The AH-64 Apache Thread

[AlphaOneSix]

Hello, I read that US stopped production of Longbow Hellfire missiles in 2005? Could somebody confirm? If yes could anybody gave the reason? And for what purposes they use radars on AH-64's although they didn't use radar guided missiles?

 

These have already been answered well enough I suppose. I will just add that the U.S. decided that the weight savings from removing the radar was a better choice than having the terrain mapping features. Also keep in mind that all of the UK Apaches had the radar, while a little less than half (I think) of the U.S. AH-64Ds had the Longbow radar installed. Maybe the weight issue wasn't a problem for the British Apaches due to their different engines, or maybe because the British area of operation was relatively low altitude compared to where most U.S. Apaches were operating. Or maybe both.

[Seaeagle]

Not a subject matter expert here and happy to be corrected by people with more intimate systems knowledge. But AFAIK the longbow radar is used for both terrain mapping and target acquisition. It's yet another tool in the already pretty impressive toolbox available to Apache crews.

 

I don't think there are many radar guided AGMs around. The problem is that, by definition, there will be lots of reflecting surface all around the target. Guiding a weapon by radar would require a whole lot of signal processing. Painting the target with a laser spot or guiding the missile by optical/infrared means is a lot easier to accomplish.

 

No expert on this either, but there is(as I am sure you know) also a radar guided version of the Hellfire missile. While I am sure you are right about the above, the radar guided version has its advantages as well. It is less affected by visual interferences such as smoke, dust clouds or fog and its "fire & forget" allowing multiple targets to be attacked in quick succession. The latter I believe was the rationale behind fitting the Longbow radar in the first place - i.e. for a "cold war" scenario with the prospect of having to deal with large formations of advancing armour. This in turn could also be a reason why the trend seems to go towards removing the radar - i.e. for "low intensity" environments(such as counter-insurgency operations) the weight saving may be deemed preferable over a feature for which there is less need or where it can't really be used(e.g. in urban environments). IIRC in Afghanistan the radar was often removed because the weight of the radar negatively affected their ability to operate safely at high altitude in mountainous regions.

 

Still, finding targets by radar means crews can get sensors on target a lot faster and then decide on the best weapon and/or type of guidance. And I'm sure it helps with navigation, especially in bad weather and low visibility conditions.

 

Yes good point.

[Yurgon]

No expert on this either, but there is(as I am sure you know) also a radar guided version of the Hellfire missile.

 

Wow, TBH, I wasn't aware of that! Good points about that missile. :thumbup:

[shagrat]

No expert on this either, but there is(as I am sure you know) also a radar guided version of the Hellfire missile. While I am sure you are right about the above, the radar guided version has its advantages as well. It is less affected by visual interferences such as smoke, dust clouds or fog and its "fire & forget" allowing multiple targets to be attacked in quick succession. The latter I believe was the rationale behind fitting the Longbow radar in the first place - i.e. for a "cold war" scenario with the prospect of having to deal with large formations of advancing armour. This in turn could also be a reason why the trend seems to go towards removing the radar - i.e. for "low intensity" environments(such as counter-insurgency operations) the weight saving may be deemed preferable over a feature for which there is less need or where it can't really be used(e.g. in urban environments). IIRC in Afghanistan the radar was often removed because the weight of the radar negatively affected their ability to operate safely at high altitude in mountainous regions.

 

 

 

Yes good point.

 

The Longbow/Hellfire combination was designed to make strikes against large armored columns.

With a pair of Apaches, the idea was to have one pop-up with the radar.

Identify and store a situational picture, identify and prioritize targets.

The operator could then delegate targets between helicopters and "blindfire" with multiple helos in LOAL (LockOnAfterLaunch) mode. then pop up again to home in the Hellfires on the targets.

 

In essence it should be possible for a flight of two AH-64 with one having a Longbow, to kill 32 armored vehicles in one strike, without an enemy getting anything to spot than a Longbow radar on a mast popping over a ridge or treeline...

[Vitormouraa]

That moment when you see that you can't rep the posts here.. there are some great posts right there.. some interesting facts about the Apache.

 

Do you guys see the AH-64A as an option for DCS?

[shagrat]

That moment when you see that you can't rep the posts here.. there are some great posts right there.. some interesting facts about the Apache.

 

Do you guys see the AH-64A as an option for DCS?

I would love to. And if we get any Apache the AH-64A is the likely choice.

 

Yet after I saw the HOTAS controls, I doubt you can really fight and operate it effectively with "just" a clickable cockpit.

 

Have a look at this:

https://www.bugeyetech.com/ah-64

[Mike Busutil]

I have a friend that is an Apache instructor pilot currently instructing in the E version.

 

If we ever get an Apache for DCS he said he would join the forum here.

[Bushmanni]

Yet after I saw the HOTAS controls, I doubt you can really fight and operate it effectively with "just" a clickable cockpit.

 

Have a look at this:

https://www.bugeyetech.com/ah-64

 

That's from D model. The A model has more reasonable number of switches in its control setup.

 

[shagrat]

That's from D model. The A model has more reasonable number of switches in its control setup.

 

Yeah, plus the gunners xbox controller for the TADS, but agreed, at least the double collective and multihat cyclic is far less complex compared to the Longbow...

 

I would love a AH-64A. Complex controls or not.

It is an amazing helicopter...

 

If we could get the british Westland Apache, that would be fantastic.

[Vitormouraa]

I have a friend that is an Apache instructor pilot currently instructing in the E version.

 

If we ever get an Apache for DCS he said he would join the forum here.

 

Oh yeah.. that's really cool, Mike. ;)

 

I hope it happens somewhere in the future!

[Phantom88]

Apache will test a Laser Cannon this Summer

 

[Yurgon]

Apache will test a Laser Cannon this Summer

 

OMG, text-to-speech voice overs on top of public videos of Dutch Apaches performing (quite impressive!) airshow demos... please tell me there are more viable sources available. :music_whistling: :lol:

[Rangi]

OMG, text-to-speech voice overs on top of public videos of Dutch Apaches performing (quite impressive!) airshow demos... please tell me there are more viable sources available. :music_whistling: :lol:

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/socom-to-test-laser-aboard-ah-64-apache/

[Phantom88]

OMG, text-to-speech voice overs on top of public videos of Dutch Apaches performing (quite impressive!) airshow demos... please tell me there are more viable sources available. :music_whistling: :lol:

:megalol:Hehe.......Yea,Made me Chuckle as well :)

[Emu]

Sounds like a lot of weight to do the same job as the 30mm only not as well, unless what they're actually talking about is some kind of DIRCM.

[Phantom88]

I think the reason for trying Laser is more precision on target with less chance of collateral damage.

[Yurgon]

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/socom-to-test-laser-aboard-ah-64-apache/

 

Interesting, thanks! :thumbup:

[BitMaster]

Honestly, where are all those HUGE & HEAVY coils and capacitors it needs to store and amplify ?

 

I think this is a 1st of April hoax.

 

Look at the 747 that has one, how big and and .... cmon...a small heli ?

 

*ok, read that link, still, too far in future, pre-alpha status and it will likely stay there for a while imho

Edited May 4, 2017 by BitMaster

[shagrat]

The challenge is to a) generate a lot of energy in a short time, b) to focus it on a very tight spot.

Advancements in one or both of these in ways of weight, size and complexity/ruggedness etc. will make it more feasible.

I wouldn't easily dismiss it.

 

One application already possible, yet violating the Geneva convention, is to use relatively small and portable lasers to blind enemy fighters. Which effectively take them out of the fight.

 

Again, this is banned by the Geneva Convention and for good reason.

[NRG-Vampire]

I don't believe DCS has any Apache sims but if anyone has any questions about helicopter aviation in general I'd be glad to answer them the best I can.

 

thanks, so i have a question to You or to AlphaOneSix

 

what color of formation lights use the AH-64 and the AH-1W IRL ? the regular aviation/cyan blue ?

 

how wide is the projection angle of the spotlight of the Apache (and of the Cobra) and its azimuth/elevation rotation limits ?

 

Thank You

[AlphaOneSix]

thanks, so i have a question to You or to AlphaOneSix

 

what color of formation lights use the AH-64 and the AH-1W IRL ? the regular aviation/cyan blue ?

 

how wide is the projection angle of the spotlight of the Apache (and of the Cobra) and its azimuth/elevation rotation limits ?

 

Thank You

 

Sorry for the delay in responding. I'll start by saying I don't know the answers as far as the CObra goes.

 

For the AH-64:

 

The formation lights are green. We called them "slime lights".

 

The spotlight on the Apache can rotate 360 degrees in azimuth and I'm not sure about elevation but it can go from pointing straight down to a little bit above level. So effectively no limits other than the airframe being in the way.

[sir_quacksalot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headhunter88 View Post

Are you sure there is no problem with FFAR? couple years ago i heard about problem with fleet AH-64 in Afghanistan which had issue with rockets installed on letf inboard station (just like TFN in 1991). Blast from couple rockets fired at once very ofted demaged tail rotors in apache's so command decided to resign from instalation of FFAR in this place. Do you confirm ?

 

As far as the Rockets go, I would have to go dig, but some of the earlier mods of the Mk66 and I believe the Mk40 rocket motors did have some issues with ejecting debris that could cause damage to aircraft. I know for a fact, (because I dealt with it in the OH-58D) that many of the older models of the AGM-114 (the C and I think F models) were known for the potential for ejecting debris that could and did cause damage to stabs and tail rotors. For this reason, we would mount FOD deflectors onto the back of the rails of the Hellfire Launchers.

 

I never heard anything about that. Up until around the time of Desert Storm, Hellfires were always loaded on inboard stations, with rockets on the outboard stations. Shortly after that, my unit would always mount rockets inboard instead, claiming that it improved accuracy. I don't know whether it did or not, honestly. The horizontal stabilator on the AH-64 has a rubber matting glued to it (it's black unless it's been painted over, and visible in pretty much any picture of an AH-64 horizontal stabilator. That was put there specifically to prevent damage from rocket motor exhaust from both Hellfires and rockets, but I personally never saw any damage done to anything back there from rockets or Hellfires, neither on the tail rotor or the stabilator.

 

As for the rockets being more accurate on the inboard rails? That is true. However, the reason we are not authorized to put those on the inboard rails now is due to the potential for engine flameout from ingesting the motor exhaust during ripple firing. So we only put them on the outboard rails. It's not a huge potential but it's there so they don't let us do it.

 

As for how I know? I fly them.

 

Oh and the gun tracks head movement. It's tracking the movement of the helmet through a bunch of sensors mounted in the cockpit, not the monocle or the eye. The monocle is strictly a display for imagery and symbology.

[Heli]

 

в 2017 -

PM (Program Management) funded - финансирование программы создания снарядов для пушки M230 с опциональным воздушным подрывом утверждено, работы начаты

 

30mm LW Airburst funded!

[Heli]

 

 

with LAIRCM

 

[wilky510]

with LAIRCM

Any idea on how many AH-64E's have this, Sound (or Heli)? Just the ones based in the Iraq/Syrian region?
Edited October 8, 2017 by wilky510