SOS: Save our Smoke!

[159th_Falcon]

Have been following this thread on and off.

And i have an idea on what you guys are missing in the test mission.

 

A player controlled platform.

 

Normally, your playing the game controlling a plane or ground unit.

This means, especially whit the planes that extra processing power is going to the simulation of the player controlled vehicle.

 

Since there are no player controlled vehicle in the test mission there's enough resources left to mask an substantial and unacceptable drop in FPS

 

My suggestion, add an player controlled A10C (or similar)

into the test mission's and run them again.

[Nealius]

So compare DCS to DCS..

Load up DCS A10C and go head and drop 87s and 97s, fire rockets, blow the crap out of everyhing and tell me what your frames do.. Not much drop if any right?

 

ED nailed it with A10C. The game just runs like a dream.. ED, take a look at that. What the hell happened with World? Why were these effects changed and put out there in such a buggy state? Did not one single Dev or tester not look at the cbu slideshow and go Holy crap! That's not good at all.. Let's release it anyway.

 

Look at this post:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=89845

June of last year was when people started having CBU and effects slideshows. ED it has been 9 months we have been waiting to for you to fix this.. And oh hell lets just dump on some frame crippling burning smoke into the whole mess too..

 

Seriously what were they thinking?

 

Exactly. Back in the standalone A-10C module (v1.1.1 I think was the last I had) CBU-97s had a very slight framerate drop, but not that bad. Smoke didn't do anything. As soon as I got DCS world CBU-97s brought my framerate down to 7. Smoke was equally as bad.

[ENO]

Have been following this thread on and off.

And i have an idea on what you guys are missing in the test mission.

 

A player controlled platform.

 

Normally, your playing the game controlling a plane or ground unit.

This means, especially whit the planes that extra processing power is going to the simulation of the player controlled vehicle.

 

Since there are no player controlled vehicle in the test mission there's enough resources left to mask an substantial and unacceptable drop in FPS

 

My suggestion, add an player controlled A10C (or similar)

into the test mission's and run them again.

 

That and the multiplayer environment.

 

I'll set it up.

[wild turkey]

Its funny, i am running Bioshock Inf on ULTRA everything and don't even max out my vram AND get upto 100fps on a 46" TV. I play this game and I cant squeeze out 30 on even medium settings. This is a pure coding screwup.

[ENO]

A couple of client aircraft spots added...

Test5.miz

[Wolf Rider]

Its funny, i am running Bioshock Inf on ULTRA everything and don't even max out my vram AND get upto 100fps on a 46" TV. I play this game and I cant squeeze out 30 on even medium settings. This is a pure coding screwup.

 

Bio shock (I assume you refer to "Infinty") is a brand new game on a completely dfferent engine... comparing one sim to another game, is not fair, accurate, or kosher. Do you not read the thread through, absorb the relevant points and understand the topic before you post??

Edited April 6, 2013 by Wolf Rider

[statrekmike]

Its funny, i am running Bioshock Inf on ULTRA everything and don't even max out my vram AND get upto 100fps on a 46" TV. I play this game and I cant squeeze out 30 on even medium settings. This is a pure coding screwup.

 

Bioshock infinite deals with a much smaller scale world at any given time and that world, in addition to that, it is also a far less detailed world, everything in DCS World is pretty complex and even the simple firing of a rocket or bomb can lead to some very complex problems for the CPU to chew on.

 

The fact that Bioshock runs on a console should make things pretty clear to you.

[fjacobsen]

So compare DCS to DCS..

Load up DCS A10C and go head and drop 87s and 97s, fire rockets, blow the crap out of everyhing and tell me what your frames do.. Not much drop if any right?

 

ED nailed it with A10C. The game just runs like a dream.. ED, take a look at that. What the hell happened with World? Why were these effects changed and put out there in such a buggy state? Did not one single Dev or tester not look at the cbu slideshow and go Holy crap! That's not good at all.. Let's release it anyway.

 

Look at this post:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=89845

June of last year was when people started having CBU and effects slideshows. ED it has been 9 months we have been waiting to for you to fix this.. And oh hell lets just dump on some frame crippling burning smoke into the whole mess too..

 

Seriously what were they thinking?

 

I´m fully with You on this Rider.

 

I know that ED needs to put out new modules in order to earn money to keep business running, but still...

There are still alot of issues that has been around for too long, issues that has been reported again and again like the low FPS with CBU's and cannon fire. Also issues with CA and BS2.

From here it seems they where more eager to get FC3 released and put focu on fixing the issues for that rather than fixing the issues in the older modules.

 

Don´t get me wrong, DCS World and all it´s modulesis still the best modern combat flightsim around, but it´s frustrating to see that some important issues apparrently aren´t really attended.

 

Fjacobsen

[shagrat]

Its funny, i am running Bioshock Inf on ULTRA everything and don't even max out my vram AND get upto 100fps on a 46" TV. I play this game and I cant squeeze out 30 on even medium settings. This is a pure coding screwup.

Funny, I can watch brilliant movies on my iPAD in FullHD! Why is it not possible to do complex CAD Model calculations on my iPAD then??? :megalol:

 

Did you actually read the thread and use your brain before posting? :music_whistling:

 

To give you an idea: A 0.5 sec burst from the A-10C's GAU8 lets loose about 10-20 rounds. Each rounds trajectory and speed is calculated individually so the sim can determine where every single round hits. After hitting ground the ricochets are calculated and modeled! That goes for each Tank round (SABOT with tracer now ricochet nicely like in real live), MachineGuns, AK-47s and for Missiles that move and track moving targets it is even more to compute...

Well, let's agree that Bioshock looks nice, but is lacking some of these computations.

In addition, the "looks nice" is produced by the GFX Boards which are not the bottleneck of your system. DCS World is using CPU to do the calculations, because DX9/10/11 does not have a calculate "ricochets" or "Track plane with missile lock" functions integrated.

Unfortunately your i5 is not the Top notch CPU to handle excessive calculations. It has been discussed on this forums before and lots of times: DCS is CPU heavy, to enhance performance at the moment more CPU power aka MHz per Core is the best bet to increase performance (may be different with EDGE coming).

[Rider1]

Shagrat, do me a favor. Boot up A10C. Ripple off 4 87s, and shoot off a 21 pack of rockets.. Then maybe for good measure shoot a full drum of ammo at a target. Please note your frame rates.. Now boot up World and do the exact same thing. Please note your frame rates. Report back here. :music_whistling:

 

If you got guys with cutting edge computers running everything else they throw at it without out breaking a sweat and then drop one CBU in World and it brings the system to a crawl it's not the hardware.

 

It is a coding/testing/QA issue that these bugs are making it into public releases...

Edited April 6, 2013 by Rider1

[159th_Viper]

Shagrat, do me a favor. Boot up A10C. Ripple off 4 87s, and shoot off a 21 pack of rockets.. Then maybe for good measure shoot a full drum of ammo at a target. Please note your frame rates.. Now boot up World and do the exact same thing. Please note your frame rates. Report back here. :music_whistling:

...

 

All matters thay you mention have buggerall to do with the content of this thread. Please don't muddy the waters.

 

To confirm: The aspects you have mentioned are all known issues currently being attended to by the Devs.

[ENO]

This has turned into a bit of a p1ssing contest and while I'm 100% onboard with the frustration people who are coming in here looking for a fix will lose the message (138) where Rider posts modified smoke files. Back up your own files (there are 2 he mentions) and replace them with his modded versions.

 

He links to them HERE

 

I'm going to edit the first post as well but I'm going to recommend that anyone not providing solutions to this issue or results of their own objective testing save the commentary for elsewhere. We're trying to make the game better between patches, not argue about the imperfections.

[Deus-Olympus]

Hello ,

 

About the FPS drop while looking at some smokes , i found the total CPUs workload drop also to about 10%.

 

Here some pictures to explain, i used little mission with 5 F-15E being shoot-down at the same time, the first pic is when looking in the opposite direction of the smoke.

 

 

 

 

CPU is an i7 2600K @4.5Ghz hyperthreading ON

 

 

Maybe this is related to the fps issue, ENO can you confirm the same cpu workload drop ?

Edited April 6, 2013 by Deus-Olympus

[Kameni]

First of all>DeusOlympus: CPU calculates particle effects too, not all is up to GPU.

Look at CPU as a clock, rather like the thing that gives rhytm to piano players, it consolidates speed between different hardware in your PC, other than calculating stuff your programs do.

[Rider1]

Apologies to Eno for crapping in the thread... Sorry, man.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Rider1

[Deus-Olympus]

First of all>DeusOlympus: CPU calculates particle effects too, not all is up to GPU.

Look at CPU as a clock, rather like the thing that gives rhytm to piano players, it consolidates speed between different hardware in your PC, other than calculating stuff your programs do.

 

Yes i understand , but if you have more thinks to display and more particules data to calculate, the CPU workload should be more important, but the opposite think happen.

 

The first think i checked is that the power saving management for cpu is off,so it's never in idle mode (1.5Ghz).

[shagrat]

Shagrat, do me a favor. Boot up A10C. Ripple off 4 87s, and shoot off a 21 pack of rockets.. Then maybe for good measure shoot a full drum of ammo at a target. Please note your frame rates.. Now boot up World and do the exact same thing. Please note your frame rates. Report back here. :music_whistling:

 

If you got guys with cutting edge computers running everything else they throw at it without out breaking a sweat and then drop one CBU in World and it brings the system to a crawl it's not the hardware.

 

It is a coding/testing/QA issue that these bugs are making it into public releases...

it was not about the bug. That is definitely there. I have similar framerate drops. When dropping CBU-87 at least, can't confirm the Smoke bug yet, but I hadn't much time to fly the last two weeks.

I was referring to the useless comparison of Bioshock and DCS.

wild Turkey's post implied DCS world won't run acceptable on his PC in general (CPU heavy) but Bioshock infinity does (GPU heavy). Looking at his rig it comes to mind what causes the different performance?

Anyway, viper already said the devs are aware. Keep in mind ED is a small company with limited ressources, hence it is more likely that sometimes even annoying bugs get through.

Me and my friends still can fly most sessions without major problems... apart from CBU-87. Rockets are something where it won't matter if they fix the smoke issue while the damage delivered is comparable to a firecracker... ok, we get too much of topic.

As said I do not see a general framedrop from smoke, other than the known: plane wreck and rocket salvos.:huh:

[ENO]

Apologies to Eno for crapping in the thread... Sorry, man.

 

You're the one who fixed it so I figure you're entitled- but nobody will find your fix if we're not careful.

 

I've since updated the first post in the thread with a link to your fix. Thanks again!

[wild turkey]

You can talk shit about my "supposed bottleneck" all day, I really don't care. I can run DCS-A10c maxed with frame rates to give away but world craps the system. Was working fine on my "supposed bottleneck" before. So if the only thing that changed was them throwing in "world" to combine everything, I tend to lean towards coding errors, all it takes is a few wrong arguments or calls to something and oh look, my frames shat out the floor cause there is a { or ! Or even a _ in the wrong place.

 

On top of all this hyper threading doesn't really kick in until you bring in multiple cores. Then it really shines, oh wait, world doesn't have the "in the coding" YET...:doh:

 

 

The cbu 87's have been death for awhile. the 97's and 105's still make your gear work harder but they don't give me a slideshow.

 

 

Oh and by the way I have one of these( ASUS Z9PE-D8)sitting next to my gaming system. Running 32gb ram 2 xeons both with hyper threading. 12tb of drive space 1 gtx 690 and. 240gb ssd for the system, same results, a10c my frames read TILT, DCS world it kills that system too.

Edited April 6, 2013 by wild turkey

[shagrat]

You can talk shit about my "supposed bottleneck" all day, I really don't care. I can run DCS-A10c maxed with frame rates to give away but world craps the system. Was working fine on my "supposed bottleneck" before. So if the only thing that changed was them throwing in "world" to combine everything, I tend to lean towards coding errors, all it takes is a few wrong arguments or calls to something and oh look, my frames shat out the floor cause there is a { or ! Or even a _ in the wrong place.

 

On top of all this hyper threading doesn't really kick in until you bring in multiple cores. Then it really shines, oh wait, world doesn't have the "in the coding" YET...:doh:

 

 

The cbu 87's have been death for awhile. the 97's and 105's still make your gear work harder but they don't give me a slideshow.

 

 

Oh and by the way I have one of these( ASUS Z9PE-D8)sitting next to my gaming system. Running 32gb ram 2 xeons both with hyper threading. 12tb of drive space 1 gtx 690 and. 240gb ssd for the system, same results, a10c my frames read TILT, DCS world it kills that system too.

I bow to your mighty rig! Very impressive, but still the single core that computes the DCS World is the limiting factor... more MHz better fps until you hit issues with video ram.;)

 

No contradiction on the bug issue, but that is since World introduced the new explosions, I guess CBU-87 has a lot of explosions with particles and that kills the framerates. Problem in general is the CPU power that is limited, at the moment. I was opposed to the apples and oranges comparison of Bioshock to DCS.

 

Please be aware, that DCS World introduced a lot of enhancements to the environment. Just search for multiplayer+stability. ED have done a lot to optimize here, but still ,with MP especially, our CPUs get hit because it is necessary to sync between clients, I guess.

I was pointing out Bioshock makes use of your dual GFX boards and let DX10/11 functions do a lot of the calculations on the GFX shaders. The CPU calculates some AI for a few enemies compared to DCS and prepares some limited environment of (just a guess) 2 squaremiles?

DCS World with the current engine won't support that. I guess for EDGE they develop their own functions that can utilize shaders, because DX commands are optimized for nice FPS, and eye-candy in "games" not for flight simulations.

I know DCS A-10C 1.1.1.1 runs fine, so does Bioshock 1 on my old system with a 2.4GHz Core2Duo and a Nvidia 8400GTS, but Bioshock Infinity does not. Apples and Oranges!

Can we accept that ED devs are working on enhancing and optimizing World and a reversion to pre-world will not be a step in the right direction.

 

Let's all hope EDGE kicks performance wise...:thumbup:

[[Knight]]

This might be off topic but im having a problem with fps when firing my cannons in all aircraft and i noticed it has to do with the smoke as well. Is anyone else having that same problem? I will get 30 fps in game then pull the trigger then drops to 5 fps. real bad in the A10. I have a Saphire 7970 Oc'd edition if that helps.

[Wolf Rider]

NVidia users... try turning the Threaded Optimisation setting (in the NV control Panel) to Off.

(if ATI has a similar switch, try it as well)

 

 

may help, but then again it might not

[TZeer]

Did a small test.

 

I tried with Rider1 files and the changes that Ebs came with.

 

Ebs proposal: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1713395&postcount=81

 

Two first screenshots are default.

 

 

These are with Rider1's smoke.cfg files

 

 

And the last one here is with the changes to the lua files that Ebs posted early in the thread. Now, I have modified anything that can relate to smoke and fire in those files. I would need to do a more systematic approach to nail down exactly what change actually fixed it. The fire or the smoke, or both. I'm leaving for work again and will not be able to do any testing for the next 2 weeks.

 

 

 

One thing I found out is that this smoke issue with the wrecks is a GPU thing, it has nothing to do with the CPU. As I zoomed out the FPS went up same did the CPU load. As I zoomed in the FPS went down, same did the CPU load. The GPU was working 100% all the time since I had vsync off. This tells me that as the closer I get the more load is on the GPU and the CPU has to reduce it's work since the GPU is to heavily utilized and can't receive more from the CPU.

 

 

 

Added my mission file that is modified from ENO's original file. Moved the units out in some remote location.

 

PS: Again, for people making test scenarios. Put the units in a place where you know nothing else will interfere or compete for resources from your GPU, RAM or CPU.

 

I haven't looked at the other missions, but from what I can see from the screenshots there are buildings, trees, roads etc in the background. This WILL affect your results when you are looking at performance. All that's need is one guy tilting the camera the wrong way or tilting it to much and you have the whole horizon in the background render as well. And the result will not match with someone else who is running maybe a lower distance setting, moving the camera in a sharper angle+++

Testsmokeremote.miz

Edited April 9, 2013 by TZeer

[Wolf Rider]

Did a small test.

 

I tried with Rider1 files and the changes that Ebs came with.

 

These are with Rider1's smoke.cfg files

 

 

 

+++

 

 

 

Stock files (virgin install - no files tweaked), 314.07 NVidia driver for the attached below

Edited April 10, 2013 by Wolf Rider

[SkateZilla]

I think we're overlooking Driver Configs..

You know, AA Type, AA Enhancments (for edges and stuff), AF Type/Settings, random Sub Settings like Triple Buffering, yada yada yada.