The Laser guided missiles are broken

[Drona]

There is definitely a problem with the Su-25A and KH-25ML and I tend to agree with pepin that it has to do something with the Su-25A 6dof cockpit. I've attached two similar tracks with only the aircraft changed from the Su-25A to Su-25T. On the Su-25T, all the laser missiles including the Kh-25ML hit their intended targets whereas on the 25A some hit, and some miss.

Su-25T Laser Missiles Test.trk

Su-25 Laser Missiles Test.trk

[26-J39]

^ Yep.. I noticed online the KH-25ML launched from a Su-25T goes high then aims for its target like a hell-fire but not in the Su-25A. :noexpression:

[Kuky]

^ Yep.. I noticed online the KH-25ML launched from a Su-25T goes high then aims for its target like a hell-fire but not in the Su-25A. :noexpression:

 

That depends how you position the aircraft as you fire the missile. In 25A you aim with targeting cross in HUD so you are pointing your aircraft nose right at the target... while in Su-25T you are using Shkval to target meaning you don't have to point the aircraft nose at the target (and usually you are flying more level as you fire)... this is why missile goes bit higher first in Su-25T then drops down to light up on laser beam... so this has nothing to do with 6DoF :music_whistling:

[26-J39]

That depends how you position the aircraft as you fire the missile. In 25A you aim with targeting cross in HUD so you are pointing your aircraft nose right at the target... while in Su-25T you are using Shkval to target meaning you don't have to point the aircraft nose at the target (and usually you are flying more level as you fire)... this is why missile goes bit higher first in Su-25T then drops down to light up on laser beam... so this has nothing to do with 6DoF :music_whistling:

 

You raise some good points that make sense, thanks.. I did not mention anything about 6Dof tho.. :)

[Fishbreath]

My missiles were hitting short last night, but I only got the Su-25 as part of FC3 at the end of September. Gun pods seem to hit below the sighting mark, too—I put the center dot of the reticle on a vehicle and pull the trigger, and the guns depress to keep firing at the same spot, but all the rounds land short of the vehicle. If I aim a little bit long, I hit with all of them. Rockets and the internal gun seem to be closer to correct.

 

I guess it could be recoil for the gun pods, pushing the nose down a little as the internal cannon does before the pods start to depress?

[sonic]

I noticed that in the su-25 you have to fire laser guided missiles WITHOUT manoeuvring flaps to have "precise" aiming :(

[number3]

A fix went came out that should have resolved this problem

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1899257&postcount=4

 

Kh-22 missile 3D model corrected.

[BTTW-DratsaB]

Su25 can't fire Kh-22 (can any player aircraft?). I don't think that's a laser guided missile either.

That change is probably just a visual fix.

[number3]

Su25 can't fire Kh-22 (can any player aircraft?). I don't think that's a laser guided missile either.

That change is probably just a visual fix.

 

Ahh my mistake. Thought that was the missile that one of the user's in this thread tried.

[Eldur]

I noticed that the 25ML come too short if fired from long ranges without overriding (like 5-8km). No matter what angle they're fired from (shallow or 30-40° dive). I watched my missiles with F6/Ctrl+F6, zoomed in FOV and they were aiming perfectly, but in the last 2-3km of their glide, they just fell down slightly without correcting their course to stay on the laser spot. Their speed was like 2400km/h at launch and 1900-2000km/h on impact, so they should have plenty of energy to overcome gravity in the last bit of their flight. I'd post tracks, but I see others have done that already - just want to confirm what is being reported here. BTW they're totally fine while firing them off the T Frog.

 

Edit: Haven't tried with the recent patch ( 10-08 ) yet.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Eldur

[pepin1234]

not yet. I have tested in 1.2.6-2 but the same problem

[guitarxe]

So what was the newest version that it worked properly in? I'd like to downgrade for now.

[Eldur]

OK, testes it now, same as before.

[Dr_Arrow]

Well, I hope that it gets noticed as it seriously downgrades our attack capabilities :)

[pepin1234]

They are working at this Problem. This Video uploaded since 3 weeks show how the 25ML launched at 7km range, hit perfectly the unit:

 

[AtaliaA1]

Read through this as I wanted to learn more about the Missiles.

 

This is an example of DCS community at its best. No jumping down the neck of the guy who made a mistake, just intelligent exchange of information from a group of passionate intellects who enjoy this sim.

 

Good on All of you!!!!! GGTharos /ED Tester should see this one. sure he would give kudos too.

Edited October 11, 2013 by AtaliaA1

[number3]

This weekend I'm going to post a track for firing each type of laser guided missile; as it will help to illustrate any error on my part or any bug in the module.

 

Been meaning to do this before, but got caught up flying the ka-50 and reading up on mission building :smilewink:

[pepin1234]

This weekend I'm going to post a track for firing each type of laser guided missile; as it will help to illustrate any error on my part or any bug in the module.

 

Been meaning to do this before, but got caught up flying the ka-50 and reading up on mission building :smilewink:

 

remember the error is with the Su-25A, still not tested in Ka-50.

 

Do you have seen our tracks?? Please if you make a track, try shot the 25ml at 7km range, just to see.

 

Thank u

Edited October 11, 2013 by pepin1234

[number3]

remember the error is with the Su-25A, still not tested in Ka-50.

 

Do you have seen our tracks?? Please if you make a track, try shot the 25ml at 7km range, just to see.

 

Thank u

 

 

Yeah, I won't be testing with he ka-50. I was just saying I got caught up with another module.

 

I'll test the following (with the latest version of DCS World):

 

Kh-25ML at less than 10km - The manual says the range is 2 - 10 km (I will also try try one at less than 7km)

 

Kh-29L at less than 10km

 

S-25L at less than 7km

Edited October 11, 2013 by number3
Forgot to mention which version of DCS world I would be testing with.

[number3]

In a bit of a rush when I made these tracks but every laser guided missile seems find except for the kh-25ML.

 

The manual says the range is from 2 - 10km.

 

Note the range, and the range scale on the reticle for the KH-25ML. It only starts to scale down at 3km.

[Balion]

why does the KA-50's vikhr missiles loose laser track if you move the laser and point it elsewhere when the missile is airborne already?

It doesn't happen for me. Are you moving laser too fast maybe? Don't forget that vikhr missile is flying in laser grid and lose track if it goes out of this grid.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Balion

[seikdel]

Speaking of witch..., why does the KA-50's vikhr missiles loose laser track if you move the laser and point it elsewhere when the missile is airborne already? If you fire KH-25ML from KA-50 you can move the laser allover the place, and the missile will follow it in real time and not loose it's signal's track, but the vikhr looses it very easily if you move the laser. The same thing happens with Su-25T also when firing vikhr's if i remember..., looses track if you move the laser a bit!

 

Is this normal? Why does it happen?

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

You're moving the control zone (aka the laser) so that the missile is no longer in it. See this thread for an explanation of beam riding. Pictured #3 in there addresses your specific question.

[pepin1234]

Speaking of witch..., why does the KA-50's vikhr missiles loose laser track if you move the laser and point it elsewhere when the missile is airborne already? If you fire KH-25ML from KA-50 you can move the laser allover the place, and the missile will follow it in real time and not loose it's signal's track, but the vikhr looses it very easily if you move the laser. The same thing happens with Su-25T also when firing vikhr's if i remember..., looses track if you move the laser a bit!

 

Is this normal? Why does it happen?

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Well. Is not exactly like that. When you fire the 25ML, you can move your reticle a bit to correct the Impact, but you cant do an abrupt correction just before Impact. When you get some experience, you can hit moving armors.

 

The vikhr is different cuz the helicopter illuminates a sensor at the back of the missile and controls it with different light signal codes. So this technology force you to Keep yours sensors with an aceptable movement and vibration. This sound disappointing, but in the real life is not. The vikhr is faster and allow you a Launch at low altitud. So thats mean this Missile have an exelent cost/efficiency but you should do a good Job with your Ka-50.

 

The Kh-25ML is equipped with a semi-active laser homing seeker head. This Technology is expensive than the vikhr one, but give you some advantage while is guided.

 

You should practice and see the difference. Remember the Kh-25ML should be launched at more than 1000m altitud

 

back sensor of Vikhr missile

 

Edited October 14, 2013 by pepin1234

[VapoR]

We were testing out the laser-guided missiles in the 314th server tonight. Good news: seems like they did get fixed with this latest patch! We even managed to get some kills at 8-10km with the Kh-25ML!

 

Thanks ED, this was a pleasant surprise after not seeing it in the changelog!

[pepin1234]

After some test I have to say have been an extrem change with the Su-25A presisions missiles. My conclution, they introduce much more code.

 

More realistic? Yes, it is. Specialy with the announced new engine smoke, this new accuracy, together with this laser missile results and the IR units convert the Toat in the Circus Clown. honestly this missile precision look like random accuracy.

 

Observation for improve this situation:

 

1-To get an AL with the S-25L you should down the nose til the reticle cross get the top of the Hud. (the S-25L should leave the pylon with the right direction cuz it is a rocket). good

 

2- The Kh-25ML should be launched at 7 km, thats way you should be at 5 km distance from target at the moment the missile is still at 1km to reach the target. That way you get the aceptable laser range of the Su-25A sensor. (even being at 5km from target we get a bad accuracy even having the laser pointer over the target)

 

3- We get better Performance with the Kh-29L using the same Kh-25ML procedure. Why, this not right cuz the Kh-29L is a heavy Missile compared with the Kh-25ML and also have the same seeker head.

 

So, conclutions. Waiting for a new Laser missiles tutorial. This is a new aircraft, compared with the FC2 Su-25A...

 

 

 

New Air-Ground AFM Missiles?? god :fear:

 

PD: VapoR and eXPeRT do you have some track to show your procedure?? Here mine

Laser missile Bug for Su-25A-5.trk

Edited October 23, 2013 by pepin1234