Mk-82 Hi Drag

[Praetorx]

When would you ever use Mk-82's in hi drag? They seem so inaccurate

[cichlidfan]

When would you ever use Mk-82's in hi drag? They seem so inaccurate

 

If you deploy them the way they were intended to be used, at very low altitudes, in multiples and against appropriate targets, they do quite a nice job.

 

Edited September 2, 2012 by cichlidfan

[Kuky]

^^^^

And you have your airframe full of shrapnel holes, and in that last pass from 12 bombs dropped you got 2 trucks destroyed so not really good.

[cichlidfan]

^^^^

And you have your airframe full of shrapnel holes

 

Not on the second run. That is a bit low but I didn't find the vid I wanted. Can't recall who made it.

[Kuky]

Yeah well I think considering how low the bombs are dropped outcome is not very good because even with such soft targets like trucks you do not get many destroyed. This high drag bomb version is really inacurate. I think if you do same pass with Su-25 and drop FAB-100 bombs from MER it would have more effect. Hell, even B8 rockets salvo can get all those trucks in one pass.

[Kuky]

Here's quick video I made with Su-25T making one pass on column with tanks, APC's, AA and trucks (12 vehicles total), after one pass using MER of FAB-100 bombs only one T-55 and one AA using survived.

 

_3ulMvA7k08

Edited September 2, 2012 by Kuky

[yoyo_the_reaper]

i use these bomb for specific mission :

- low level/hight speed attack because of SAM threat (unknown SA-8 position in the area)

- static and very known target position

- soft target

this include

- airfield destruction, using a ripple mode with a delay adapted to the length of the airfield

- terrorist camp / Farp

 

for the airfield, it's easy to avoid AAA (excluding SHILKA!) on the first pass only

[Eddie]

They are used for low level deliveries where low drag bombs cannot be used/are not desired. And when used correctly they are no less accurate than any other free fall munition.

 

2 Examples of high drag deliveries (VLD and 10LAHD). Low drag munitions could not have been used for either attack.

 

 

[Ironhand]

They are used for low level deliveries where low drag bombs cannot be used/are not desired. And when used correctly they are no less accurate than any other free fall munition.

 

2 Examples of high drag deliveries (VLD and 10LAHD). Low drag munitions could not have been used for either attack.

 

 

Do you by any chance have the tracks for those?

 

 

Rich

[Eddie]

No, got rid of them as soon as the videos had been recorded.

[Ironhand]

No, got rid of them as soon as the videos had been recorded.

Too bad.

 

 

Rich

[Essah]

Hi drags are more suited for fast mowers since they're less vulnerable to ground fire than the A-10. A-10 is better off doing dive attack and breaking off before getting too close.

[Eddie]

If there is no medium level air defence or fighter threat that is true, other wise ground fire from your target is the least of your worries.

 

And although the A-10 may be more likely to be hit my ground fire than fighters moving at high speed, the ground fire is far less likely to bring it down if it is hit compared to a fighter.

[NineLine]

The moral of the story, pick the right ordnance for the right situation ;)

[marcos]

You would use them if you needed to come in very low to avoid radar and make a pass on a huge unmissable target like an airfield. You won't get CCIP levels of accuracy with them.

[Eddie]

You won't get CCIP levels of accuracy with them.

 

Well that is the weirdest and most nonsensical comment I've read today. If you use CCIP you will indeed (of course) obtain CCIP level accuracy.

[mvsgas]

Some info, from another aircraft, but I think relevant.

[AtaliaA1]

You would use them if you needed to come in very low to avoid radar and make a pass on a huge unmissable target like an airfield. You won't get CCIP levels of accuracy with them.

 

 

I think Marcos means CCIP from higher altitudes.

[Laud]

I think Marcos means CCIP from higher altitudes.

 

I think he means CCIP with LDGP Bombs (which comes along with a bit more altitude). ;)

[marcos]

Well that is the weirdest and most nonsensical comment I've read today. If you use CCIP you will indeed (of course) obtain CCIP level accuracy.

Not commonly used with high-drag bombs though. Yes I seen your shallow angle dive but if you couldn't start any higher than 200 ft, or maybe 100ft or less, that would be a non-starter, if you can, then JDAMs. Back in 1982 an aircraft, which you may remember, was sent to bomb an airfield and upon rising to 500ft to start the attack, they received a SAM lock, but fortunately we'd designed the SAM system being used and jammed it.;) That was 30 years ago. Nowadays flying around at 500ft will receive far more SAM attention, or even 200ft for that matter. The whole purpose of HDGPs is for when altitude and CCIP delivery isn't an option. In your example, an LDGP could just as easily, infact more easily, have been used.

 

CCRP is for hitting the side of barns though.

LDGP.trk

Edited September 3, 2012 by marcos

[Jona33]

JDAM's won't work at 500 feet, plus, you can use CCIP with the FPM only just below the horizon. Far easier to use CCIP.

[marcos]

JDAM's won't work at 500 feet, plus, you can use CCIP with the FPM only just below the horizon. Far easier to use CCIP.

An with LDGP you can use it on the horizon.

 

JDAM working at 500ft attached. And if JDAMs work a suitably frigged group of CBU-XXXs will too. In all honesty the HDGP is a poor weapon for the A-10, in fact I don't recall the last time they were used in combat by any NATO aircraft. Vietnam? Since then, Tornado JP-233s in Desert Storm are as close to HDGP as it's got.

JDAM.trk

Edited September 3, 2012 by marcos

[Eddie]

Not commonly used with high-drag bombs though.

 

HDGP bombs are pretty much exclusively delivered using CCIP aiming. In fact apart from low and medium altitude toss deliveries, all unguided bomb deliveries use CCIP aiming.

 

The whole purpose of HDGPs is for when altitude and CCIP delivery isn't an option.

 

No, the purpose of HDGP bombs is to allow you to deliver weapons in situations where you would be unable to escape the blast/fragmentation of low drag munitions. CCIP/CCRP has nothing at all to do with it.

 

In your example, an LDGP could just as easily, infact more easily, have been used.

 

Again, no. If that delivery had been performed with low drag munitions the aircraft would not have been able to escape the blast/fragmentation of the weapons.

 

As an example, a demo video for a Low Angle Low Drag delivery. Note how much higher the release and recovery altitudes are, and if you pay attention to the RTSE cues in the HUD you'll notice that at the point of release the aircraft was only just above the minimum recovery altitude.

 

 

CCIP and CCRP are aiming methods, and nothing else, they are not delivery methods in themselves and have no bearing on the type of munition employed.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Eddie

[Eddie]

An with LDGP you can use it on the horizon.

 

JDAM working at 500ft attached. And if JDAMs work a suitably frigged group of CBU-XXXs will too. In all honesty the HDGP is a poor weapon for the A-10, in fact I don't recall the last time they were used in combat by any NATO aircraft. Vietnam? Since then, Tornado JP-233s in Desert Storm are as close to HDGP as it's got.

 

2 big problems there.

 

1. The only reason you were able to fly away from that attack is that weapon blast/fragmentation cones are not realistically modelled at present. You were well outside the safe escape parameters for a 2000lb weapon.#

 

2. You were only able to even employ the JDAM in that situation because they are not implemented in a fully realistic manner. Ignoring item 1, had you dropped a JDAM at that altitude in reality it would have behaved exactly like a standard Mk-84 LDGP as it wouldn't have time to even begin it's guidance process. In fact the JDAM manuals specifically state that employment from low altitude (using a toss delivery) is not recommended or desired.

 

HDGP weapons are trained with constantly, the only reason they haven't been used for a while is that we haven't had a situation that required their use. JDAM, Paveway, JSOW and other guided weapons are always preferred, and as we haven't had a conflict where low level tactics were required, it goes without saying that low level specific weapons have not been used either.

[marcos]

2 big problems there.

 

1. The only reason you were able to fly away from that attack is that weapon blast/fragmentation cones are not realistically modelled at present. You were well outside the safe escape parameters for a 2000lb weapon.#

Well the reason you accurately hit the target delivering a chuted bomb via CCIP is because the physics aren't modelled properly.

 

2. You were only able to even employ the JDAM in that situation because they are not implemented in a fully realistic manner. Ignoring item 1, had you dropped a JDAM at that altitude in reality it would have behaved exactly like a standard Mk-84 LDGP as it wouldn't have time to even begin it's guidance process. In fact the JDAM manuals specifically state that employment from low altitude (using a toss delivery) is not recommended or desired.

Similarly a chuted bomb would have flopped about and missed and definitely not landed exactly where the pipper dot was. The onboard computer is good but it can't accurately calculate conditions during chute deployment and the time taken for that deployment.

 

HDGP weapons are trained with constantly, the only reason they haven't been used for a while is that we haven't had a situation that required their use.

Nor will there likely be such as situation. A situation where you have to fly low but can rise to 600ft for a drop??? Would most likely be done with a stand-off missile with appropriate warhead munitions, if there were such a need.

 

JDAM, Paveway, JSOW and other guided weapons are always preferred, and as we haven't had a conflict where low level tactics were required, it goes without saying that low level specific weapons have not been used either.

Except JP-233s in Desert Storm which were not delivered CCIP.:)

Edited September 3, 2012 by marcos