Announcing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3

[ALDEGA]

Why make the F-15 when the next fighter will be American one,,

Perhaps the F-15C is the next DCS flyable and the cockpit was recreated with high detail to allow cockpit interaction ...

[Teknetinium]

Perhaps the F-15C is the next DCS flyable and the cockpit was recreated with high detail to allow cockpit interaction ...

 

Even a bigger reason to make something els then F-15, or they are just ripping of money.

[ALDEGA]

So, if it was (already) made for a dedicated DCS module, you'd rather they didn't use it in FC3? (all speculation of course ;))

[Nate--IRL--]

Even a bigger reason to make something els then F-15, or they are just ripping of money.

 

Ripping off money? Nobody is forcing you to purchase FC3. The features were clearly stated. You were told what was going to be included well beforehand.

 

Nate

[Axion]

The ability to fly in the common playground of my squad mates is good enough for me atm, cheers ED.

[Cali]

Even a bigger reason to make something els then F-15, or they are just ripping of money.

 

Like a F-16 or -18 :D

[Brisafresca]

Hi

 

Is it possible that multiple clients SU-33 can take off at once from the Kuznetsov?

 

Regards

 

Brisafresca

[Ripcord]

Oh what the hell, take my money. Worth it get all these planes flyable, I suppose, in DCS World.

[Hyperion35]

I have no problem with giving ED my money, but I do expect that in return I will be able to play the game. I purchased LOMAC from the Ubisoft store from the link on the FC3 webpage. Downloaded and installed it. Purchased FC3, downloaded the FC3 module for DCS: World. All my other DCS: World modules installed just fine. When I tried to install the FC3 module, I get a message that Lock On: Modern Air Combat must be installed. I get this message even if I have LOMAC running at the same time.

 

 

 

[Pilotasso]

There seems to be a glitch. The CD version of Lockon seems to be the cure until this is fixed.

[Teknetinium]

Ripping off money? Nobody is forcing you to purchase FC3. The features were clearly stated. You were told what was going to be included well beforehand.

 

Nate

 

Yes everything was known Nate, I didn't mean that FC3 is ripping of money, I just want to say that its not fear to work only on one side since it is FC product. Those who started fly this simulator did it not only for the F-15 and the community have been saying that since the announcement of FC2 and FC3.

 

it looks like there is good drones to shot down for F-15 at the moment. Don't take me wrong I'm happy whit EDs overall work, its only one sided.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Teknetinium

[Teknetinium]

Im sure there would be as much in EDs pocket if the approach would be more even, A-10C DCS, Su-25T DCS, Ka-50 DCS, AH-64DCS, F-15 DCS, Su-27DCS, the models are irrelevant, but the order would be more productive for EDs world.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Teknetinium

[Nate--IRL--]

I have to admit I'd love a DCS Su-27

 

Nate

[HiJack]

We all would love a DCS Su-27 Nate!

[Squid]

We all would love a DCS Su-27 Nate!

 

 

including me :D

[Witchking]

Damn! Yeah....a DCS Flanker would be a pleasant surprise. Man!! I can't imagine how amazing it would be to fly that bird. TM must make a russian stick for the warthog then. :p

[159th_Falcon]

Hi

 

Is it possible that multiple clients SU-33 can take off at once from the Kuznetsov?

 

Regards

 

Brisafresca

Yes, this is possible, but requires some co-ordination between players.

 

Let all players pick a su33 slot but don't hit fly yet.

First one hits fly, goes full burner then idle again to taxi away and clear the deck. (he could set up on spot 3)

Then 2nd player hits fly, taxi away again and set up on spot 2

then 3rd player hits fly and he will be right were he needs to be.

 

Take-off when your all happy to do so.

[JorgeIII]

As posted before:

 

I'm very sorry to say that it FC3 has terrible physics (IMO).

It's in no way comparable to the flight physics you will feel with the A-10, Ka-50, P-51 or Su-25. The Su-25 has very simplified systems but AFM at least.

I only tried the F-15 (beatifull cockpit by the way) but it's so arcade that I wont fly FC3, period. It's a beta but it's so bad that I don't think it can be improved to an acceptable level for final release (or later).

It actually feels like flying an Arma II plane inside DCS World, or worse.

There wont be open missions with FC3 planes in our squadron server.

[MaverickF22]

Concerning High fidelity Flight Model for the F-16, there is a project in preparation, there. By CptSmiley and the VCR Team.

They accessed impressive collection of real data charts to create their EFM. So just wait. Pinnacle of simming is accessible and partly already there with DCS BS, A-10c and P-51. Other projects like DCS Mig-21bis by Beczl is incoming and as you can see in the forum, initiatives are multiplying.

 

That's great news..., thanks for telling!:) So there's someone working on the F-16 for DCS! It's the best news i've ever been expecting from ED/TFC or third party members..., to have an AFM/HFFM F-16 in DCS, it's like an old dream come true...!

 

Meanwhile, until the F-16 arrives..., i want to talk now a little bit about the "changes" or whatever they are in FC3 as i just bought it yesterday..., and here's what i have to say, even if i'm a piss off for some people here..., but there are still things yet not understood or they are pretended not to be...:

 

1. The roll rate of the Flanker is still high, no matter how did you calculate it or how is the formula of Cl (rolling momentum coefficient) varying with airspeed, it doesn't have the right values! And you're going to ask me for the graphs of it, but i don't have them yet! Even if you're going to judge me because i compare it to real life footage..., it shows exactly how far the roll rates in our "sim" exceed quite much the real ones, not to mention that when instantly applying a full left roll to a full right one and vice-versa, the elevons and flaperons also instantly deflect (no mechanical inertia at all), and so does the plane itself too (no rolling momentum inertia), and it looks very ugly for a 25 tons aircraft to do that even at speeds well below 400km/h for example, reason for which some people who might try it the first time will ask something like: "What is this shit?", and there's nothing you can say to them!

 

2. Yet it seems like the devs have tweaked the CD (drag coefficient) of the Flanker and increased it, which is more realistic now, but the CL (lift coef.) is still a bit higher than normal..., anyway, thumbs up:thumbup: for this at least!

 

3. The F-15 Eagle's CD has been also increased (although it was already a bit higher than it should be) and it's even more exaggerated, but you also increased it's CL which had good values and now the Eagle turns like the real Flanker should do:P! So i'm not getting anything anymore and i think i should quit this!

 

In other terms, someone has made a "balance" between the Eagle and the Flanker by adding some drag to both and some lift for the Eagle:P...! Where are you FC1?

 

I don't want anyone to think that i'm an Eagle lover or a Flanker lover, NO! I love both the Flanker and the Eagle in the same way..., as a matter affect i like/love the Flanker even more for some reason, yet i can't find their flight models realistic..., and who's gonna listen to me just because i say it, if i don't have their real CL; CD vs alpha graphs, yet there should be someone higher than me who should have them..., and those are the devs which are russians as i know..., so at least, they should have the real Flanker's aerodynamics polars and graphs without the need to obtain them with CFD or with whatever the hell complicated method! So why don't the devs have the real Cl; CL; CD coeffs for the Flanker?

 

I only want these flight models to be better, that's all, i'm not here to criticize anyone, cause i already see how i'm being pushed back for that...! So i'm only trying to figure out what needs to be done, if something can be done to bring these FM's for Flanker and Eagle to a closer value to the real ones, until a true AFM will come and replace them!

 

So now as i've bought FC3 i can only lie myself for what i've really wanted to see fixed in it..., so i'd only be pleased with the graphics..., and with the AFM for missiles which is way better so far:thumbup:, the AMRAAM has a reduced smoke, and the SRM (short range missile) has a more realistic guidance after launch:thumbup: (a guidance delay, dunno of it's the real one but it's better) + an increased alpha and/or beta angle when turning (this simulates way better the R-73 Archer which is a TV controlled missile).

 

Respectfully,

Maverick!

[genbrien]

As posted before:

 

I'm very sorry to say that it FC3 has terrible physics (IMO).

It's in no way comparable to the flight physics you will feel with the A-10, Ka-50, P-51 or Su-25. The Su-25 has very simplified systems but AFM at least.

I only tried the F-15 (beatifull cockpit by the way) but it's so arcade that I wont fly FC3, period. It's a beta but it's so bad that I don't think it can be improved to an acceptable level for final release (or later).

It actually feels like flying an Arma II plane inside DCS World, or worse.

There wont be open missions with FC3 planes in our squadron server.

 

And where was it said that it would be comparable to the A-10, ka-50, p-51 and su-25?

It's been very clear that they have simplified flight model, wich is the same as Lomac

 

It's do sad that people have such difficulties to read and understand a product they buy...

[Exorcet]

It's in no way comparable to the flight physics you will feel with the A-10, Ka-50, P-51 or Su-25.

 

There no way you could have missed that. It's not like ED tried to hide this. That's why it's FC3, not DCS High fidelity fighter pack.

 

It actually feels like flying an Arma II plane inside DCS World, or worse.

There wont be open missions with FC3 planes in our squadron server.

 

It's not DCS, but it's not "arcade"

 

How different would this look with a DCS module?

 

 

Also, does your server use AI aircraft? They have simpler flight models and "AI" compared to FC3 planes.

[GGTharos]

I only tried the F-15 (beatifull cockpit by the way) but it's so arcade

 

That word does not mean what you think it means. I assume you're not capable of actually comparing an arcade flight game to FC, which is why you said the above.

 

It actually feels like flying an Arma II plane inside DCS World, or worse.

 

And once more, it appears that you are not able to evaluate a flight model whatsoever.

[JorgeIII]

It's in no way comparable to the flight physics you will feel with the A-10, Ka-50, P-51 or Su-25.

 

There no way you could have missed that. It's not like ED tried to hide this. That's why it's FC3, not DCS High fidelity fighter pack.

 

 

You’re right. I was optimistic, buy I did read somewhere about new landing, taxing physics.

 

It's not DCS, but it's not "arcade".

 

Well, if by arcade you mean a 1980s Atari plane game, FC3 is of course better. But you get my point, right?

 

How different would this look with a DCS module?

 

Just from the first seconds: a DCS module would slightly roll and bounce while each weapon/tank is loaded in each wing, you would see the effect of the weight in the shocks. You can see this differences and the F-15 is no even taxing. Not to mention the Eagle was started in a few seconds and touching two buttons (well, I cant see the last one :)). After there it will take me pages to describe what looks obvious to me.

Nice flying.

 

 

[Also, does your server use AI aircraft? They have simpler flight models and "AI" compared to FC3 planes.

 

Yes, we use AI aircrafts sometimes. We don’t use external views and usually only see them close enough while taxing or air refueling. I'm certain I couldn't tell if the tanker had AFM while its flying in a straight line.

 

Actually I prefer to have a human pilot flying it if he wants to, much better than AI. But it won’t be me in a FC3 plane. Nor it’ll will be an unknown pilot, just to prevent point and shoot gamers entering the server.

 

I gues that open servers slots for FC3 will be up to each server seriousness/tolerability.

 

I've bought 12 Keys for DCS products since the release of BS1. For personal use, gifts, server use and ED support. I'm a devote client and frequent user. I find DCS Ka-50, A-10C and P-51D to be excellent, unique, simulators.

 

I bought this week two keys for FC3 and after testing it resulted to be the exact opposite kind of product I would like to support. My error.

 

 

@GGTharos: I’m sorry if I’m critical of a product you seem to be fan off. Just stating an opinion here and looking for feedback other than my squadron fellows.

Edited November 11, 2012 by JorgeIII

[Cali]

 

 

@GGTharos: I’m sorry if I’m critical of a product you seem to be fan off. Just stating an opinion here and looking for feedback other than my squadron fellows.

 

JorgeIII, have you flown a copter, fighter jet, airliner? Just wanting to know what your credentials on testing and comparing flight models are.

[GGTharos]

Don't be sorry for being critical; plenty of people are, and some of them can actually make good points.

 

To claim that the SFM is 'arcade' is disingenuous. It is quite a bit more limited than the AFM, but unlike an arcade game, the SFM actually gives you very reasonable DACT, even if it fails at representing certain flight characteristics. You'll find it will operate very nicely against any AFM aircraft, and represent the flight envelope as you would expect. You just won't be suffering very realistic stalls or other edge conditions with it. You don't get a simulation of asymmetric stores or drag. But you will get reasonable performance.

 

But here, let's define what arcade really means, because it really is represented by certain games of the genre: No jet engine lag, no gravity, all the aircraft turn with more or less the same TR, there are no real flight envelopes that are preferable when flying one aircraft vs another, etc etc. That's arcade.

 

So, it's great if you want to be all high and mighty and not fly SFM in your squad - that's great, no one's particularly worried. But don't go off lying: The SFM isn't even close to arcade. It actually is a flight model, even if it's old and limited.

 

@GGTharos: I’m sorry if I’m critical of a product you seem to be fan off. Just stating an opinion here and looking for feedback other than my squadron fellows.