WinterH

I've meant Redeye and SA-7 themselves with older manpads, as we don't have them in DCS right now. I do think they should be added into DCS, and if they were in there would be more of an argument for including Lipa. As for Lipa vs SA-9, yeah I'm curious as well, perhaps it would work against it. Did Ataka enter service in 80s? I always thought its main intented launch platform was Mi-28, which was in development in 80s, but its real service entry had to be many, many years later. I think of it as developed in 80s, entered service in 90s. I may be wrong though.

I think youtube can and do put ads on videos even if uploaders aren't monetizing them. So there may not be much to discuss here. Ads are annoying, but also a reality of our times

Guys as far as I know those early IR jammers were barely any effective against Redeye and Strela-2 (SA-7). None of which even exists in DCS. Any IR missile currently in DCS will go "yeah, right whatever" when you activate it, perhaps apart from R-3S/AIM-9B. It really isn't like we are going to be missing a lot with its omission, if at all. Perhaps they can add it later on if demand is high, and older MANPADS are added to sim (which they really should have long ago imo). But for now let's cut them some slack until the release. Same goes for the UPK-23 as we will have a GSh-30K on board. For any need of lighter dakka, GUV gunpods with 1x12.7mm YakB and 2x7.62mm GShG each remains an option. But I can see them adding UPK easily if it was used at least on foreign Mi-24Ps without any change of cockpit systems for it etc. 23x115 in DCS is barely effective against even the lighter armor in any case, tested recently myself, and even 12.7 penetrates things like BMP-1s more reliably. It would work better against infantry and light skin vehicles due to its decent HE payload but that's hardly anything that GSh-30K and rockets won't cover better anyway. Also since we will later on get Ataka missiles as well I don't think they are making a Soviet one, but rather a early Russian one.

I would also add Edge 540 mod by Virtual Air Racing Series if you are into crazy aerobatics/air racing experience. Finally there is an AH-6J flight model demo mod, which isn't as polished as some other high quality free mods like mentioned A-4, MB-339, and Edge 540, but is the only free helicopter experience so far. There's also one caveat about TF-51D, I wouldn't call it a fighter, because all its armament is stripped/disabled, so it is an unarmed Mustang. But it is full fidelity with clickable cockpit. While the Su-25T is fully combat capable, but doesn't have clickable cockpit. Some months ago I've made this thingie to help with people starting DCS on this very question: So if you want a longer answer about which one's good for what, which one has what features etc, feel free to watch It is slightly outdated though, Edge 540 wasn't released yet back then. Also a more advanced flight model is in development for A-4 as far as I know.

Is there any translation/summary available anywhere? I did watch it but, naturally didn't understand much of anything lol.

It's here, the way links work changed after forum engine update, so that would probably be why the link in first post here doesn't work.

LanceR, Bison, late J-7 variants, or an F-13. I'd get all of these. MiG-21 is one of the aircraft where you can't have enough versions modeled! Although, I can see LanceR and Bison being slightly on the difficult side to find needed information on, even though they are nearing end of their services. Or F-13 not selling enough to "where is the win button? what is this junk?" crowd. Well to be fair, even I wouldn't get F-13 full price. Magnitude have their hands full, with fixes/improvements for MiG-21, and development of F4U Corsair and F-8 Crusader. But I'd love Deka's next aircraft to be a late J-7. Or better yet, an earlier/late combo pack! A late J-7 is an interesting mix of old and new. It is lighter, more maneuverable, but has improved capabilities. The airframe, at least as a base, reverts back to oldie F-13 type one, but with changes. The canopy is even more bubble like, and windscreen is single piece, for overall much better visibility. Wing is enlarged, and is a cranked arrow type, and leading edge of root section is slatted, so it improves maneuverability. Nose cone is smaller than Bis, but houses a modern radar with look-down and air to ground capabilities.

Picking just one is simply not possible for me. The ones I'd like seeing are: - Bf-109E-4/b,E-7/b,F-4,G-2 - Fw-190G and/or F (which may or may not be coming from ED) - Bf-110, probably G series with a multitude of ground attack options - A6M2 and/or A6M5 - Ki-43 - Aichi D3A - SBD Dauntless - F6F, a mid or late war variant - Spitfire I & II - Hurricane (ideally both a Battle of Britain fighter, and later war attacker, but former is more important) - A B-25 or A-26, with rockets and guns for direct attack capability in addtion to level bombing - Ju-88A4 - Ju-87D-5 and G-2, although a B variant could be ok too if a Battle of Britain set was implemented. Still, I'd prefer later ones to serve as an Axis side ground attacker of sorts. - P-40, I'd prefer one of the Mediterranean veteran variants, but any mid war variant would be cool - If we get to Eastern front side of things, IL-2M, mid and late war variants of Yak-9, Yak-3 would be cool. Same goes for Pe-2. - Fw-190A-4 - Spitfire V Some other Japanese planes like Ki-84, Ki-61, Ki-100, and N1K2 would also be cool but I think neither documents nor an airworthy example survive for those Though I think there is at least a museum piece Ki-100. Aside from a few, you may have realized my wishes are mostly mid to early war variants. I'd say we have enough late war modules available, early-mid war fighters are usually matched closer and are lighter/nicer to throw around, so would be cool to get some of them available in DCS!

It is a lot easier the other way around, list of non-clickable cockpits: - Su-25T and Su-25 - MiG-29 (currently, all versions) - Su-27, Su-33, and J-11A - F-15C - A-10A (only the A is not clickable) All other flyable aircraft modules are clickable.

So does just about everyone who considers the generation classification to be a thing. IMO, aside from the emphasis on agility, other common things that define 4th gen goes like: - Improved cockpit instruments with HUDs etc - Focus on improved situational awareness: quick acquisition modes for dogfights, much better view out of canopy etc - TWR close to, or greater than 1

So.... here goes: This is the footage of me testing it. BTW, just to clarify, while I often lament the lacking of AI in DCS units, this is about only damage done by rounds to infantry for me at this stage. AI is another whole another story, but this can be fixed a lot easier in my opinion.

Just tested it. Will try to put it in a quick and short video, but to write a few takeaways: - It takes 5-6 rounds of 7.62x54R to put an insurgent infantry down at 1 km distance, tested from GShG on Mi-8 and PKT on BTR-80 - It takes freakin' 9 rounds of 7.62x51 to do the same at same distance. That difference doesn't seem right. Tested with M240 on Stryker and M1A2. - Personally I would expect a solid hit from either on a vital area to be enough, but keeping in mind that damage model on infantry inside a flight sim might need to be somewhat simplified, I'd be mostly ok if it's 1-3 max. Just to clarify, we are discussing effects of hits, not the ability to hit a pinpoint target at any given distance. So what I mean above are 5-6 hits and 9 hits with respective ammo types. Velocities of PKT, M240, and GShG should be within ballpark of eachother.

Wouldn't be the first... F-16 and AH-64 were teased with WIP cockpit pictures in 2008 I think. Apparently full fidelity Su-27 was in consideration at some point before getting a big 'ol "nope". F-4E, which still infuriates me is another example. Since 2013, the date I got into DCS, I think have heard AH-1 in dev, AH-1 not in dev cycle happen like 3-4 times. Seeing as an Apache is coming, I wouldn't expect to see Cobra from ED for a few years at least, and Kate's response about Cobra seem to say just that. But on the positive side, it may still be a consideration for a few years from now.

Looking at some bullet mass and velocity figures, and a ballistic energy calculator online, it looks like 7.62x51 at 1000 yards (somewhat less than a kilometer, but not a lot) is still more than 10 times higher than a 9mm out of an MP-5 barrel point blank... Now, my test might be inaccurate, but even if we assume my result is wrong by a factor of 10, it would still be as powerful as a point blank shot from an SMG with 9mm. As far as I know, maximum effective range figures are meant to show what is considered maximum distance where reasonably accurate aimed fire can be achieved, not necessarily the maximum distance where the projectile is still deadly. So yeah, I would think 2 rounds tops, maybe 3 against a super-human dude on a lucky day, would be more reasonable to expect at that range. Edit: and this should apply almost universally to 7.62 guns in DCS apart from AKs on infantry. 7.62 NATO and Russian 7.62x54R are fairly close ballistics wise, Russian round is a bit more powerful I think, but not hugely so. Even 12.7x108 from Mi-8's YaKB seem to take 2-3 hits to take and infantry down from those ranges last I tried. Will test again later if I can.

This, exactly this ^ I doubt it works that way TBH... may be it can be negotiated for a price, but I wouldn't count on it. Which would be damn ***** shame. If we don't get the F-4E that is relevant to a great bumber of airforces all over the world, with all te bells and whistles like leading edge slats, targeting pods, LGBs, TV guided bombs, Shrikes, Mavericks, and the actual gun, we may as well not get a Phantom as far as I'm concerned. Let's sacrifice the coolest and most fitting version, so that we can sightsee from a boat. Edit: anyway, this thread was about "secret module", which is revealed to be the Apache. And that's cool. Apache is a good module alright. Guess we're kinda derailing it with F-4 discussion, but oh well... it IS a thing worth the discussion! Perhaps on another thread...

I'll keep the colorful expletives and adjectives to myself then but... wow... they were doing literally the best variant to make, of an aircraft that would add a lot to sim, and probably also sell like hotcakes, and now it's "probably gonna be done by a 3rd part and variant is uncertain". Just wow.

Where did you get that? Was it said by someone from ED?

I always hoped to get Cobra first, as I felt like they may not be inclined to do it at all, or do it way down the line if Apache comes. But honestly, I'm fine with Apache regardless. Cool helicopter, and should give us a lot to do with it. An AH-1W or F would be a quite analogous playmate for Mi-24P but, AH-64D would be the perfect teammate with OH-58D anyway. More helos, the better, looks like we rotor-lovers have quite a few things to look forward to. Still hope we'll eventually get the Cobras too though.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Jaguar and Bucc. Would like them for sure. Also Super Etendard. Tornado would be cool too of course. And G91!

I, for one, applaud the initiative to give us 4 versions, some of them being quite different between them. I am ok for however long it takes. We can use many aircraft with different versions in DCS.

Things I'd really love: - Su-17/20/22 - Su-24 - MiG-27 (preferrably one of the later variants) - MiG-25 (ideally both interceptor and recon bomber/sead versions) - J 35 Draken - A-6E (TRAM or SWIP) - ED getting their act together and finish what Belsimtek started: a well upgraded 80s F-4E - F-111 - Mirage III and/or V - Bf-109E-4 and/or E-7 - Sptifire I & II to go with the one above - Hurricane as well of course - Ju-87, preferrably late D and G, but B would be ok too I guess - Ki-43 - Ki-84 (don't know if enough documents survive though ) - A6M5 - F6F - F4F (Wildcat, not the Phantom ) - Some über upgraded oldies like MiG-21Bison or LanceR, F-5S or EM etc, or Mirage ROSE upgrades. - Atlast Cheetah and/or IAI Kfir (there is a Kfir module candidate under works, hope they will become a good 3rd party and pull it off) - Full fidelity A-4E and/or M with EFM and SDK access for guided weapons too (love the community mod though) - A late J-7 variant - Also a late Q-5 variant - AH-1W, but AH-1F would be cool too - A crazy aerobatics aircraft like Extra 300 etc Things I'm not clamoring for crazily, but would love seeing and flying: - Su-15 - Folland Gnat, yeah, both in trainer and fighter versions please - Return of a (properly done) Hawk T1A - A-1 - F-100 - An older MiG-21 perhaps - F-105 (though this one probably also suffers from documents destroyed syndrome ) - AH-64, either A or D would be fine - Denel Rooivalk, because why not? But don't see this one happening, or being commercially viable - Pe-2, I just like the thing! - A Bf-110 with decent attack ordnance capabilities to go along with heavy-fightering capabilities - A late Yak like Yak-9U and/or Yak-3 - Modern trainer/light combat aircraft like Yak-130, T-50 etc - Mirage 2000D - Some post-war crazy props like Bearcat and/or Sea Fury Things I would like, but don't see happening realistically: - Any Flanker or Fulcrum variants with more modern capabilities - J-10 or JH-7 - Mi-28 - Ka-52 - Maybe also Rafale, just because it's so gorgeous Edit, and the things I just really don't care for at this point: - More late 90s and above bluefor 4th gen and above fighters, helicopters are ok though - More flying computer screen galleries

Ahhh... yeah... right, touché

That's a pretty huge stretch of an argument though. We have a grand sum of 1 red attack heli, compared to about half a million blue fighters We also have a pretty functional F-15C with a great flight model, and a mostly adequate weapons/systems model. Also a full fidelity F-15E is in works. We have no Mi-24 of any sort. So yeah, I don't see how this example follows. Like I have said, it would be super sad if F-4E would get the short stick once again for another low hanging fruit module, especially one that already in sim at FC3 level, and a full fidelity module of another version is coming as well. Or indeed many other things that can be done. Would it be cool eventually? Yeah, but there's a lot more that would be nicer to add before that in my opinion. Now, if it was an F-15A, or earlier F-15C, I could be interested, as I tend like oldie cold war birds more, and also it'd make for a more interesting 80s matchup with some other existing birds. But I'd be in the minority for it, and I can see majority stomping their feet at the suggestion.

My current completely unfounded and random prediction is Mi-24 in feb-march, and OH-58 in April-ish. I am more interested in Mi-24 myself, been way too iconic for me personally since I was a teen. But for people who want more advanced systems and weapons (even if arguably less of them), I guess OH-58 will be more interesting. I will eventually get them both, but Hind first for me personally! Looking forward to getting two new very cool choppers after us rotorheads go through a module drought for so long! Probably though, most users will get them both in the end. They are both quite iconic in their own ways even for non-helo-nerds. And for helo-nerds like us, most will get them both probably.

NOPE! Would much prefer either something older, or something at least different. We already at least have FC3 F-15C, an F-15E is coming, sim is getting chockfull of later 4th gen and more so the blue fighters. Honestly I'd sooner buy another aerobatics plane instead. We still have that amazing late F-4E that got canned for Meh-16 Boring Falcon not taken back into development... another low hanging fruit before it would be... sad.