So SimCity. Who's getting it

[TurboHog]

WOW! That average user rating on metacritic is pathethic compared to the average critic's score.

 

When reading some of the negative reviews I can see that the difference between the current rating of 1.6/10 (!) and a good score that is more in line with the critic's score is based on JUST two things:

 

1) Always online DRM and all its consequences, including: No local saves, queuing to enter server, crashing servers etc.

2) Less important but always mentioned: Small maps.

 

Some people also complain about the simplicity. Addition of an underground construction (pipelines, metro) is missing...

 

But if they remove these two things the game would definitly receive a good user score.

 

Soooo Close!

 

I myself will buy simcity when these two things are fixed...

[EtherealN]

Creating 4 cities in 2 hours is not a city builder game as i know it should be based upon what we have always concieved as a city builder.

 

Here's something very important: you keep thinking about a "city-builder" as a Sim City 4 remake. If what you want is Sim City 4 - play that.

 

Can you fill 4 plots in 2 hours?

Yes.

Should you?

No.

 

I currently have two cities in a shared game that are both having MAJOR problems because I did precisely that. I rushed to fill them because I played it as if it was Sim City 4. It isn't. It's a Sim City game but with a lot of intricate economy layered on top, both regarding resources but also regarding how you manage the people. Building quick without adequate planning for technological transitions means you'll get stuck.

 

So this is essentially you attacking the ability of "doing it wrong".

 

The other launch-related issues with the client-server architecture is a separate matter though, but I'm not surprised. I think it is effective from an anti-piracy view, but I also think it bited EA in other ways - for example through Amazon halting sale of their digital distribution of the game due to the complaints.

 

Screw EA and all their games - they are completely removing power from the consumer and creating overly simplistic crap.

 

There is nothing "simplistic" about this game. If you play it like Sim City 4, yes, the city will be "done" very very fast. But that's like playing Starcraft and thinking you've done it all through being able to kill the AI after it's meaningless 1-base rushes... :P

 

1) Always online DRM and all its consequences, including: No local saves, queuing to enter server, crashing servers etc.

 

One thing I'll add here that really do annoy me, when comparing with the Diablo 3 launch: With Diablo 3, we were connecting to singular regional servers which, from what I understand, where a Beowulfed affair. Meant very good scalability. But with the system EA has instituted there is a lot of partitioned servers - for example, if Western Europe 2 is full and everything else is runing nice... well, my cities are on that server, so I either have to start new ones or just not play.

 

That is not cool. Not cool at all.

[winz]

I could not agree with your latter statement more. For a while it seemed like EA could get away with anything, monolith of games publishing that it is. This time, however, it looks like it's really bitten them in the butts. People are pissed that the launch has been such a disaster thus far. Even more so than Diablo III, it seems!

Well, Ubisoft dropped u-play requirement after their realized it hurts them more then piracy. Diablo III had terrible launch, but much better then simcity, the game was playable no-probs on day 2.

 

Here's something very important: you keep thinking about a "city-builder" as a Sim City 4 remake. If what you want is Sim City 4 - play that.

I have the feeling this will be Civ 4 vs Civ 5 all over again. For me it looks like (judging from gameplay vids) SC 5 is shallower in some areas, but much much deeper in other.

It looks like a great game to me, which makes the disastrous launch even sadder.

[EtherealN]

I have the feeling this will be Civ 4 vs Civ 5 all over again. For me it looks like (judging from gameplay vids) SC 5 is shallower in some areas, but much much deeper in other.

It looks like a great game to me, which makes the disastrous launch even sadder.

 

Pretty much correct, IMO.

 

Can look at it like this: it reduced the scale of the cities to compensate for "complicating" gameplay with Settlers-style economic influences.

[Conure]

Here's something very important: you keep thinking about a "city-builder" as a Sim City 4 remake. If what you want is Sim City 4 - play that.

 

Can you fill 4 plots in 2 hours?

Yes.

Should you?

No.

 

I currently have two cities in a shared game that are both having MAJOR problems because I did precisely that. I rushed to fill them because I played it as if it was Sim City 4. It isn't. It's a Sim City game but with a lot of intricate economy layered on top, both regarding resources but also regarding how you manage the people. Building quick without adequate planning for technological transitions means you'll get stuck.

 

So this is essentially you attacking the ability of "doing it wrong".

 

The other launch-related issues with the client-server architecture is a separate matter though, but I'm not surprised. I think it is effective from an anti-piracy view, but I also think it bited EA in other ways - for example through Amazon halting sale of their digital distribution of the game due to the complaints.

 

 

 

There is nothing "simplistic" about this game. If you play it like Sim City 4, yes, the city will be "done" very very fast. But that's like playing Starcraft and thinking you've done it all through being able to kill the AI after it's meaningless 1-base rushes... :P

 

 

 

One thing I'll add here that really do annoy me, when comparing with the Diablo 3 launch: With Diablo 3, we were connecting to singular regional servers which, from what I understand, where a Beowulfed affair. Meant very good scalability. But with the system EA has instituted there is a lot of partitioned servers - for example, if Western Europe 2 is full and everything else is runing nice... well, my cities are on that server, so I either have to start new ones or just not play.

 

That is not cool. Not cool at all.

 

Well if that's true it's a good thing - but if I wanted to do highly detailed small city building I'd play Anno. For me, SimCity was about huge metropolis' rather than smaller settlements - though I haven't played the games so I can't judge, I was going off the feedback online.

 

Still, the DRM is enough for it to have to be a firm no - I wish more people would veto this sort of behavior...Buying it just encourages EA to treat us like crap. If people stopped purchasing you'd quickly find this instrusive DRM disappearing.

[EtherealN]

Well if that's true it's a good thing - but if I wanted to do highly detailed small city building I'd play Anno. For me, SimCity was about huge metropolis' rather than smaller settlements - though I haven't played the games so I can't judge, I was going off the feedback online.

 

Yeah, it's definitely not a "metropolis-simulator", at least not with where it is right now.

 

I think it might very well be that in the end though through the whole region gameplay, but sadly this is an area where the current server issues render this hypothesis untestable since co-operative decisions can take half a day from where you did it in your city until when your friends (who are playing the same region at the same time) "see" it and get affected by it.

 

So in this aspect I'd have to get back after the server situation stabilizes. (Which, between DCS stuff and HotS being released next week... might be months away for me to test even if stabilization happens next week. :P ) This could be similar to the Diablo 3 thing where the gameplay turns "brilliant" once the server infrastructure is there (I do consider Diablo's SP/MP fluidity to be a fantastic hallmark of what can be done today, but of course this only works while the servers are healthy...).

 

Still, the DRM is enough for it to have to be a firm no - I wish more people would veto this sort of behavior...Buying it just encourages EA to treat us like crap. If people stopped purchasing you'd quickly find this instrusive DRM disappearing.

 

Sure, but there are aspects of this type of technology that I do really like though. Diablo 3 as an example there: the switch between "just me" and "I want to play with friends" becomes so fluid and natural when we have this kind of technology. What I guess I could agree on though is when we are barred even from making the counscious choice of refusing the MP aspects through something similar to starting Steam and Steam-games in "offline mode". But aside from the DRM half of the discussion, I am definitely prepared to accept some initial teething problems at launch in order to have games that get this kind of stuff integrated - I just wish they'd of course allow an "offline" switch for those cases when it's necessary; such as during launch.

Edited March 8, 2013 by EtherealN

[Kevlon]

well, I got a message in my email saying that I can now download SimCity. :p Even tough I am in the UK. I'm getting my hopes up that I will be able to play it today too..:p We will see :D

[Conure]

Yeah, it's definitely not a "metropolis-simulator", at least not with where it is right now.

 

I think it might very well be that in the end though through the whole region gameplay, but sadly this is an area where the current server issues render this hypothesis untestable since co-operative decisions can take half a day from where you did it in your city until when your friends (who are playing the same region at the same time) "see" it and get affected by it.

 

So in this aspect I'd have to get back after the server situation stabilizes. (Which, between DCS stuff and HotS being released next week... might be months away for me to test even if stabilization happens next week. :P ) This could be similar to the Diablo 3 thing where the gameplay turns "brilliant" once the server infrastructure is there (I do consider Diablo's SP/MP fluidity to be a fantastic hallmark of what can be done today, but of course this only works while the servers are healthy...).

 

 

 

Sure, but there are aspects of this type of technology that I do really like though. Diablo 3 as an example there: the switch between "just me" and "I want to play with friends" becomes so fluid and natural when we have this kind of technology. What I guess I could agree on though is when we are barred even from making the counscious choice of refusing the MP aspects through something similar to starting Steam and Steam-games in "offline mode". But aside from the DRM half of the discussion, I am definitely prepared to accept some initial teething problems at launch in order to have games that get this kind of stuff integrated - I just wish they'd of course allow an "offline" switch for those cases when it's necessary; such as during launch.

 

True - but the technology flourishes when it is released from the realm of DRM, indeed technology is typically better the more open and free it is. As an experienced Ubuntu user and advocate of the FSF and their principles I'd have to say that the free software I use is typically higher quality and more stable.

 

I think a good example of Diablo 3 done properly is Path of Exile - free to play, seamless online cooperation etc.

 

In this case, pirates will get SimCity and probably play it offline anyway once it is cracked.

 

Granted, I see some advantages to propriety software but ultimately the less DRM and the more open it is, the better.

 

EA are the enemies of the internet!

[Ali Fish]

Here's something very important: you keep thinking about a "city-builder" as a Sim City 4 remake. If what you want is Sim City 4 - play that.

 

 

People are ! simcity 4 has shot up the steam charts today its 10/11 years old lol. Somewere along the line this got the "5" added to simcity in discussion and from the point of the media too. I`ve no idea where it came from though, but that is indication even if hypotheticaly given that there is some notion that people did want that. look at the amount of beta lets play videos with the number 5 associated in their titles. i say hypothetical in terms of people didn`t know what EA were gona chuck at them. I think given all this has happened, im solely interested in knowing what Maxis wanted initially and how they feel about it.

 

i honestly believe people did want the natural succesor because why would you not ? accepting what you have could be mainly fueled by the fact you have bought into it. surely thats where the majority of acceptance comes from now no ? dangerous to discuss this is now because of this purchase fueled opinion many many will have through what is a serious debacle. the feedback, the stats driven feedback all together point to this being pretty bad situation.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Ali Fish

[Succellus]

THAT!!

Without even entering the gameplay quality, POE in beta has its problems but is tons away more attuned to how things should be.

 

I think a good example of Diablo 3 done properly is Path of Exile - free to play, seamless online cooperation etc.

 

Anyway this simcity is has only sold so far for the SAME reason many companies take old titles off the shelves:

 

It is much easyer to sell crap if it has a name that has already connected to some comunity in the past.

 

SIMCITY remained on the solitary for years nobody understanding why. And to help sellrates there where many titles considered subpar or insatisfying like CITY XL, ANNO etc when compared to SIMCITY franchise.

Thats why the sells are good and its also why the comunity is raging because this simcity is totally inferior to that was expected. DRM is only an excuse, a good one, but behind it, it hides tons of stupid concept decisions.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Succellus

[EtherealN]

Ali Fish, there is a counter to your fallacious prisoner-dilemma argument:

 

It wasn't exactly what YOU wanted, therefore anyone that likes it must only be defending their purchase.

 

I purchased specifically because the lets-plays, TB's "WTF is" etcetera showed that they had given the economy more detail. A _lot_ more detail. This game is now a LOT harder than Sim City 4 ever was. Not harder to "survive", no, but a lot harder to succeed in, because you have a lot more to think about. It's no longer a mindless "build big to win", like SC4 and the previous games was.

 

No, it won't fit everyone. Like I said: if what you want is an upskinned SC4... this is not it. But why should it be? People who want that already have SC4! (And yes, I have SC4 on steam too. And I have an old physical copy somewhere.) The role of a sequel isn't to just upskin the old game - that's what we call "sequelitis". What they've done here is to take the concept but do something new with it, which, when I worked as a game critic at PC Gamer, I considered to be the one and only acceptable reason to make a sequel in the first place.

 

Same game again? No. New graphics isn't an acceptable excuse.

[Ali Fish]

Ali Fish, there is a counter to your fallacious prisoner-dilemma argument:

 

It wasn't exactly what YOU wanted, therefore anyone that likes it must only be defending their purchase.

 

I purchased specifically because the lets-plays, TB's "WTF is" etcetera showed that they had given the economy more detail. A _lot_ more detail. This game is now a LOT harder than Sim City 4 ever was. Not harder to "survive", no, but a lot harder to succeed in, because you have a lot more to think about. It's no longer a mindless "build big to win", like SC4 and the previous games was.

 

No, it won't fit everyone. Like I said: if what you want is an upskinned SC4... this is not it. But why should it be? People who want that already have SC4! (And yes, I have SC4 on steam too. And I have an old physical copy somewhere.) The role of a sequel isn't to just upskin the old game - that's what we call "sequelitis". What they've done here is to take the concept but do something new with it, which, when I worked as a game critic at PC Gamer, I considered to be the one and only acceptable reason to make a sequel in the first place.

 

Same game again? No. New graphics isn't an acceptable excuse.

 

i understand and agree with what you say, and yes im a bit more narrow minded in my view, i like challenging it all from all angles because its EA we are talkin about. please dont confuse with me somone that wants to argue my point over anyone elses is all im asking because its just another opinion and yes i probally push it too much in terms of challenging it all.

 

you see my main dillema is seeing how damn cool that glassbox engine is and re envisioning simcity4 within and using the current ideas and depth bar the antipiracy and forced multiplayer. now thats a damn cool product is it not ? in comparsions we look at what we have got and consider & concieve what could have been. i know i look at the mp side as a conveniant design overlap into realms that have nothing to do with gaming and that is for their conveniance however twisted or straight up it is.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Ali Fish

[pacotito]

Isnt part of the online requirement due to alot of the simulation being done on the server? If that's the case would this game be able to be cracked?

[GeorgeLKMT]

...alot of the simulation being done on the server

 

This could be BS only to justify it. But who knows.

[cichlidfan]

This could be BS only to justify it. But who knows.

 

I certainly don't see a noticeable performance difference between a Core2Quad Machine and an i7 based system.

[Splat]

[...] Some people also complain about the simplicity. Addition of an underground construction (pipelines, metro) is missing... [...]

 

Why would they include those things in the base game when they could make them look cool and sell them to you at a later date? After all, EA has haughtily claimed microtransactions for all of their products henceforward. A grim, dark future indeed.

 

EDIT: A couple new articles re: SimCity on Rock Paper Shotgun today. There's this one about SimCity's launch and the idea of 'games-as-service' as well as RPS' first impressions for the UK launch.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Splat
RPS goodies!

[agrasyuk]

Despite all the bugs, lost progress , rolled back cities, missing utility capacities and other WTF's Still we had a very interesting game session in Ether's region. I also miss the big scale region build of SC4, this new incarnation is definitely not 100% of what I wanted. But it has potential. Management of resources is like never before and finally people are a resource importance of which was never that high in previous games. Cities can not be self sufficient anymore. Your gameplay will need to change. Once the kinks are worked out it will be good game.

 

Waiting for invite into new region ) . but let's do a different one . and perhaps try to coordinate better what we specialize in :) hopefully it will soon start updating region resources availability better

[GeorgeLKMT]

I don't think new simcity is somehow simplier or dumbed down. I wonder if people who saying this actually played it before.

 

As for microtransactions, read this: http://www.shacknews.com/article/78093/ea-clarifies-microtransactions-comments

[Euan3251]

wow sim city released and what do you know , servers been up and down for 3days well done EA that was always going to work cant even play single player sucks ! yip well done indeed

[cichlidfan]

I have been building very slowly and poking around in the various screens. There is a lot going on and it is probably just as complicated as SC 4 but in a different way.

 

Personally, I think that if/when they get the major kinks worked out this is going to be quite challenging.

[Conure]

I don't think new simcity is somehow simplier or dumbed down. I wonder if people who saying this actually played it before.

 

As for microtransactions, read this: http://www.shacknews.com/article/78093/ea-clarifies-microtransactions-comments

 

That is a bunch of corporate nonsense.

 

"It's not that they will have them, it's that they can have them".

 

What does that even mean? That means absolutely nothing. It's a sentence which is completely devoid of any useful information - he may as well have just not said it and we'd still be back at the position of "all future games will have micro-transactions".

 

EA have cleverly designed their games to be useless without the DLC. Battlefield 3 is a nightmare to play without it - constantly being removed from servers when a new DLC map loads. Constant non-event (and expensive) DLC being puked out in a similar style to the release of Call of Duty (but accelerated even beyond that!).

 

Still, it'll sell - and most people will continue to buy, entirely happy about (or ignorant of) their continued relinquishing of their consumer freedoms. Ahh, humanity.

[agrasyuk]

Cichlidfan, come join us in EtherealN's region . by now you probably figured out how to stay in the green and not drive the plot into unrecoverable mess :)

[cichlidfan]

Cichlidfan, come join us in EtherealN's region . by now you probably figured out how to stay in the green and not drive the plot into unrecoverable mess :)

 

Perhaps this evening but definitely this weekend. I have a clue about some things but I haven't grown anything large enough to know if I am heading for disaster or not.

[Splat]

As for microtransactions, read this: http://www.shacknews.com/article/78093/ea-clarifies-microtransactions-comments

 

Yeah, I came across this the other day, but I don't believe it for a second. Sounds like panicked equivocation to me, especially given the context of SimCity's botched launch. EA has recently introduced microtransactions to Dead Space 3 and there are already three city sets available for purchase within SimCity. EA makes big bucks through in-app purchases for their mobile titles, it makes sense that they would try to shoehorn that business model into their major titles. Anything for a quick buck, and EA's got a lot of suits to pay.

 

Of course, I'm a huge pessimist when it comes to EA, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

EDIT: A few more reads about the ongoing launch fiasco, courtesy of Ars Technica.

EA disables non-critical gameplay features to relieve SimCity servers

EA not altering return policy for furious SimCity buyers

Edited March 8, 2013 by Splat
Links to articles

[Kevlon]

I have to say tough, I am disappointed by the size. You can't build on how you want your final city to look.Not if you want to build a city the size of London.

 

You can either build the suburbs or the city center.. not both. :/ ( a square of the city center that is :p )

Edited March 8, 2013 by Kevlon