wilbur81

Hmm, I guess I'm just dense. When Maj. Boswell says, "a high instantaneous turn rate," I guess I just assume he means a high instantaneous turn rate.

Is this THE Mover!? Mr. Lemoine, Sir? If so, I'll shut up right now. If you're an imposter-Mover, take your statement up with Major Boswell and The Fighter Pilot Podcast: https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/musing/it-depends/ PS - Are you referring to the "Power" comment or the "Sustained Turn-rate" comment? The Hornet technically has more power than the Viper (35,400lbs of thrust vs. the Viper's 29,500), but there's that 'ol weight/drag thing. If not the power comment, are you suggesting that the Hornet has a higher sustained and instantaneous turn rate than the Viper? I'll let the 100,000 Viper lovers on this forum come after you now.

Those clouds (and the new terrain[s] below them) are pretty impressive indeed!

"Growing and Hungry" applied to the Heatblur team partnering with ED is DEFINITELY good news.

I almost didn't even see that A-6 with the INCREDIBLE looking Marianas map below. Good grief, Nvidia/AMD... get your GPU stock act together!

Sorry, ED Moderators. We've gotten off topic. For my part: In summary, I started this thread out of curiosity after having enjoyed Hasard Lee's video about the top speed of the Viper and trying to reconcile the video with my in-game findings (which don't match up). The thread has been marked "correct-as-is" and I think we have had some good discussion here about the reasons for this. As to where the thread has gone, turn rates and FM stuff have their own well established threads elsewhere... so go there if you want to talk about things other than Hasard's video and the blk 50's top speed. If ED gets the Viper and the Hornet as realistic as possible in the end (which of course they will :-)), the Viper will have more power and a higher sustained turn rate than the Hornet and the Hornet will have a higher instantaneous turn rate and better maneuverability at low speeds and high AoA than the Viper. Full stop.

Agreed on all counts, and good observation. There's a nice little write up that pertains to the Viper vs Hornet 'debate' on the Fighter Pilot Podcast site by Trevor "Boat" Boswell. It's a good little read. Here's a pertinent excerpt, but the whole article is really worth the read:

Nice! Good catch.

Hmm, I could just do that with the F10 map and the ruler, no?

Quick question: Does tacview actually give an accurate indication of when a 120C goes active?

Well said!

I whole-heartedly agree. This is actually one of the reasons I prefer the Hornet to the Viper (I own both modules and love both jets). The Hornet's lack of an AOA limitation like the Viper's FLCS really makes the Hornet feel more organic in its maneuvering. With that said, the Hornet will always feel like it's 'on rails' compared to the Tomcat since the Hornet is full fly by wire. The fly by wire jets are just more stable. This is one reason why I so wish the F-15C would be done eventually (I have ZERO interest in the Strike Eagle and will not purchase it when it comes out in 3013 A.D. ) The Eagle's CAS makes it slightly more sophisticated in the flight control than the Tomcat-B, but more 'lively' than the Hornet or Viper...with the need to not yank and bank too hard. But back on topic: The Hornet FM is really special and it is HANDS DOWN my first choice when it comes to the GUNZO fight... 350kts and slower it is a true champ in air combat.

Just flew the first mission (show of force flyovers) and I like it so far. Looking forward to what's to come. Good work, guys.

Hornet for the win.

Yeah, I played around with it a bit back in the old LOMAC days. I've heard some folks indicate that it has a FPS performance hit now. Have you ever encountered that? Sorry, off topic now.

This is true... And the real Hornet bests the Viper in terms of nose authority, AoA, and low speed maneuvering.

"Who does that?" Haha! You haven't spent much time on Growling Sidewinder's public server I guess. But seriously, good thoughts and discussion, Tobias and TBT!

for sure. You're right. As to my other question about payload speed: I achieved Mach 1.5 in level flight at 35K ft. starting at m 0.90... all starting with full internal fuel, 3 bags, 6 amraams, and the TGP. Again, maybe the Viper really can overcome all that drag. If accurate, that's impressive to say the least!

Yeah, I'm mostly just trying to understand a). The test-flight of Hasard compared to what we actually have in DCS. It's possible, of course, that he was flying a small-mouth and not a GE-129. b). How accurate the current Viper's performance is with a full load of ordinance. To be able to exceed mach 1.55+ in level flight with two-bags and six AMRAAMS seems, well, incredible. But I have ZERO security clearance. That may be telling.

Good info. What would you say, then, about Hasard's test flight results?

Really? Also, an F10 view at time of missiles going active would be useless because, while I kept my same heading (towards but with a slight offset to the bandit) throughout the flight of both missiles for the sake of my test, the A.I. aircraft immediately began to evasively maneuver so the distances from missile to targets (his to mine and mine to his were not equal. (maybe that affects when a 120C goes active?). Dundun was right in his comment above, this really needs a tacview treatment. But you could try this yourself if you care to. As you can see from my screenshot, it is a very simple scenario to setup.

Hey, fellas. Many of you have probably enjoyed Hasard's YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riZYJ8lP3nE) as have I. I was watching his "Clean Viper Max Speed Run" video today and began to think that this would be a good time to test my suspicions that our current (albeit very W.I.P., O.B., and ever-improving) Viper is, frankly, too fast. Either because it's overpowered or drag isn't fully implemented yet. These suspicions began when I was being engaged by a Viper with 2 bags and 6 AMRAAMS and flying level (from a take-off start with full fuel) at Mach 1.5 and 36,000ft (see external screenshot). And yes, though I love and own the Viper (and have BBI's old 1:18th scale Viper hanging above me as I type), I'm one of those guys who's also been shot down from 25 miles away by a Six-AMRAAM-Two-Bags-toting Viper flying at Mach 1.6, so I'm not entirely unbiased about it's realism being accurate as possible when I'm at the wrong end of one. It just seems like our early access, work in progress Viper needs some dialing back. But I could certainly be entirely wrong as the Viper is a beast and ED does their homework and then some. Anyway... I tried Hasard's Max Speed run to the best of my ability given the few details he gives in the video (you can find a nice write up about it with these details as well if you'd like to try it yourself - https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/this-is-what-its-like-to-take-an-f-16-to-the-absolute-limit/) Details of his flight by his own account: - 7000 lbs of fuel - Clean jet, no pylons - Climb up to 25K to begin test... then, Mil power at 25k ft to 0.95 m and then full AB - Begin ramp up to 50K and, after achieving mach 1.4 , then back down to 35K - He achieved M. 1.9 in a steepened dive Now, I very much understand this is just his account, so this isn't necessarily mil-spec documentation (though he certainly speaks in detail about altitudes and speeds). I also don't know which motor he had (our GE or the Pratt & Wimpy) or how cold it was in South Korea that day, how steep his climbs and dives were, etc. With that said, my humble test has our DCS Viper quite a bit more powerful/fast (see screens for results and compare them to the video or article... and/or test the mission yourself and post your own results). Enjoy. HasardLeeTEST.miz

Purchased yesterday and really excited to try it! Thanks, Greg.

Purchased.

Precisely and well put. I was definitely thinking the same thing... and ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz