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Yes that should be it, unfortunately "Springless with FFB" pedals don't really exist, no not sure how that would work as a setting. The settings in the Apache make much more sense. (And seem to work)

Not what Im asking at all. Yes pedals could be trimmed, but this did not work with springless pedals. (And frankly worked terribly with spring pedals) What I'm asking is whether there is an option like in the Apache, where you can set the option to set pedal trim to where your pedals are currently, so spring-less friendly? This could get around the YAW AP Problem in that whenever you move your pedals, then trim, the YAW AP would automatically be set to that new heading, and would adjust the torque based on this new heading. I guess will have to try and see for myself when I get the time, the last time I tried it YAW AP ON did not work at all with Springless pedals.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes you are absolutely correct. Sometimes it registers the turn correctly, sometimes it enables the YAW AP nowhere near where you want it. It's a real mess and it's ridiculous that not since the release of the HIND has has anyone looked at this issue seriously. To me this is a bigger issue than the "trim issues" of the Apache (which is just user error for the most part) and no one (on the english forums at least) has even acknowledged that this is an issue. *edit* Maybe this was fixed and not communicated? It's been a while since I've flown the Hind and this is the main reason why it's in the hangar. Has the Hind recieved the wonderful Trimming options that the Apache has? For example I would like to be able to fly with the YAW AP on AND trim the pedals the same way that it is possible in the Apache. (I have springless pedals)

He is probably talking about that when you are flying with the YAW AP channel on all the time, when you are doing coordinated turns and returning to a new course because of the way that the AP interrupt is modeled in the DCS Mi24p, when you release pressure on the pedals the helicopter rarely remains on the heading you want it to be. So corrections are needed on the pedals. It bothers me a lot as well.

Just as an aside remark. Running out of memory should not be happening in any app, if the app works with the minimum of listed memory, then if it is indeed running out of memory that for all and effects and purposes means that you are dealing with a memory leak. In programming terms that is called a bug. In most cases this results in crashes.

Do you mean that if you are already supersonic in the F14 when launching and flying down low, the missile should be performing much better than it currently is? Have you tested this?

I only have a trusty old MSFFB2 joystick, but I can tell you right now that regardless of the module you use and ESPECIALLY with helicopters: Force Feedback is a game changer. I would compare it to flying with or without VR. That's how much of an improvement it provides.

So....any news about when the rest of us who are on the fence can try the helicopter in the trial? Not asking for an exact date, but would really like to know whether it's coming while the Apache is still in 20% EA discount or not? Thanks in advance.

Bookmarked this thread for future reference. Will definitely be trying this out.

Wouldn't moving your stick and hitting press and release mess with the Apache SAS systems though? AFAIK (please correct me if im wrong) the SAS systems stabilize and try to hold your current trim either until their control authority is exceeded (10% if I remember correctly) or the trim button is pressed. So pressing the trim button down, disengages the SAS and then once you reach your desired new trim conditions releasing it engages the SAS again. Seems like while it wouldn't make any difference from a control input option, it should make a little bit of difference because of the SAS systems in the Apache.

The only thing that matters is the FOV of the system that took the video in the first place. FOV = Field of View You can get the same effect in DCS by zooming out. The way that zoom works in DCS is that it effectively widens or narrows your field of view.

Casmo seems to be fighting the trimmer mode, it appears that he has selected FFB mode in the special options despite not having FFB controls. I know he is an SME but what he is demonstrating is his technique for flying the DCS Apache, it's what he is comfortable with. I might be wrong about this but I don't think that's how he would be flying a real Apache.

I never said that you need to hold the trim button for every movement. Just that when you do trim, that you should use proper technique so as not to get into trouble. I guess I'm spoiled by my FFB stick, where it's just natural to hold down the trim button (in every chopper) so that the FFB motors "release" the stick.

Ask any Hind pilot, or better yet read the manual. The pedals feature microswitches which temporarily disable Heading Hold, but otherwise the YAW AP channel is on on the real bird all the time.

Redkite's video is just adding more confusion in to the mix. Not once did he demonstrate the proper technique to fly the Apache, which is HOLD the trim button, then move your flight controls, then RELEASE Trim. This is regardless of whether you have a 50$ grandma's joystick, or 2000$ worth of flight equipment stripped straight out of a real Apache. If you are moving your flight controls and then pressing and releasing trim, you will get into trouble for all the reasons that Redkite demonstrated in the video above.

That's not how it's used in the real Hind. Sorry, but you are wrong. The Hind if flown in real life with YAW AP on ALL THE TIME.

You are of course, correct. I guess with the popularity of the module, in a way it could even be expected.

Paging Dr. @Raptor9 , paging Dr. @Raptor9 we have an emergency! Stat!

I will try it when it's available in the trial. I was not arguing with you, I'm genuinely curious about your opinions. But you are incredibly rude. So I'm done with you too.

Just wait for the 14 day free trial and see for yourself. That's my plan. Hopefully it will be available sooner rather than later.

Yes I understand how trimming works in real and in DCS helicopters. My point was that unlike other helicopters you have SAS systems trying to keep it stable on it's last known trim, until SAS authority is reached. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here? Is it supposed to be different in the Apache for some reason? Why is trim reset something that is desireable in the Apache? @Hiob check out this thread. Even something as simple as taking off is very different in the Apache, compared to the Huey or the Hip, if you follow procedures correctly.

That's not what it does, according to people I spoke with the flight computer in the Apache is set up to keep the aircraft stable for the last known trimmed position. If the controls are moved (or aeordynamic conditons change enough) past the SAS limits then it will disengage completely until the trim button is pressed again. This is how it's supposed to work in the real Apache, and from what I've seen (it's extremely stable) this is how it works in the DCS Apache too. When flown correctly.

I think that a big part of the problem is that users are not used to the central position trimmer mode, but also that the Apache features a flight computer that is specifically set up to keep the Apache stabilized for the last trimmed position. This means that unlike helicopters like the Huey, which do not feature any kind of SAS at all, or the Mi24 which has a SAS channels which work in a very different way (and which most people don't even use properly) this leads to some very obvious user error. I find it very telling that people like Casmo, and other SMEs have no trouble with the trim options in the DCS Apache, despite not really using any kind of special hardware to fly it. I think a lot of people are making an elephant out of fly, simply because of their previous experiences in other DCS helicopters. Fly it like you are supposed to fly it (trim often, trim for pedal movements, trim, trim trim). Maybe I'm just talking out of my behind, I don't have the module yet, but I don't think the module is at fault in this case.

Yeah I just read that 2 minutes after I typed my post. Still, I'll believe it when I see it, Eagle Dynamics is known to be big on promises, and slow on deliveries.