Mast bumping

[KosPilot]

I thought about it again and ask me the question how we can "see" if we have low-g load on the chopper. IRL one would feel low-g and can stop that maneuver and/or do control inputs to "load" the rotor system again. So the only method in-game would be to prevent low-g on all cost?

 

The torque gauge will indicate your rotor load.

In a level balanced turn your bank angle is a direct indication of G.

[Pyroflash]

Mate, I think just:

 

1. flying it; and

2. surviving in a warzone (full of Migs, SU25s, KA50s, SAMs, AAA, etc)

 

should be more than enough to challenge you. :P

 

If I wanted an FC3 level helicopter, I would buy an FC3 level helicopter. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with an FC3 level helicopter, and you are welcome to fly one if such a product ever comes out. However, this is not being advertised as such, and I expect nothing less than full fidelity from a DCS level product.

 

That means I expect to find all the little quirks, detractors, and limits right where they would be in the real world version. If that means that under certain real life circumstances, the main rotor happens to fall off, then so be it. I expect this to be modeled in-game as well. IMO, these are things that will not only separate this module from the rest, but put it ahead of the pack in terms of fidelity.

 

After all, you don't see many people complaining that under certain circumstances, the Ka-50 will chop its own rotors in half. Instead, people see this as a challenge to overcome, and a limitation to keep in mind while flying it.

[AlphaOneSix]

The torque gauge will indicate your rotor load.

 

The torque gauge indicates twisting force on the main rotor drive shaft, and has nothing to do with the loading of the rotor.

[Hueyman]

Yeah, I second that, absolutely nothing to do with G-loading...

 

Some new designs such the BK-117 got some devive in the rotorhead which " sense " the global stress and tension and the whole rotor hub/blade grips in torsion and flexion, showing it with a needle on a guauge. It's not recommended to overcome the red limit, it can reduce titan hub life dramatically

[Darkwolf]

For those like me who don't know everything in aviation and are wondering what we are talking about ....

 

 

 

Source :

 

https://sites.google.com/site/mthompsondc/star-telegramseries

 

 

 

 

PS. I wonder how many player will try to suicide themselve with mast-bumping when the game is released :)

[genbrien]

Don't have to try... It'll come naturally :megalol:

[drummer]

what is mast bumping? video explaination

 

I always wondered about the details of mast bumping but found a vintage video clip that explains it in grest detail. You can skim through it or wallow in all the detail but hopefully find it interesting either way?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U85LHAVD95w

[EagleEye]

I always wondered about the details of mast bumping but found a vintage video clip that explains it in grest detail. You can skim through it or wallow in all the detail but hopefully find it interesting either way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U85LHAVD95w

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1675086&postcount=12;)

[Demongornot]

Its sure it was modeled !

Look at : Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Sounds\Effects\Aircrafts\Uh-1H

You will find MastBumping.wav PreMastBumping1.wav and PreMastBumping2.wav :)

[doright]

Ok. This should do it. Digging up some older stuff to bury "It's here", but I refuse to bump the price debate.

[VincentLaw]

but I refuse to bump the price debate.

 

You can't bump that one, it got locked.

 

Also, I am surprised there isn't a forum rule against massed bumping, but it's a noble effort anyway.

Edited April 18, 2013 by VincentLaw

[doright]

You can't bump that one, it got locked.

 

Also, I am surprised there isn't a forum rule against massed bumping, but it's a noble effort anyway.

 

But this thread was "Mast bumping" not massed bumping.

Ya I was wondering about getting myself banned, but it did seem in the best interest of the tenuous last strand of sanity grasped to by me and others to bury it 6 threads under.

[Chris CDN]

"Bumping" an old thread to revive an aerodynamics terminology issue that's driving me up the wall.

 

Both the UH-1H product page and, more recently, a post from one of the testers has used the terms Vortex Ring State and Settling With Power interchangeably.

 

This is the aerodynamic equivalent of misusing you're / your.

 

Technically settling with power isn't actually an aerodynamic issue, so let me explain. Think of driving along a highway in your 1987 Ford Tempo. You come to a very tall, very steep hill. You want to drive up the hill at 100 mp/h, but the ol' Tempo only has enough power to move you up the hill at 87 mp/h. This is basically what settling with power is. You're still in control of the machine, but due to the limitations on the machine, you can't get enough performance out of it to arrest a rate of descent at a given airspeed, temperature, etc.

 

Same example in a descending helicopter from 100 feet at 20 knots and a 500 ft/m descent rate and 80% power applied.

 

In this situation, you decide to pull 100% of your available power. You still have a descent rate of 100 ft/m. You are not in VRS, but you are settling with power. Unless the wind changes, or you use forward cyclic to gain airspeed (but lose altitude), you will contact the ground with a descent rate of 100 fpm. Not ideal. In this situation, you probably wouldn't get into VRS because of how low the rate of descent is.

 

Vortex Ring State

 

Okay. Settling with power can absolutely lead to Vortex Ring State.

 

Vortex Ring State occurs when three conditions are met. High rate of descent, low airspeed and powered flight. (ie. You can't get into VRS in an autorotation.)

 

The quick and dirty version is that you're moving down too quickly and at such a low airspeed that you're descending into all that nasty air the blades have been beating up trying to keep you aloft.

 

Here's the long version. "If the helicopter pilot chooses a flight path, airspeed and a rate of descent that coincides with the aircraft’s downwash, the helicopter could enter a condition known as the Vortex Ring state. The stall condition formed by the rate of descent flow in opposition to the induced flow, combines with the tip vortices present in all regimes of flight to produce a turbulent rotational flow on the blades and an unsteady spanwise shifting of that flow. This condition induces a very rapid rate of descent, vibrations, excessive flapping and a reduction in cyclic authority that could result in an accident."

 

The recovery for VRS is similar to the recovery from settling with power, although some of the symptoms for two conditions are different.

 

But Chris, you've explained this so succinctly, I don't know how anyone could confuse the two?

 

I know Timmy. I know.

 

Tl;dr Don't use ****ing wikipedia for science. SWP is when the power required is more than the power available. VRS is falling into unstable air.

 

Edited April 28, 2013 by Chris CDN

[TimeKilla]

Good info is this in the game?

[Suchacz]

Good info is this in the game?

Game? What game? :lol:

 

Can we still call it a game?

[TimeKilla]

Of course. :megalol:

[BIGNEWY]

did some just say game . . . . .

 

........... its a Simulator

 

:)

 

P.S Mast bumping will be a challenge if simulated

[Suchacz]

It was stated somewhere, that mast bumping will be there. Sorry, I'm too lazy to search for a quote...

Edited April 28, 2013 by Suchacz

[Chris CDN]

did some just say game . . . . .

 

........... its a Simulator

 

:)

 

 

You guys can derail a thread faster than anyone I've ever seen.

 

Does anybody even read the forums before they post on them anymore?

[TimeKilla]

Ok ok am sorry I meant Simulator :thumbup:

[KLR Rico]

"Bumping" an old thread to revive an aerodynamics terminology issue that's driving me up the wall.

 

Have you contacted the FAA with your revelations? They use the terms interchangeably in the helicopter flying handbook. :smartass:

 

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/helicopter_flying_handbook/

[AlphaOneSix]

Have you contacted the FAA with your revelations? They use the terms interchangeably in the helicopter flying handbook. :smartass:

 

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/helicopter_flying_handbook/

 

The U.S. Army uses the terms interchangeably as well. I'm not saying they are right, but that is absolutely how it's taught in the U.S. for whatever reason. So perhaps here comes the argument that all Americans are stupid, but anyone who learned to fly helicopters in the U.S. learned that "settling with power" and "vortex ring state" are the same thing.

 

For the record, I am fine with differentiating the two...that is...one is a power problem and one is an aerodynamic problem.

 

In fact, ChrisCDN, I'd suggest that you edit the Wikipedia page, it's not like it's written in stone. If you change the definition on Wikipedia, and it gets reverted...well then I'd say you have a good grievance.

[HuggyBear]

Pfft, only Instructor Pilots use words like 'Vortex Ring' and 'Settling with Power' anyway, because they're worried people will discover they can't fly! :P

 

Real Pilots speak with their hands (without spilling their drinks).

 

- Bear

[Zentaos]

the power problem is created by the aerodynamic problem. VRS causes settling with power. hence, they are used interchangeably.

[AlphaOneSix]

My observation is that the difference between the two is that you could, in theory, get out of settling with power if you just had more power. In vortex ring state, more power just makes it worse.