any data saying that it wen past testing trials to serial production.

Thus Su-35 which has N035, better IRST with FLIR, new MAWS, better EW suite, new 14.5t TVC engines, remodelled airframe is in league of it's own compared to other Flanker series, Su-30SM/MKI/MKM/MKA included.

[Capn kamikaze]

I mean, it had that Glorious MiG 25 top speed right?

 

Close but not quite, and in either case certainly not faster than a slammer or winder.

[King_Hrothgar]

Which is only relevant if the intended victim is bumping the launch rail of the attacker. In all other cases, it's whether or not the missile can reach the intended target before the target's energy exceeds the missile's energy. A fighter going mach 3 at 20km has an awful lot of energy, even when compared to a fighter doing mach 2.2 at 15km. A missile fired by that lower and slower fighter is going to have a very hard time reaching the higher energy target in anything but a head on attack. The faster plane also has the option of avoiding the fight entirely if they wish. Being able to pick your fights is a hell of an advantage to have even if your plane comes up short in all other ways.

[Wizard_03]

They should make Yak-38M we need a VTOL fighter, to smoke all the helicopters with.

[Xeno426]

They should make Yak-38M we need a VTOL fighter, to smoke all the helicopters with.

While I would like to see a VTOL, I don't think the Yak-38M would be terribly interesting.

[Wizard_03]

While I would like to see a VTOL, I don't think the Yak-38M would be terribly interesting.

I kind of agree, but I think it would be fairly simple to model and I'm sure data on it is probably still available. But rumor is Razbam is bringing their Harrier to DCS so i'm sure we'll get our VTOL fix eventually. I just figure we need more Russian carrier ops since were getting F-14 F-18 and A-7

[Python]

I kind of agree, but I think it would be fairly simple to model and I'm sure data on it is probably still available. But rumor is Razbam is bringing their Harrier to DCS so i'm sure we'll get our VTOL fix eventually. I just figure we need more Russian carrier ops since were getting F-14 F-18 and A-7

 

We will even if they don't as VEAO are making a Sea Harrier which should be fun ;)

[WinterH]

I am all for obscure aircraft usually, but, in case of Yak-38, even I have to let out a loud "meh..." :).

[Python]

We will even if they don't as VEAO are making a Sea Harrier which should be fun ;)

 

 

Not sure I deserved the negative rep for this post McBlemmen?

[Oubaas]

We need a lot more Russian/Soviet aircraft, but not always the obvious choices.

 

I'd like to suggest:

 

Tu-22M3

Su-15

Su-7BM

Tu-95

MiG-23/27

MiG-31

Mi-26

 

But any additional Russian aircraft or helicopters would be nice, even the flashy ones that everyone loves. But let's not forget the less glamorous work horses. They're fun too.

[Virun]

Tu-22M3

Tu-95

MiG-31

 

Not in this century, unfortunately.

[zxarkov]

Sukhoi Su-27SM No question....more detail,clickable buttons...higher fidelity...Some day perhaps.

[Oubaas]

Much as I would love a study module of any Su-27 variant, when thinking of aircraft that we might realistically one day hope to see in-game, I think the MiG-29 deserves more attention.

 

There are plenty of people clamoring for an F-16, but I seem to be one of the rare few who would really like to have a MiG-29 study module. Nearly everyone immediately thinks Su-27 as soon as you mention Russian fighters. And yet the MiG-29 has played a bigger role in world affairs over the years.

[Grigs]

Much as I would love a study module of any Su-27 variant, when thinking of aircraft that we might realistically one day hope to see in-game, I think the MiG-29 deserves more attention.

 

There are plenty of people clamoring for an F-16, but I seem to be one of the rare few who would really like to have a MiG-29 study module. Nearly everyone immediately thinks Su-27 as soon as you mention Russian fighters. And yet the MiG-29 has played a bigger role in world affairs over the years.

Maybe, but you can fly longer in a Su-27 :D

[frantzleb0ucher]

MIG-31 as F-14 counterparts

[Xeno426]

MIG-31 as F-14 counterparts

The problem with the MiG-31 is that it intercepts... and not much else. It can't dogfight, so its whole schtick will be firing at long range and acting sort of like a mini-AWACS for other aircraft.

 

The versions that are likely to be modeled (i.e. the original and maybe the MiG-31B) don't have any ground-attack capability, so even that would be out.

[King_Hrothgar]

And that's a problem because??? I realize pure fighters aren't for everyone, but some of us do enjoy them. The MiG-25PD, MiG-23MLA and MiG-31 are what I'd like on the fixed wing Russian side. I do enjoy ground attack too, but I'd prefer that in the form of a Mi-24.

[McBlemmen]

And that's a problem because??? I realize pure fighters aren't for everyone, .

 

I'm gonna stop you right there because you missed the point. It's not about not having ground attacks , it's about not being able to do anything other then firing long range missiles and run away.