DCS WWII: Europe 1944

[BRooDJeRo]

So everyone is on the hype of historical or vintage aircraft these days?

 

Any plans for humpty-dumpty radar too?

[gavagai]

Yes, I agree with you both. Still, it's amazing badly we (Americans) screwed up in trying to adopt the our own version of the Hispano cannon from the British. If the design had only been copied there might have been 20mm armed American fighters in WW2 (yes, Josh, I know, P-38 ).

[GGTharos]

I'm up there with the F-14/15/16/18/22/35's ... not all that interested in vintage airframes, including vietnam and korea war era jets.

 

So everyone is on the hype of historical or vintage aircraft these days?

 

Any plans for humpty-dumpty radar too?

[dimitri18]

Great, more WW2 games. DCS is already lacking modern aircraft and now they wanna make more WW2 planes?! This game is going to hell.

[NineLine]

Great, more WW2 games. DCS is already lacking modern aircraft and now they wanna make more WW2 planes?! This game is going to hell.

 

There are more announced modern aircraft than WWII aircraft... so, maybe rethink your overreaction....

[GGTharos]

Actually yes, it is great. There are plenty of people who want a WW2 environment, and now there's a 3rd party working on providing it within DCS.

 

As for modern aircraft, plenty have already been announced.

 

Regarding your last statement, think before you post.

 

Great, more WW2 games. DCS is already lacking modern aircraft and now they wanna make more WW2 planes?! This game is going to hell.

[Grim_Smiles]

Great, more WW2 games. DCS is already lacking modern aircraft and now they wanna make more WW2 planes?! This game is going to hell.

 

[Sharpe_95]

Originally Posted by dimitri18

Great, more WW2 games. DCS is already lacking modern aircraft and now they wanna make more WW2 planes?! This game is going to hell.

 

Actually yes, it is great. There are plenty of people who want a WW2 environment, and now there's a 3rd party working on providing it within DCS.

 

As for modern aircraft, plenty have already been announced.

 

Regarding your last statement, think before you post.

 

In fairness, there is merit in both parties point of view here. On the one hand, it is not unreasonable to imagine that there are just as many people not interested in war birds/unplayable content graphics improvements as there are people interested in FW190 or EDGE etc. Its the classic political conundrum Tharos; you cant please everyone, for every person you do please, there will be 2 or 3 others you displease. Its not unreasonable, its a fact of life.

 

On the other hand there is a genuine fear among the people I speak to across the DCS spectrum that ED is not putting enough attention to modern HiFi aircraft and there is very little info re: F/A18c. Can you blame people for feeling this way when the last official post made by Wags regarding the F/A18c was over two months ago on 17th May to say "As for our F/A-18C Hornet, the new external model can already be seen in DCS World and work on the cockpit has been on-going for quite a awhile. Once the last of the FC3 avionics bugs have been squashed, much of our avionics programming staff will move on to the Hornet."

 

Some communications hinting towards the F/A18s progress might not go amiss for those more interested in that than say, FW190, EDGE, improved AI graphics etc.

 

By the same token (and I am as guilty as anyone else here) its also fair to give ED a break and allow them to work on stuff and give news where it is available (or should I say, tangible)? Also, while I sympathise with the concern, I really cant see ED or DCS going 100% WW2 war bird with a long line of 3rd parties looking at everything from superbug to Hawk (not a war bird in sight - maybe the new 3rd party cant add some balance?).

 

For my part, a communication I would LOVE to see from ED would be a breakdown of 'how' one goes about 'building' a HiFi module, the stages involved (I don't know if working on a cockpit or an AFM is something that happens at the start, back or middle of the process), a rough order of magnitude of workload etc. Not only would this be informative, insightful and (I think) interesting, but it would also go a long way to managing your clients/customers expectations. After all, most people here are not Dev's.

 

But when all is said and done, I really think that if ED pursues the course it has laid out, ie (and in no order): F/A18c, AFM FC3, EDGE, Improved AI Graphics, Improved AI operation, Dynamic Campaign, Improved ATC, FW190, Nevada - to say nothing of the long list of 3rd party mods then DCSW will be THE ONLY place to do combat flight simming of any genre. This can surely only be a good thing (assuming infinite life of the graphics engine and code etc).

 

But with all the good will in the world, certain things will take priority - it cant all be done at once and something will be on the leading edge and something will be on the trail edge. So long as it all comes to fruition, everyone (ED AND customers) should understand that someone is not going to like the what comes first/last decision and someone is going to like it, and the majority will be indifferent.

 

But once its all there: WOW :thumbup:

 

-Sharpe

Edited July 25, 2013 by Sharpe_95

[GGTharos]

In fairness, there is merit in both parties point of view here. On the one hand, it is not unreasonable to imagine that there are just as many people not interested in war birds/unplayable content graphics improvements as there are people interested in FW190 or EDGE etc. Its the classic political conundrum Tharos; you cant please everyone, for every person you do please, there will be 2 or 3 others you displease. Its not unreasonable, its a fact of life.

 

Sorry but no; this has nothing to do with 'you can't please everyone'. In this case, both 'points of view' should have pretty equal satisfaction, it's just one person who decided to be dissatisfied instead of being informed.

 

On the other hand there is a genuine fear among the people I speak to across the DCS spectrum that ED is not putting enough attention to modern HiFi aircraft and there is very little info re: F/A18c. Can you blame people for feeling this way when the last official post made by Wags regarding the F/A18c was over two months ago on 17th May to say "As for our F/A-18C Hornet, the new external model can already be seen in DCS World and work on the cockpit has been on-going for quite a awhile. Once the last of the FC3 avionics bugs have been squashed, much of our avionics programming staff will move on to the Hornet."

Yes, I can blame them - and why? There's exactly one vintage module produced by ED: The P-51. They are working on the Dora, just to provide a counterpart, but the real deal here is that a WW2 environment is being provided by a 3rd party, and ED's efforts are once more focused on DCSW and modern aircraft.

[lunaticfringe]

P-51/Bf 109: Proof of concept.

 

ED shows it can be done, which then generates third party interest, thereby winning a licensing/license revenue stream.

 

Seriously, it's like people expect others to reinvent the wheel every time they want to develop a simulation. Eagle has opened the sandbox for those who have interest in WWII; they're not abandoning modern warfare- they're letting other people *handle* the warbirds, while making money off the existing engine.

 

Good gravy, it's like you people have never owned a business before.

 

Oh, wait...

[dimitri18]

Actually yes, it is great. There are plenty of people who want a WW2 environment, and now there's a 3rd party working on providing it within DCS.

 

As for modern aircraft, plenty have already been announced.

 

Regarding your last statement, think before you post.

 

If you want WW2 planes there's already a WW2 simulator up to DCS standards called IL-2 cliffs of dover. It also comes with a WW2 map, so no more pretending to be flying over northern Italy while flying through the Caucasus mountains.

[gavagai]

If you want WW2 planes there's already a WW2 simulator up to DCS standards called IL-2 cliffs of dover. It also comes with a WW2 map, so no more pretending to be flying over northern Italy while flying through the Caucasus mountains.

 

Whew, talk a bout a chilly welcome. I wouldn't even be here if it were not for the DCS P-51, and I will buy the 190D-9 whenever it is ready. Nice to meet you.:thumbup:

[NineLine]

DCS Standards? hardly....Obviously you never flew either CloD or the P-51D

 

If you want WW2 planes there's already a WW2 simulator up to DCS standards called IL-2 cliffs of dover. It also comes with a WW2 map, so no more pretending to be flying over northern Italy while flying through the Caucasus mountains.

[GGTharos]

If you want WW2 planes, they're coming to DCSW. Get over it.

 

If you want WW2 planes there's already a WW2 simulator up to DCS standards called IL-2 cliffs of dover. It also comes with a WW2 map, so no more pretending to be flying over northern Italy while flying through the Caucasus mountains.

[Echo38]

If you want WW2 planes there's already a WW2 simulator up to DCS standards called IL-2 cliffs of dover.

 

ROFL! Well trolled, sir! : D

[Grim_Smiles]

ROFL! Well trolled, sir! : D

 

:laugh:Indeed, first post was one thing as over reactions of doom like that happen a lot on here. But that second one? Nobody could be that ignorant by accident.

 

 

[SkateZilla]

Troooll in the dungeon... thought you'd outta know...

[LexiconG2]

I'm not a WW2 guy (even though the DCS P-51D is so much fun to fly :) ), but these are great news. DCS World is realy flourishing :)

 

They do this because making WWII content is not as hard as making a AFM F-16C or F-15C for that matter. Not going to buy this stuff washed and repeated over the years way to many times. Making money is great but I sort of can see through all of this.

[recoilfx]

If you want WW2 planes there's already a WW2 simulator up to DCS standards called IL-2 cliffs of dover. It also comes with a WW2 map, so no more pretending to be flying over northern Italy while flying through the Caucasus mountains.

 

I've totaled over 550hrs on Cliffs of Dover and it's real fun, but no way in hell any single plane in CLoD is up to DCS standard. The only part CloD has DCS p-51D beat is probably the damage modeling....

[GGTharos]

Actually yes, it is.

 

They do this because making WWII content is not as hard as making a AFM F-16C or F-15C for that matter.

[LexiconG2]

Actually yes, it is.

 

How they are so much simpler.

[GGTharos]

In what way? In the way you do (or don't) push buttons on them? Sure, they have fewer funky things onboard.

 

What about all the underlying flight, engine, and electrical dynamics simulation?

 

Sounds like another opinion that's out of touch with what you assume is easy vs what you know about simulating things.

 

How they are so much simpler.

[Cowboy10uk]

The only part CloD has DCS p-51D beat is probably the damage modeling....

 

Have to agree here, while I got burnt quite badly with CLOD, I have to agree the damage modelling was the best I have ever seen. Now if I could get CLOD running at a decent fps and the campaign was well done and believable I would be very happy with it.

 

IF this team brings the same level of damage modelling to their DCS modules, then with this engine behind it, damn we are in for a treat.

 

While I understand the concern about having ww2 aircraft in DCS world, we have to remember this is a combat simulator. It's no longer just a modern combat simulator. IF DCS manage to pull this off, then we will have stunning high fidelity aircraft simulated over the entire history of Military flight. Now that in itself is very very exciting.

 

I'm here because I have a love of flight, not just one aspect of it, however if you enjoy modern then, with this business model, you can load up a modern map, with amazing jets and have a blast, likewise if you enjoy prop then you can do the same but in a 1940s map. For myself I'm hoping a Vietnam era map turns up. I already have my wonderful Huey after all.

 

No era is better than another, but the main thing is, we get high fidelity aircraft for whichever era we prefer.

 

I understand that their are several different manufactures of modules so all eras should be able to be developed at the same time without slowing the development of other aircraft.

 

This is turning into the flight simulator I always dreamed off.

 

Cowboy10uk

[Flagrum]

In what way? In the way you do (or don't) push buttons on them? Sure, they have fewer funky things onboard.

 

What about all the underlying flight, engine, and electrical dynamics simulation?

 

Sounds like another opinion that's out of touch with what you assume is easy vs what you know about simulating things.

On the other hand, modern jets also have engines, electrical systems, hydraulics, etc. as well.

 

Maybe for a jet a bit "cheating" might be possible - like, a jet engine just gives thrust from 0-100 %, depending on the throttle setting. fullstop. Where a piston engine might be modelled a bit more detailed ... like in the P-51 where the engine performance depends on a few more variables.

[Darkwolf]

I have countless of hours with IL2: sturmovik, organizing LAN/BYOC games every two weeks on that specific game.

 

Even thus i wasn't satisfied at all with Cliffs of Dover, I think that ED + the former guys from Maddox Games will be awesome. Will support it !