03 and 07 May 2013 Updates

[Risk]

ED I will pre pay double if you commit full resources to building the F-18c before the year is out. :thumbup:

[Kuky]

if you dont stall and fall into the ground in the process..... Assuming we are doing flat circles..

 

But yeah, I was saying, if i was behind him chasing him and he decided to try that, he'd just be putting his plane in position for a Top Down shot, and I'd unload on him.

 

If you were in 1st circle and flanker pulled his nose into you, you'd see an archer towards you and game over for you

[howie87]

I can understand people's disappointment and agree that ED should have termed the F-15 and SU27 'FC3+' level.

 

Using the DCS branding got a lot of people over excited.

[karambiatos]

If theres one thing gamers are able to do is complain like none have complained before.

 

Honestly non clickable cockpits , with simplified systems are a smart idea.

There are alot of people out there that dont buy DCS simply because joysticks are incredibly overpriced its like as if your ergonomic 6000 DPI laser mouse, with weights cost $300, its quite honesty insane.

I my self cannot even afford to dish out for a x52 pro or no pro. and i have to make up a poor mans hotas by using a controller and my crappy joystick to play DCS a-10c and not fumble around with the keyboard controls.

The lower fidelity airplanes dont need this and because of that i find them much more fun to play.

As a person who bought FC3 i just hope that the 27 and f-15 are less than $40 dollars.

 

p.s. will the BS2s over trim problem ever be fixed?

[jctrnacty]

Well i think its pretty clear.

 

Mid range F-15 and Su-27 is for those who dont have lockon and dont have a FC3. You will get F-15 and SU-27 with the same cockpit and model like in FC3 plus AFM with reduced price. This is midrange, then later these airplanes will get clickable cokcpit and they will be DCS branded.

 

I dont have a problem with this to buy those products but i hope we will be able to upgrade them to DCS level for the same price of full DCS. I was dissapointed to buy BS1 and then BS2upgrade and then finally BS2 full because i hated to install BS1 activate then BS2 upgrade and uninstall BS1.

 

I am for possibility to buy midrange product for example 20 dollars and then upgrade it for i dont know 30 and get the full activation key for DCS branded plane so that and I dont have to do everytime the dance install.ED has our key database so they know very well what we bought.

 

None of us can get DCS level planes immediately, so its a step by step work right now.

[Kuky]

I can't find the announcement for this but I'm confused. Why would we want an f-15 and su-27 that's not complex when we already have simplified versions of them in FC3?

 

Because AFM is quite a difference in how you will actually fly these birds... couple this with AFM for missiles (which is still being tweaked and fixed) and you get quite good air combat... simpler radar systems is not that bad when you compare that even if you had full blown radar system of a fighter actually firing these missiles and flying would not be much different so for me AFM for these fighters is very good step forward and I am looking forward to it.

[Kuky]

to remove the requirement of having LockOn.

 

it's $50 for FC3, + at least $10 for LockOn.

 

and that's not such a bad thing

[Yskonyn]

If theres one thing gamers are able to do is complain like none have complained before.

 

Honestly non clickable cockpits , with simplified systems are a smart idea.

There are alot of people out there that dont buy DCS simply because joysticks are incredibly overpriced its like as if your ergonomic 6000 DPI laser mouse, with weights cost $300, its quite honesty insane.

I my self cannot even afford to dish out for a x52 pro or no pro. and i have to make up a poor mans hotas by using a controller and my crappy joystick to play DCS a-10c and not fumble around with the keyboard controls.

The lower fidelity airplanes dont need this and because of that i find them much more fun to play.

As a person who bought FC3 i just hope that the 27 and f-15 are less than $40 dollars.

 

p.s. will the BS2s over trim problem ever be fixed?

 

This is besides the point. There are a lot of developers out there that cater to your suggested type of gamer.

What has made ED stand out was that -after many years of not having one- they were actually a developer going to take the road of true combat flight simulation again, with a brand (DCS) to show for it.

 

Even the FC3 fidelity aircraft are hard to fly with keyboard only. A joystick is the bare minimum to have as an input device. But that's a whole different subject.

[luza]

I quite honestly feel deceived. Won't go into detail as plenty people before me have outlined the points near perfectly. First ED products I won't be supporting for sure.

[upupandaway]

Admittedly, I wasn´t thrilled reading the statement, but...

 

I read people writing that they are disapointed and that ED is "a company just like any other"...

Well, duh, they are. I wonder what kind decisions would be made by the same people if they had a say in it. I simply don´t understand why this has everybody so aggravated.

 

Supporting DCS by buying products you are not primarily interested in is fine, but consider that this is not a direct vote. They have a ton of polls in here - polls, not votes. Buying the product doesn´t equal buying a share of the company. They have been very considerate towards input and feature requests in the past, but I guess that´s the first thing people tend to forget once they feel they "have been done wrong". This kind of support is a long term support and while not everything is always fine in DCS, look at the progress that has been made in the last 1-2 years.

 

Just as a precautionary measure:

And no, I´m not an obedient fan boy, I bought their stuff to support them, yes, but also because I respect the work that goes into them and last but not least some of these "secondary" modules turned out to be a lot of fun for me once I tried them...

 

Think about it and answer honestly - EDGE will come closer to completion at the end of this year, there might be the first evolutionary (!) step towards DCS: F-15/Su-27 (at reduced prices for those who own FC3 - look up the statement on FB), the F-18 is being worked on, bug-fixes, new features for free. It´s all going in the same direction - more DCS modules, but also stuff for those who don´t like it that hard.

How much (complex) work do you think a ~40-man-team can do in that time?! After all, they are not a company like any other... First of all, they made the step into independence, but that means that they carry more risk, which has to be compensated for. After what happened about 10-15 years ago with this genre, I think they are taking an even bigger risk and they need to finance their investments.

 

I would have loved to have EDGE, the F-18, F-15 and Su-27 all ready and up to DCS standard in 2013/14, but that doesn´t sound realistic, now does it?!

Edited May 8, 2013 by upupandaway

[Risk]

This is a repost of what I posted in the 104th forums. Keep in mind, I am a huge ED fan, I appreciate all their work, and this is just my opinion. Regardless of reason, it is disappointing to me.

 

----------------

 

I understand that less work means quicker release and an earlier revenue, but nonetheless, this is so disappointing to me. Not to mention, the plan is to release these before F-18.

 

I always wondered why they can't just release something to A10C detail level, then just provide the game option for those that don't want the steep learning curve. Now I see it is to generate revenue more quickly by turning out a module with less detail and work. I wish this wasn't necessary. I understand economics should be the driving factor. In fact, I almost wish no one would buy lower detailed modules or FC just so that high detailed modules were released only. It is a niche market for sure, and that fact sucks hard. Perhaps a highly detailed DCS module should go for $100+ and if it sold the same quantity, all would be good. I don't know. ED knows best what is best for them.

 

All I want is a modern fighter, preferably multirole, simulation to the level of the great work ED did with A-10C before I die!!!! The wait continues...

 

+1

[SNAFU]

IMO it is wise decision, even though I personally might not be too excited about it.

 

It seems ED didn´t get enough info for a real DCS F-XX yet or met another wall on the way, for which they didn´t find a ladder yet. Until EDGE is ready and they found a solution to get a DCS F-XX done, they need to bridge the gab and find some income. Apperantly FC3 with the LOMAC-to-be-installed Limitation is not attracting enough new players to increase the customer base to a level, they can bridge the noone-knows-how-many years until the next DCS F-XX, which is no surprise.

 

So they decided to built on what they have and what is the back-bone of their business origin. Improve them step by step and maybe end with a DCS level, but instead of digging in for the next 3 years until this level might be possibly reached, give something to the customer in the progression. Today methinks noone knows if a DCS F-15C, Su-27 or F/A-18C is possible at all, but sitting back until we know, doesn´t help either. So we have to get there step by step and look how close we can get. But someone has to pay it.

 

I might even buy it some day. So far I didn´t buy FC3 and do not plan not buy a mid-level Su27 or F-15C, but I honestly hope it works out for ED, while I am enjoying what we have and looking forward for the Fishbed.

Edited May 8, 2013 by SNAFU

[Hellfire257]

I'm interested depending on two conditions:

 

1) Something other than just AFM;

2) Reasonably priced.

 

Number one is flexible, the second not so much. $40 or $50 would be out of the question, $30 would be pushing it. Of course, this is feature dependent and I would pay a higher price for additional features other than AFM.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Hellfire257

[Yskonyn]

Admittedly, I wasn´t thrilled reading the statement, but...

 

I read people writing that they are disapointed and that ED is "a company just like any other"...

Well, duh, they are. I wonder what kind decisions would be made by the same people if they had a say in it. I simply don´t understand why this has everybody so aggravated.

 

 

I don't think it is as much the fact that people don't see ED has to make money. I think almost everyone does.

People are just dissapointed because ED chose their words badly.

Calling a module 'DCS' results in people expecting it to be a high fidelity one. Now it turns out they will not be.

[opps]

Does Su-27 mean Su-27S or Su-27SM? Su-27SM was already anounced but Su-27S is not. So I hope...

[Lord_Pyro]

All those ppl who are surprised by the roadmapchanges and that DCS now could include low fidelitymodules, are you really angry about beeing (like some of you might want to call it) missled?

 

You know, Roadmaps can change daily as the market for simulations can. You should never forget that DCS is a product of a company without any special fundings, struggeling to survive like every other company has to. And like every other company they have to react on what the marked dictates and what earns the money. If they say Fc3 sells greatly they would be fools not to react accordingly. I for myself like dcs hifimodules a lot more than fc fi and had high hopes for the hornetrelease during this year but such things change and it's ok. Just accept it and read not just the beginnings of the senteces but also the endings. Eagle and Flanker will gradually be improved until they reach high fidelity. It's a matter of time but if Ed would go for high fi straight it would be a matter of time and money probably resulting in the release of nothing due to the company closing down everything.

 

You are customers and going to be customers for new products and beside the nevadamap there is no futurproject u donated money to, so there is no need at all for them to discuss a roadmap with us regarding these projects.

 

If you donate large amounts of money they could probably work on the hornet at full force but would that be reasonable?

[Kuky]

It's not good to see two types of F-15C or Su-27 with different FMs in a same server.

 

Not likely to happen... what I understand is that ED will create (is in process of creating) AFM for Su-27, F-15C and A-10A and FC3 aircraft will get this in future updates (I assume this will be for free for anyone that owns FC3 already)... and now (the important part)... ED will also release separate module for DCS to include F-15C and Su-27 (either as double pack or single a/c) for people who do not want or have FC3 (as it would cost more and requires Original LockON).

 

It simply does not make sense to leave Su-27 and F-15C in FC3 with all new 3D models and pits without AFM, and to have separate module for DCS of same aircraft with exact same 3D model and pit... with AFM.

 

I think ED is doing the right/good thing for themselves and customers... simply because hi-fidelity fighter module will take long time to finish, so adding AFM, along with new 3D model and pits and AFM for missiles... and you please vast majority of people.

[Lord_Pyro]

Does Su-27 mean Su-27S or Su-27SM? Su-27SM was already anounced but Su-27S is not. So I hope...

 

Su27S. It was clearly said that they would use Fc planes as source for improvements.

[howie87]

If theres one thing gamers are able to do is complain like none have complained before.

 

Honestly non clickable cockpits , with simplified systems are a smart idea.

There are alot of people out there that dont buy DCS simply because joysticks are incredibly overpriced its like as if your ergonomic 6000 DPI laser mouse, with weights cost $300, its quite honesty insane.

I my self cannot even afford to dish out for a x52 pro or no pro. and i have to make up a poor mans hotas by using a controller and my crappy joystick to play DCS a-10c and not fumble around with the keyboard controls.

The lower fidelity airplanes dont need this and because of that i find them much more fun to play.

As a person who bought FC3 i just hope that the 27 and f-15 are less than $40 dollars.

 

p.s. will the BS2s over trim problem ever be fixed?

 

Strangely I find the opposite. Flying FC3 I never seem to have enough buttons on my hotas. In Falcon BMS and the DCS titles, one button has several functions depending on which mode you're in, which cuts down on the total number of buttons needed, making things more ergonomic.

[upupandaway]

I don't think it is as much the fact that people don't see ED has to make money. I think almost everyone does.

People are just dissapointed because ED chose their words badly.

Calling a module 'DCS' results in people expecting it to be a high fidelity one. Now it turns out they will not be.

 

I read that very statement a couple of pages back. Ok, it´s not an ideal choice of words - but they are supposed to be full DCS modules later. Consider also, that DCS-level AA-mechanics aren´t implemeted yet and nobody here really knows how far along they are. They probably can´t release that in 2013, so it´s something to go along with the completion of the F-18 - at least that´s what I´m thinking...

 

And yes, you get the impression that this is some kind of forum frequented only by law school graduates - judging by the way people weigh words and spew out accusations - it´s not reasonable in my eyes.

[Yskonyn]

All those ppl who are surprised by the roadmapchanges and that DCS now could include low fidelitymodules, are you really angry about beeing (like some of you might want to call it) missled?

 

If you buy a Ferrari which had a V10 engine in its specs while being advertised to you and once you take it for a testdrive you find out it has a Nissan 1.6 litre engine instead, would you feel cheated? :D

 

Like said before; it was ED themselves who have always claimed the DCS brand was for high fidelity stuff only. Now they state that this is not neccessarily true in the future.

 

That's dissapointing indeed.:thumbup:

 

People might be flexible and just shrug. As a company I believe you have to stand for your brand. You have been building up a community and expectation around your brand for several years. You're bound to step on some toes when you just state it has changed over night.

 

People do understand you need to make money, again, I do too. But you need to be upfront to your customers.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Yskonyn

[Levinsky]

Hi,

 

I've sat back for well over 12 months now and read threads like this one, often because like most I'm excited about new announcements and the possibilities they bring, some times you feel disappointment because of delays or whatever. Now days I have to be honest I look at some of the posts in these threads and think "get some perspective, life is full of change, delays and disappointments. Move on and enjoy what you have now".

 

People get upset because they feel somehow wronged at the term DCS being used to describe anything less then A-10C fidelity. Well Combined Arms is labelled DCS and I'm not having a go, but it's not A-10C level fidelity. I guess you could argue the precedence has already been set that DCS doesn't always mean A-10C level.

 

Here's another thought. There are lots of software developers out there. There are not a lot of software developers who will or even have the skill/knowledge to work on simulators like DCS. Therefore it's not always a matter of throwing more money at the problem to get what you want faster. You need skilled people with a passion and a dream of something great. They don't just grow on trees!

 

Guys learn to enjoy what we have today and look forward to the fact we have an organisation (I'm not aware of any others doing what ED are doing) that have the passion and the skill to work on keeping our hobby alive. There will always be the "next module/aircraft" and I'm not saying for one minute not to get excited or feel disappointment - but just keep it in perspective.

[Noj]

so the 15 and 27 will only have AFM added.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :megalol: :megalol: :megalol: :megalol:

 

:thumbup:

 

I read threads like this because I find them immensely amusing!

[chev255]

Initially ED claimed that the label 'DCS' would stand for high-fidelity study sims. This was all around the release of the A-10C and up to the release of the P-51D.

Just recently they suddenly confirmed a DCS F-15 and DCS SU-27. This has led many to believe these would be high fidelity sims as a result of always claiming DCS modules were going to be high fidelity (although some eyebrow raising was going on questioning about how they would have found the time to create another two high fidelity sims next to the F/A-18 ).

 

To me, ED has not deviated from what they announced regarding HiFi / LoFi modules: Matt mentionned the "FC3+" Su27 and F-15C with AFM as "F-15C Eagle and Su-27 Flanker for DCS World"

DCS F-15C and DCS Su27 will be when they are available with the full avionics.

[Yskonyn]

 

Guys learn to enjoy what we have today and look forward to the fact we have an organisation (I'm not aware of any others doing what ED are doing) that have the passion and the skill to work on keeping our hobby alive. There will always be the "next module/aircraft" and I'm not saying for one minute not to get excited or feel disappointment - but just keep it in perspective.

 

Good point and I do. :)

I am just trying to make my point clear.

I have stated several times that I do understand ED's move from a business perspective. If word of mouth starts flowing about 'that DCS brand with that insanely difficult stuff now also has platforms we like because they are simpler!' probably works very well to pique the interest of a lot of outside gamers/simmers. And I wish them well.

That's not the point however.

 

ED is not my friend. It's a company and I am their customer.

If a company changes its policy I would expect them to inform their customers with full disclosure. Not build up a tease on wrong expectations.

 

Sure, views can change, policies can too. I am open to that like anyone else.

But as I do not have a personal relationship with ED, but a business one I value those changes a bit differently. As do others I am sure.

 

Nothing too big, though. I am still a supporter. Just a dissapointed one at this point in time. ;)

 

To me, ED has not deviated from what they announced regarding HiFi / LoFi modules: Matt mentionned the "FC3+" Su27 and F-15C with AFM as "F-15C Eagle and Su-27 Flanker for DCS World"

DCS F-15C and DCS Su27 will be when they are available with the full avionics.

 

From the last newsletter:

Currently the team is focused on completing Flaming Cliffs 3 and continued updates and improvements to DCS World. Once Flaming Cliffs 3 is complete, more of our focus will shift to upcoming DCS titles like the F-15C, F/A-18C and Fw-190D9. Looking further out, Eagle Dynamics and our partners plan a large number of new modules that include the Su-27SM, F-86F, MiG-15Bis, MiG-21Bis, Hawk, Mi-8, Mi-24, OH-58 and AH-1G, to just name a few.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Yskonyn