GrEaSeLiTeNiN

Thanks for the vid. Nice hovering there. I noticed the SCAS coincides with your inputs quite well. You did not mention holding down FTR so I presume it's your smooth inputs keeping SCAS in agreement with you? I find mine fighting often but then I have a warthog stick (default stiffness) and VKB T rudders (small displacements). I can see how those springless damped pedals are a good choice. Is your stick on extension as well? I'm thinking a loose stick makes inputs effortless but could also create more SCAS activity if movements are too fast unless mounted with an extension. Your workaround on the FTReset is interesting. So when the axes inputs are disabled and you reposition the stick, you estimate where the stick should be based on the controls indicator? I hope ED can add in such a workaround in the special options or at least the option of having a slower/smoother trim reset instead of the jump. Thanks again.

YouTube hover tutorials are mostly sanitised IGE hovers. What I suggest for now is set your missions to have little to no wind if possible to help with transition to OGE hover to face target location.

How do you install this without OVGME? Thanks

So I did some practice with OGE hover turns here. Your original tutorial method works for me. I just have to do it gently and watch the momentum at the end of the turn. If I overshoot the desired bearing, I apply pedals trim to adjust. Disabling ATT hold is an option too but I end up using cyclic control to stay in hover position. I use VKB T-pedals with instant trim as they have short pedal movements and that seems to work for me.

The tutorial vid looks to be pre ALT hold mode but I believe it is mainly ATT hold that restrains yaw. Then again ALT hold might affect yaw in some way since it works the collective as well and thus the torque? Let’s hear from an SME.

This just popped up on my YouTube. Have yet to try it with the current beta. Looks like adding and maintaining pedal a little beyond SCAS authority (>20%?) is one way. The other is trimming if the yaw adjustment required is smaller.

I have a desktop Warthog and VKB T pedals. After reading your post, I decided to try instant trimmer again for both hotas and pedals. I also drastically changed the axes tuning especially for yaw [Pitch and Yaw = Dead0, X100, Y75, Curve15, Pedals = Dead0, 100X, Y70, Curve 15, Collective = Dead0, X/Y100, Curve15]. Dead0 and instant trimmer gave me quicker response and control, something that's needed with the current state of the Apache. So flying now involves a lot of 'micro' trim tapping and stick centering. Yaw on the pedals was super sensitive so I set it to Y70. For the problematic rolls, Y75 made inputs less sensitive but I retained the ability to roll 360 on demand, not as quickly but enough. Trim to stable hover parameters from speed, then engage ATT hold and ALT hold, and OGE hover is now more doable. My main problem though is that after all that 'fighting' to hover stably, I often end up facing away from the target’s location and have to apply rudder trim bit by bit to align the aircraft to the target. And sometimes that messes things up. Is there a better way to do this? Update: Found this tutorial. Just what I needed. There's the usual tussle with and dilemma with SCAS of course. Holding FTR down to bring the + closer to my ◇ and x just means destabilising things and you can end up all over the place. The + also moves back to where it wants to go after you release FTR hold down, so I find FTR hold down kind of pointless or at least I haven't found a right use for it. I could trim to bring my ◇ and x to where the + is to 'agree' with SCAS but that just means status quo and the + may also move again. So far, trim tapping bit by bit seems to be the safest way to go about it. The tutorial vids I've been able to find so far only show IGE hover from take-off or a slow approach speed in stable conditions. I have yet to find one demonstrating OGE hover from a higher approach speed and maneuvering to face the target's location in some wind. I guess the procedure would basically be the same but it would show the true nature of SCAS and how to best handle it, albeit a WIP. I see the above axes tuning and instant trim option as a workaround. I hope they fix the FM not in the sense that ED feels it's about right and just needs a little tweaking because I can't believe this is how the Apache behaves IRL. Even in logic, it feels off - being roll happy and having excessive momentum with small inputs. [updated]

Been flying the Ka-50 for a couple of weeks. Probably spoiled by it. I just went back to the Apache (OB latest) to see if the patch made things better. But initial impressions to me are that it is worse than before. Maybe I just need time to get use to it again. But it is certainly the most unstable helo in DCS. I mean roll a little, trim, but it rolls some more. Pitch a little, trim, but it pitches some more. There is just way too much unwanted momentum to any input you make. Feels like I am trying to center a ball on a moving table when hovering.

It's the way things are here. We pay full price knowing it's an unfinished product and soon realise we are in some ways unofficial testers. Why do a thorough test when they have many consumers who will eventually find the bugs they missed? IMO, the problem is that DCS is about playing open beta. So we forget after a while it's... beta.

Module wise, Apache because it is new. Choice in a mission, Ka50 as it is more efficient (SP) and does not have a crazy ghost pilot called SCAS.

Just downloaded and put the unzipped folder into C drive as "DCS Briefing Room". I can open the main menu interface by clicking on the Briefing Room Desktop/Web exe but clicking on any of the blue buttons (Quick Generator, Full Generator, etc) doesn't do anything, whether using the Desktop or Web version. The previous version was fine. I tried running it as Administrator but the blue buttons still won't open up anything. Did I miss a step? Thanks. Update: I used the Beta version instead and it works.

I see, come to think of it I use to use 2 modifiers also in my previous T.Flight Hotas in the jet modules. As others mentioned, a good thing is to watch the video display (as pilot) what CPG George has locked up and whether a launch is viable. Can't completely trust him at the moment as he is WIP. Yeah the stacking order isn't user perfect. I find "repeat search" (long down) doesn't really work and often does short down ("stop laser/target track"). Sometimes I end up changing LOBL/LOAL accidentally as well. Perhaps a longer delay to activate long press would improve things. I thought the cannon grouping has improved a lot based on this vid? Haven't flown the Apache in a while. Just discovered the Ka-50 which I find to be more efficient of the two as of now.

3 buttons to use the AI command rose? Doesn't look right. Are buttons 3 & 4 modifiers? If so, why do you need two modifiers? The long/short presses are a bit finicky at times. Doesn't help to have 2 buttons more to press. Btw, you can fire HFs as pilot too.

+10

1 year later... Just wondering, will this ever be fixed? It's already a working thing in modules like the Huey.

Takeoff -> The cyclic should be a little down-left and rudder halfway left and raise collective slowly to observe response and counter gently. (You can’t take off with controls centered as it will yaw right due to rotor torque and slight tendency to roll right. But I am guessing you know that already.) Speed -> Yeah surprisingly the Apache isn’t very fast as some might expect. Max cruise speed about 130 IIRC depending. Wobble -> Current FM does seem top heavy with a roll or “capsize” tendency. Watch out for those unexpected rolls. If it happens just complete the roll 360 assuming you have enough altitude. Not sure if the real aircraft behaves this way. Hover-> There is no magic hover mode/button. You have to get trimmed and stable below 5knts and activate ATT hold and ALT hold. The latter will be available soon.

Your roll left momentum carried you to the point of no return. Unexpected 360 rolls happen quite often with the Apache in its current state. It seems to have this top heavy “boat capsize” tendency. Quite annoying and I can’t imagine the real aircraft being this way.

The Huey and Hind are easier to fly. The greatest is the Ka50 - in a 5min trial first flight I could land it twice! and I am quite new to helos. But the Apache was actually my first ever helo. Give it some patience and time. It is quite flyable really. Yeah it has some issues when you take it to the edge of its current FM and the SCAS sometimes does strange things - I personally find it rocks (rolls) like a boat and dolphins (pitching up/down) too much, even with curves and saturation adjustments. But it's EA so there is hope still. Yeah the weapons and target acquisition concepts can be a bit confusing at first. But there is lots here on the forum that have been discussed concerning these, so take your time.

Nope. At the moment we only have ATT hold activated at 5 knts and below to help with hover. But you have to be stable and trimmed first. Works well for IGE hover, more tricky with OGE hover esp if you are transitioning from flight and if the SCAS decides to 'disagree'.

Not a pilot just user impression/feedback - Yeah I find the Apache top heavy and so it tends to ‘capsize’ like a boat. Pendular motion (when it happens) seems excessive like it has too much energy and needs some damping. The SCAS does some odd things to fight you at times. Fly it safe and level it’s ok. Do more demanding stuff and it sometimes rolls 360. OGE hover from enroute speed can sometimes be all over the place and I can’t understand what the SCAS is trying to do. So I use FTR fwd hold down to 'tame' it. Not so with the Huey, that’s my only other helo comparison. So basically in the sim world, I find for now, the Huey more stable and 'logical' in flight controls compared to the Apache. Can’t imagine if that’s the case IRL. Also, most Apache vid tutorials demo safe level flying and hover from ground with ATT hold, and show that it's all working nicely. Would be nice to see tutorials that are a little more in-depth in testing the system 'cos I think that's where some of us run into issues and have these questions.

FTR fwd long (held >3 secs) also moves the SCAS (green symbols) to your controls position. Useful when you want it to stop fighting your control inputs. ATT hold helps with hover when engaged at 0-5knts and maintains velocity when engaged between 6-40knts (works at greater than 40knts too). But you need to be trimmed and stable first in both cases). When ATT hold (velocity) is used with a slight bank angle, you will just go in circles and possibly descend.