Using Warthog with BS2

[dburne]

Hey gang,

 

I now have the BS2 module installed into DCS World.

I have a new TM Warthog controller along with Saitek Combat Pedals.

 

I notice there is a stock DCS Black Shark profile for TARGET.

I am curious if any Warthog users are using it with BS2? And what your thoughts might be on it?

 

I see it has the paddle assigned for the trimmer, which is what I would want. But it also is programmed with a key press and release - I would think one would want it to be a key hold whilst holding the paddle in, followed by a release after it is released? Seems like that is how I had the similar paddle on my Cougar programmed for the original Black Shark.

 

I would appreciate any feedback from any Warthog users on this, thanks.

[JesseJames38]

Tryed it, it utter crap in my personal opions. I really think Thurstmaster just put it in there just so they could say they had a profile for it. Just like the P-51 mustang. Sunshine and i set up the warthog for a much more useful profile and system relating items next to each button. It deffently makes it a much better killing machine.

[roob]

=STP=Dragon has a nice profile for the Warthog in BS2

[dburne]

Ah ok thanks, I will work on my own profile for it then. I will just try to replicate basically what I had for BS1 for my Cougar when I was using it.

[Aviators]

http://files.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/208129/

use this profile ;)

[Puddlemonkey]

I don't like TARGET - it's an extra layer of unecessary complexity. I recommend editing lua files to create 'stateful' switch commands as the defaults are mostly toggle commands. Then you can set the option to sync the HOTAS controls with the controller in the DCS options.

 

All within DCS, no third party. Some more info here or if you want a lua file, let me know.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1428587#post1428587

 

PM

[Aviators]

http://files.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/208129/ it's file .LUA ;)

[tietze]

My profile and documentation of it is available here (or my signature): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2910357/fsim/Docs/KA-50-HOTAS_setup.pdf

 

[Slayer]

I hate to say it but if you want to fly more than 1 aircraft in a multiplayer DCS World game then using TARGET is out of the question because target remaps all the controllers to one unified control.

 

Not sure how you can do it in the context of the game as TARGET reloads controls when you switch profiles ( IE as if you unplugged the controller) which will screw up the game controls.

 

Best idea is to map all through the game. then you have custom settings for each aircraft. All axis can be tuned in the game same as TARGET.

 

Also the shark has a decent default profile already built in to support TM WH. You can use it with minimal changes to our prefrence...

[dburne]

Many thanks for the great help gang. I am mostly just offline play, not really into multiplayer - at least not now. But I think I will delve into maybe just trying to assign my controls from within the sim, rather than using Target at first, and see how that goes.

[tietze]

I hate to say it but if you want to fly more than 1 aircraft in a multiplayer DCS World game then using TARGET is out of the question because target remaps all the controllers to one unified control.

 

I rarely shop around in different modules, but usually have a good idea about what I want to fly before I launch multiplayer. But how can it be harder than choosing another TARGET script?

 

Using TARGET software is more cumbersome, but due to the sloppy DCS GUI for setting up controllers and the continuous stream of bugs and instabilities in the software I prefer to rely on TARGET scripts for the time being. In addition to being a stable platform for setting up controls for the sim, and it gives possibilities for macros and customizing curves in a way that suits me ;)

 

Best idea is to map all through the game. then you have custom settings for each aircraft. All axis can be tuned in the game same as TARGET.

 

I do not disagree that TARGET is not the "best idea", but it gives you much more options for customizing the joystick axis curve - provided you use the "SetCustomCurve()" as done in the linked script.

Edited December 10, 2012 by tietze

[Yurgon]

I rarely shop around in different modules, but usually have a good idea about what I want to fly before I launch multiplayer. But how can it be harder than choosing another TARGET script?

 

I spent a couple hours creating my own TARGET profile for BS2. Now that I'm nearly done, I realized that it doesn't allow me to switch between modules in a single session. For A-10C, I don't use TARGET, for BS2 I currently do.

 

The bad thing is that by activating or deactivating the TARGET profile, controllers disappear and others appear. DCS doesn't seem to be able to handle this type of getting robbed of controllers while running. It doesn't crash, but it just doesn't recognize the new set of controllers. So it seems the only way to make it work is to use TARGET for all modules or for none.

 

Another point would be: I can't currently Alt-Tab out of DCS multiplayer, so in order to be able to change the TARGET profile, I'd have to run DCS in windowed mode or have the TARGET application run on a second screen. Not all players can afford that luxury.

 

The situation as such is quite uncomfortable. TARGET in itself is very powerful but has it's limitations when it comes to DCS World + Modules. And I would have gone completely insane if I'd done more than axis mapping inside World because I've installed it so often. Maybe the problem will be gone with the auto updater, but I don't yet trust it to keep my key bindings in place.

[Priest]

Best idea is to map all through the game. then you have custom settings for each aircraft. All axis can be tuned in the game same as TARGET...

 

Except that to my knowledge you cannot fully custom map three position switches on the TM Warthog within DCS and must use TARGET to do so. In my opinion, TARGET really does allow greater function over DCS. The exception being DCS: A-10C due to the sweeeeeet marriage of DCS: A-10C + TM Warthog that requires damn near zero tinkering to work 100% as it should. Note: DCS: A-10C + TM Warthog ease of use is NOT normal, which is why TARGET exists.

[dburne]

The situation as such is quite uncomfortable. TARGET in itself is very powerful but has it's limitations when it comes to DCS World + Modules. And I would have gone completely insane if I'd done more than axis mapping inside World because I've installed it so often. Maybe the problem will be gone with the auto updater, but I don't yet trust it to keep my key bindings in place.

 

I must say, I have had my hands so full with trying to learn A-10C I have not even begun to really delve into BS2 as of yet, so have not had to make that choice yet. I have used Target for some other sims, and it is very powerful indeed in what it can do. Of course, I would not use it for A-10C for as you say, it works so sweetly with it.

 

All my flying so far has been in single player, and most likely will stay that way, so using Target for the other modules probably would not be that big a deal for me. But, I think I will try assigning from within the module itself at first, when I do get going with BS2.

I understand about the concern of losing the key bindings, but can't we save custom keybindings anyway from within the controller options, and have them available to load if things do go astray? My other concern would be the ability to add and use a modifier, like the paddle for certain things - I tried that with A-10C and my pov hat, and it was problematic for me. Perhaps I did something wrong and will try again.

[tietze]

Except that to my knowledge you cannot fully custom map three position switches on the TM Warthog within DCS and must use TARGET to do so.

 

In Black Shark 2 connecting a Thrustmaster Warthog would open up special possibilities for key bindings, as sketched here.

 

Ins Weapons Status and Control Panel PUI-800

Burst length - long

Burst length - short

Ins Countermeasures dispensers UV-26

UV-26 Select Both boards

UV-26 Select Left board

UV-26 Select Right board

 

It is possible to open up for those key bindings in DCS World by copying a device profile that contains those bindings (code shown below, same as the one linked in my signature). In other words it is not a limitation of the DCS software. If things were documented I would expect it to be quite easy to program this. But I haven't found this documentation yet - and not yet tinkered enough with it to figure everything out. I do not expect the DCS controller configuration software to enable such advanced bindings.

 

When that is said, I guess you can find the cockpit_device_id's here:

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Ka-50\Cockpit\Scripts\devices.lua

 

And:

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Ka-50\Cockpit\Scripts\command_defs.lua

 

Taking a look at line 691-694, buttons on the panel (device_commands) seems to be numbered from 3001 and up to 3050. Controlling burst mode is done with device_command 3004 and values 0, 0.1 and 0.2. As you can see on line 9-10 in the code below you can assign values to joystick buttons, when it is going up and down. In this way you can make the FLAPS-switch on the TM WH Throttle control burst lenght:

 

Upper position: long burst lenght (value=0.2)

Middle: middle burst lenght (value=0.1)

Down: short burst length (value=0)

 

Device profile.lua:

function layout()
return {
forceFeedback = {
	trimmer = 1,
	shake = 0.5,
	swapAxes = false,
},
keyCommands = {
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN1"}, }, down = 3004, up = 3004, cockpit_device_id = 12, value_down = 0.2, value_up = 0.1, name = "Burst length - long", category = "Ins Weapons Status and Control Panel PUI-800"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN2"}, }, down = 3004, up = 3004, cockpit_device_id = 12, value_down = 0, value_up = 0.1, name = "Burst length - short", category = "Ins Weapons Status and Control Panel PUI-800"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN6"}, }, down = iCommandPlaneFire, up = iCommandPlaneFireOff, name = "Gun fire", category = "Ins Cyclic Stick"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN7"}, }, down = iCommandPlanePickleOn, up = iCommandPlanePickleOff, name = "Release weapons", category = "Ins Cyclic Stick"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN5"}, }, down = 3001, cockpit_device_id = 22, value_down = 0.1, name = "UV-26 Select Both boards", category = "Ins Countermeasures dispensers UV-26"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN3"}, }, down = 3001, cockpit_device_id = 22, value_down = 0, name = "UV-26 Select Left  board", category = "Ins Countermeasures dispensers UV-26"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN4"}, }, down = 3002, cockpit_device_id = 22, value_down = 0.2, name = "UV-26 Select Right board", category = "Ins Countermeasures dispensers UV-26"},
},
axisCommands = {
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_RX"}, }, action = iCommandPlaneSelecterHorizontalAbs, name = "Absolute SHKVAL Horizontal Slew"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_RY"}, }, action = iCommandPlaneSelecterVerticalAbs, name = "Absolute SHKVAL Vertical Slew"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_SLIDER1"}, }, action = iCommandPlaneCollective, name = "Flight Control Collective"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_Y"}, }, action = iCommandPlanePitch, name = "Flight Control Cyclic Pitch"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_X"}, }, action = iCommandPlaneRoll, name = "Flight Control Cyclic Roll"},
	{combos = {{key = "JOY_SLIDER2"}, }, action = iCommandViewZoomAbs, name = "Zoom View"},
},
}
end

[Rusty_M]

I just created a control layout by looking at the pictures of the cyclic and collective in the manual and matched that as well as I could. The Master Mode button became "designate target/uncage Shkval" The paddle became wheelbrakes, the CMS switch controls trim. I think I assigned burst length to the flaps control on the throttle, too. the speedbrake switch controls Shkval POV.

 

I've not played BS or A-10 in a few months (I have no real reason for this, just been playing other stuff). so I can't remember the rest really.

[Yurgon]

I understand about the concern of losing the key bindings, but can't we save custom keybindings anyway from within the controller options, and have them available to load if things do go astray?

 

Yes, that should be no problem at all.

 

I was thinking of installing a new version of World. Lots of players asked how they could transfer their key bindings from the old installation to the new one. And the answer was always: Don't do that, it may break things in the new installation.

 

Hopefully, that's a problem of the past, now that we have the auto-updater. But I'm not yet ready to do the complete Warthog bindings for BS2 in World as that'll surely take a few more hours and I really don't want to waste that time in case a future update breaks key binding compatibility again.

 

My other concern would be the ability to add and use a modifier, like the paddle for certain things - I tried that with A-10C and my pov hat, and it was problematic for me. Perhaps I did something wrong and will try again.

 

Never tried that in DCS, but it's simple with TARGET. Damn TM for not allowing us to configure how the sim sees the controllers. :cry: