Reworked Cockpit Views with proper Neck

[eFirehawk]

I've been using this mod for the A-10C for some time now and now I just can't play the game without it anymore! It's THAT good!! Thank you so much PeterP! :joystick:

 

Just a question though, previously in v1.2.3 it was working perfectly in the F-15C cockpit as well, now all aircraft, except for the A-10C have a very weird HUD zoom which doesn't allow me to do anything really, and the zoom also looks strange from some angles in the cockpit, specially when looking at 4 or 8 o'clock. Does anyone know how I can get the other cockpit views to work as well as it does in the A-10C, working in v1.2.4?

 

[Col.Flanders]

I've also been using this for quite some time but I'm having problems now in 1.2.4 with the A-10. The roll axis is inverted. If I roll my head left, it rolls right and vice versa. Everything else seems normal.

[Tholozor]

I've noticed the inverted head roll as well.

[E61-v1T1]

Yes, this Mod is not working properly in 1.2.4.

 

I have noticed a problem texture in the new Su-25 Cockpit too

 

S!

[sotosev]

I really can't fly without that mod PeterP now that I am used to it. Although it seems that this mod do nothing with ver. 1.2.4. View now is default ED view.

[JazzMan]

I really can't fly without that mod PeterP now that I am used to it. Although it seems that this mod do nothing with ver. 1.2.4. View now is default ED view.

 

the point is, they change some parameter to other lua and make all lua new in the View-folder

[PeterP]

OK Guys,

I was finally able to apply the newest patch today (after two days of awful low download connection...) and please give me some time (probably two days) to acclimatise with the newest changes and to rework this mod for 1.2.4 for all available modules and 6DOF cockpits.

Edited May 2, 2013 by PeterP

[BIGNEWY]

OK Guys,

I was finally able to apply the newest patch today (after two days of awful low download connection...) and please give me some time (probably two days) to acclimatise with the newest changes and to rework this mod for 1.2.4 for all available modules and 6DOF cockpits.

 

As always PeterP you are a star :thumbup:

[Nopileus]

As always PeterP you are a Rockstar :thumbup:

 

Fixed that for you

[eFirehawk]

As always PeterP you are a star :thumbup:

 

I couldn't agree more :thumbup: Thanks PeterP!

[PeterP]

Thanks !

... But please stop this rockstar bla-bla... I did nothing up to now.

...I'm just a simple man and I do what I can ;) :

 

 

Thanks to Klaus Nomi (RIP) for finding the right words !

...ah, *sigh* ...the 80'ies...

Edited May 2, 2013 by PeterP

[joker62]

Peter, thank you very much. I'll wait this mod for 1.2.4.

antonio.

[71st_Mastiff]

I've been using this mod for the A-10C for some time now and now I just can't play the game without it anymore! It's THAT good!! Thank you so much PeterP! :joystick:

 

Just a question though, previously in v1.2.3 it was working perfectly in the F-15C cockpit as well, now all aircraft, except for the A-10C have a very weird HUD zoom which doesn't allow me to do anything really, and the zoom also looks strange from some angles in the cockpit, specially when looking at 4 or 8 o'clock. Does anyone know how I can get the other cockpit views to work as well as it does in the A-10C, working in v1.2.4?

 

 

yep i can confirm this the 6dof proper neck alignment causing some weird issues with the magnifications to the HUD. :joystick:

[71st_Mastiff]

Looks like they restructured the lua file. I was able to adjust my FOV

[zaelu]

Yes... the structure of files is better now. We can make some sense of them :). ED is moving this into a good direction.

 

I tested only for A10A and C and F15C for now and I discovered the followings:

 

For my 1920x1080 single monitor resolution

 

1. The default FOV is way too big (and a bit of a cheat :D ) in most of the aircrafts. That's why when you tilt your head up (backwards) the whole cockpit goes WARP Speed 10. So I decided that for A10s a maximum FOV of 90 is more than enough for me. No distortions now. I have set this FOV in Server.lua and also in SnapViews.lua from user folder in paragraph 13 of each of the planes. For F15C I choose FOV 100.

2. The head/eyes are too far from headrest. That's why it was needed so much FOV in the first place I think. I moved the head in SnapViews.lua to 0.20000 on TransX from 0.360000.

3. These work best with the eypoint moved as per PeterP mod to 0.16 on first coordinates. However the second 0.10 coordinates I found them unnecessary. They mean to simulate the actual neck but I decided to go for no neck as this besides the natural effect when turning the head horizontally it has a bad effect when tilting up. It makes you feel you are raising in your feet... which is not normal but I guess nothing can be done here. So I just dropped the neck and move the line of sight upwards to compensate for those 10cm lost in hight. For now seems more OK like this but I will search further.

4. To have the line of sight not centered only on the hud but to see something of the dashboard I lowered the angle (vAngle in SnapViews.lua) to -20.000000

 

Also after doing these I felt like I needed to play a bit with the response settings for TIR as it became a bit "choppy" so I raised X axis from 0.6 to 0.9 and Y axis from 0.3 to 0.5. These are in the last section of the View.lua file.

 

 

edit

 

Another thing is that you can't move the head back and forth without modifying the FOV, else the HUD will not be completely visible. It would be OK if some way to resize the HUD would exist.

Edited May 2, 2013 by zaelu

[Col.Flanders]

OK Guys,

I was finally able to apply the newest patch today (after two days of awful low download connection...) and please give me some time (probably two days) to acclimatise with the newest changes and to rework this mod for 1.2.4 for all available modules and 6DOF cockpits.

 

Thanks, Peter. Much appreciated. :)

[PeterP]

Just a little 'update' of the WIP for 1.2.4:

 

I analysed the new file structure and I have to say that ED is walking in the right direction to de-clutter things and making adjustments easier by putting the relevant functions in only one file (...\view\server.lua).

 

(Well , I'm still struggling to understand the function of the QA-Team of ED by putting out 'patches' that are still clearly in a beta state and break always fundamental things and turn the end-consumer into the position of a guinea pig without a single warning... not able to damage Airborne targets in 1.2.4 with DCS-FC is just one of the worst examples... Having a great workload isn't the suitable excuse for things like this (!) , but now I'm digressing from this topic.

(sorry-please don't be so offended - I'm just try to put things in clear words (Heck - I'm German!;)) And I think it has to be said.)

 

I'm now working out global settings that are plausible for all 6DOF cockpits (using the LUA "local" command ) so people that want to alter my changes (once the reworked 1.2.4 mod is up) they only have to change the relevant parameters only once instead of doing it for all cockpits separated.

 

This will also vastly help me to maintain this mod for future patches and lower my/your workload until ED gives us sliders/checkboxes in the options-menu (instead of the inconvenient snap-views saving option that you have to un-look first) ... Yes !, I'm still dreaming of a better world ;).

>>> Cockpit View Angle settings in the GUI

 

This will take some time and needs a lot of testing.

 

But I can't take away the need of individual edits made by yourself as you need different settings on a single screen than on a multimonitor setup that covers a wider FOV in front of you.

 

Further:

I want and also write a clearly understandable pictured manual/guide that explains the available functions and the relation of your actual view-point in front of your monitor/projection with your Virtual one and the FOV (aka Zoom) - as there I see so many posts where people struggling to understand the fundamentals

, what leads into allot of confusion...

(e.g.: "Why is everything so stretched at the sides ?!")

 

...my PM/email-folder is also full of questions about it.

And I think that writing a "DCS View System Guide" will help allot of people to understand the limitations and how to counteract them without try'n'error.

 

...whatever...

 

So please understand that this will take some time,

but once I finished it things will become much clearer for you and I will have a reference to answer question by a single 'link' instead of starting always by zero even it has been answered many times before in a similar way .

Edited May 3, 2013 by PeterP

[MTFDarkEagle]

Excellent stuff Peter ;)

Take your time mate.

[Taproot]

Excellent stuff Peter ;)

Take your time mate.

 

QFT

[PeterP]

Excellent stuff Peter ;)

Take your time mate.

 

PS - In the meantime :

 

Follow the info that zaelu and Kuky have posted and concentrate only at the ...Config/View/Server.lua .

 

When you compare the edits of my files in post #1 and the parameters in the restructured 1.2.4 ...Config/View/Server.lua you will (hopefully) quickly understand what to do to restore the old functionality of this modification.

 

 

Always make a Backup before you change your files and use a proper editor ( Notepad++ - its Free! and the installation is ready in less than a minute!)- so noone gets Hurt :) !

Edited May 3, 2013 by PeterP

[zaelu]

After further playing back and forth with the settings I reinstalled the neck via the second coordinates from eyepoint line. It is sufficient to lower the head via y_trans parameter from SnapViews.lua for paragraph 13 of each plane to a suitable position. The effect of raising up in ones feet when tilting up the head persist but is almost the same if "the neck" is removed. So I decided to keep it like PeterP with 0.1.

 

From What I see in the default parameters some planes do have eye point modified from dead center (0.0,0.0,0.0) but if the neck sometimes is placed at 0.1 the eye point is way shoter than 0.10 most of the time... not even close to 0.16.

 

...until ED gives us sliders/checkboxes in the options-menu (instead of the inconvenient snap-views saving option that you have to un-look first) ... Yes !, I'm still dreaming of a better world .

 

You are not alone in that dream peterP :)

[PeterP]

 

From What I see in the default parameters some planes do have eye point modified from dead center (0.0,0.0,0.0) but if the neck sometimes is placed at 0.1 the eye point is way shoter than 0.10 most of the time... not even close to 0.16.

 

 

Well, I think ED uses much shorter distances to not confuse the (new)users so much because the Hud will be quickly hidden when you move your head around - and it's a left over of FC2 , that hadn't 6DOF - but its clearly wrong and not what is present in the real world - and when you once have seen a working real HUD you quickly understand . But this doesn't explain at all why they are so different for each cockpit...

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...7&postcount=17

 

Read my personal notes on this matter here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1588371#post1588371

 

 

 

 

Further... :

 

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1739240#post1739240

 

Well, the HUD on its own is a whole different matter and changing the size afterwards is a very complicated thing once it is installed and 'calibrated' in the virtual cockpit....

Read on and follow the links to get a Idea:

Demo for a HUD that works in stereoscopic 3D

So things that first seems very simple can get very complicated in the end - just because you tried to 'cheat' and make simplification in the design-phase...

 

I personally still believe that ED choose to make the HUD a little bigger than in real - just to keep readability on low-res Screens. But that is something that now really starts to make huge problems once you want to keep things as real as it can . This would probably a very different case if they choose a different eye/neck position from the start.

>>>See all the "how to resize the HUD ?!" threads.

(just use the search function - can't list them all - they just pooping out like mushrooms in a misty morning...)

ED just better gave this function to the user instead twisting up the HUD size :

>>> Big HUD Font for A-10C (...sorry , I'm distracting again)

 

 

About the 16cm...

Well its maybe not the right value in all occasions as your neck is not a static parameter and can vastly change within seconds...

We have disused this already (and probably do it again... ):

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1656534&postcount=62

 

But as long the neck is only a static thing in DCS we have to set it to something like the average of possible distances...

 

-That's the main reason why I want to "rewrite" the server.lua to set global values and make it easy to change them all at once by editing a single value - so noone is forced to use what feels right for me.

I have to admit:

...maybe I'm also just barking to the wrong moon...and Naturalpoint-TrackIR is the culprit because their interface doesn't uses relative translations of your eye-position...

 

But writing to Naturalpoint about software-design failures is like writing to Santa and asking for peace on earth ... I tried both - just watch the next news in the TV to see what I got instead.

Edited June 5, 2013 by PeterP

[PeterP]

Attached you will find the first beta of

Reworked Cockpit Views with proper Neck plus 6DOF for Mig-29 , Su-33 and Su-25T for DCS World 1.2.4 BETA

 

All cockpit views (for all flyable modules/planes) have the 10cm up and 16cm forward movement of the eye-point to simulate a neck.

 

 

Some of the "limits_6DOF" values still need some tweaking - but its fairly well done (I hope) ,

I just didn't spend a lot of time if I'm able to move the virtual head inside the panels or through the closed canopy.

 

(...wife started to be a little upset because I spend the Friday evening reloading DCS again and again... - and it just makes no sense to anyone outside watching me quitting the simulation just 3 seconds after starting - retyping something in the editor - and starting over again... ;) - so I quitted after I thought that I roughly nailed it down - next editing time is Sunday...)

 

As I said before :

It's still a beta and maybe needs still some tweaking.

And when you followed this tread and/or only the last 10 posts you will know why.

 

So if you don't like surprises - just wait until I have nailed everything down and and it isn't 'beta' any more.

...and I added a proper readme and more detailed info.

 

 

If you try , you should really have a look how to customize your own default cockpit view when using this files.

 

Here is a "HowTo" >>> http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Snap_views

I already enabled the snap-views saving in the attached default View.lua - so no need for you to do the edit - just posting the link for completeness.

 

 

and here is a list of the needed key-commands.

(Yes - I know how hard it is for some of you to look it up your own in the options ...;))

Disable your Track-IR/Head-tracker while doing it !

 

 

 

"Num/ - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Back

"Num5 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Center

"Num2 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Down

"Num* - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Forward

"Num8 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Up

"Num/" FOV- aka Zoom-in

"Num*" FOV+ aka Zoom-out

"NumEnter" Default FOV aka Zoom

 

 

"RCtrl+Num0" Save current Cockpit view as default for this vehicle

 

 

 

How to install:

 

And once again - safety first :

 

Always make a Backup before you change your files and use a proper editor ( Notepad++ - its Free! and the installation is ready in less than a minute!)- so no one gets Hurt !

 

There are two folders

Both are named in a way that it is self-explanatory what to do with the contend :

 

Step1

 

"copy contend in DCS World installation" - do what the folder says says/is named

 

Example path: H:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\.

Step2 (optional)

"copy contend in Saved Games to use a preset of snapviews" - do what the folder says/is named

Example path: C:\Users\>YOUR USERNAME<\Saved Games\DCS\

 

 

That's it.

 

PS: Also don't forget to remap the TrackIR Z axis for the Non-6DOF cockpits - so you don't change the FOV when you move your head forward. >>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=105515

 

----

 

Info how to change min/max FOV aka Zoom and Neck dimension and more :

 

Open

...\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Config\View\Server.lua

 

And edit new added lines starting at line #6 - see the annotations for explanation.

--/////////////////////////////////////// Global View parameters - Start - PeterP ////////////////////////////////

local EyePoint_with_proper_Neck = {0.16, 0.1, 0.0} -- {front/back , up/down , left/right} <-in meters

local GlobalCameraViewAngleLimits = {20,160} -- {min FOV in °, max FOV in °} <- aka Zoom

local GlobalCameraAngleRestriction = {false,130.00,0.90} -- set to 'true' if you want restricted head turning with stop and activating the 'GlobalCameraAngleLimits'

local GlobalCameraAngleLimits = {150.000000,-70.000000,90.000000} -- {Max turning to back in , max locking down , max looking up} <- in ° , Keep in mind that this depends on your actual FOV - so you have to readjust it to your FOV setting

 

--/////////////////////////////////////// Global View parameters - End - PeterP //////////////////////////////////

And read post #1 for better understanding what this mod does when you unsure if you want to do the download , or before posting any questions.

Use the attached All planes-modules test.miz for convenient testing.You can start in each aircraft via the briefing menu without having to reload the mission , as they are set-up as client.

 

How to report any annoyances and issues:

 

 

 

 

Please Please tell me which cockpits need a closer look. and which axis.

 

For simplification:

 

Copy and paste following table and mark red what needs a rework and a line or tow of info .

 

Example:

A10C

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:I'm able to go with my head through the canopy - needs shorter limits.

Another example:

P51D

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:I'm not able to read the fuel gauges properly and My Eyes are going through the head rest when looking at my six.

This would vastly help me save a lot of time when I will re-edit the cockpit limits.

 

Thanks!

 

Here is the list that you can copy'n'paste:

 

A-10A

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

A-10C

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

F-15C

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

P-51D

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

MIG-29A and S

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

Su-25

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

Su-25T

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

Su-27

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

Su-33

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

Ka-50

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

UH-1H

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info:

 

PS:

Some of you may ask : "Why he need to re-edit this parameters?!"

 

Then I will answer: " That's because when I add these (e.g.) 16cm to the pivot point DCS don't know about it and your eyes will be sitting 16 cm more in front and also to the sides when you look around - so it can very quickly happen that you have your eyes sticking trough a panel or through the canopy." - That's it.

 

but keep in mind that I have to open the view-limits a little regarding to what is possible in RL , as the folks that create their own quick-snap views for different panels have still the possibility to do so.

 

So it's always a compromise between a strapped-in position and usability for low-res screens (e.g. single 1920x1080).

 

I'm also a user that tends to use smaller limits that have no compromise and reflects your movement of a strapped-in pilot. as I use a T-shape setup and have the available resolution to not have to zoom in at all while having everything readable.

 

... There is a high possibility that I will add a pre-set that has no compromises at a later stage - but first I try to please everyone.

 

...and please read this post before reporting:

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1746236&postcount=126

 

 

.

Edited May 11, 2013 by PeterP

[RglsPhoto]

Thanks PeterP,

I can't find a folder named "View" in path "..\saved games\DCS\Config",is it created by yourself or by ED devs?I just want to make sure I will not misplace the SnapViews.lua

[PeterP]

Thanks PeterP,

I can't find a folder named "View" in path "..\saved games\DCS\Config",is it created by yourself or by ED devs?I just want to make sure I will not misplace the SnapViews.lua

 

Sorry that I'm giving such annoying answers tonight ... :)

- but please compare your question with my instruction :

 

Step1

 

Copy

Server.lua and View.lua

into

The "View" folder in the installation path of dcs world 1.2.4

Example: H:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Config\View

Step2

 

And than copy the 'Config' folder that contains the SnapViews.lua into your 'saved games' -DCS path

 

Example path: C:\Users\>YOUR USERNAME<\Saved Games\DCS\

 

 

Now you see that I never asked you to watch out for a 'view' folder in your user/saved games path.

 

And never forget : Don't drink and drive! :D

Edited May 4, 2013 by PeterP