Is this a dead module?

I am not normally in this kind of mood where I am extremely critical but today I have reached my limit with this module and have to make a complaint thread.

The harrier was released about 9 months ago.

The CCIP does not work properly.

Auto (CCRP) does not work properly (the ASL does not move correctly and is basically unusable)

The APU doesn't work and the rest of the other power/fuel systems are not implemented or at least - not realistically.

TGP -not working.

Weapon parameter UFC not implemented.

Weapon interval and ripple quantity panel not working (!!!!!!!)

INS not finished.

And plenty more but lets be honest these are the real deal breakers.

I am the guy that always defends this module but your in ability to even reply to the very well sourced thread about the CCIP pipper and many other issues.

Sorry but can you please sort this module out? At the moment it is sub-flaming cliffs level of simulation and it is meant to be a 'DCS' module.

We are your consumers and I feel like some kind of explanation might be due.

:cry:

That's it, I got it all out.

edit: inb4 muh early access.

Early Access... Sorted.

Are you kidding? There are patches quite often to the harrier. Have some patience.

Are you kidding? There are patches quite often to the harrier. Have some patience.

Here comes the one word reply crowd.

When was the last update of any kind of significance?

Early Access... Sorted.

Sorted? As in you have sorted my criticism or me out?

Sheer arrogance - I provided a list of just the basics that have been skipped over since release, including many module-breaking ones and you have a little phrase that addresses nothing.

Are you kidding? There are patches quite often to the harrier. Have some patience.

You must have been a real star in debate club. Early access gives the implication that the module is still in development. The only updates this product has received in the last three months is fixing a single switch and an update to the font of the UFC..... a font update.

DEAD module.....sorted.

Welcome to DCS, don’t buy early access products if you want everything to work perfect.

I have every module except the new Yak, I understand how early access works - thanks.

I don't have a problem with slow dev time - I have a problem when the devs are unable to acknowledge problems in the basic concept of how the systems actually work.

Early access also implies that it is in active development - no real updates or fixes in 3 months or so at this rate, if I'm wrong - prove me wrong.

I have to agree with you, that the development has been slow, but I dont mind waiting a bit ... in the meantime I’m having a blast with the F-18 and so I just put the Harrier on the hangar while it gets better.

If your expectation is a complete and fully functional module, you should not buy during the early the access period. Early access is for those individuals that don't mind missing, and incorrect features.

You say "I provided a list of just the basics that have been skipped over since release, including many module-breaking ones and you have a little phrase that addresses nothing."

Your list is irrelevant due to the module being in early access. Early access by definition means it has NOT been released. Furthermore, I fly the module with regularity, there are no "module-breaking ones". That is a clear falsehood.

You add, "When was the last update of any kind of significance?" when if you have been paying attention, at all, you know this module has been updated regularly. Clearly not to your satisfaction.

You're welcome for the additional verbosity on the subject, but you and I both know my original answer summed the situation up quite well.

As much as it pains oneself to label the module as dead or forgotten about I do fear it is quickly becoming the case. Update after update I see semi-functional additions being made and less than a handful, if any, bugs being quashed. Some of which have existed since release and shouldn't take anywhere near this time to fix.

Take the RWR sounds for instance. I find it most odd that after almost a year RAZBAM is yet to fix this essential feature that comes without issue to every other module. But amateur DCS players managed to work it out amongst themselves. This is to say the very least, shameful.

Another example could be the placement of the dumb bombs and rocket pods, they clip through the pylon. See this image for reference. This can be fixed in less than 5 minutes by editing the AV8BNA.lua located in CoreMods\aircraft\AV8BNA and going to line 426 and beyond. Why am I able to figure this out and fix it but a professional development team cannot?

Yet another example would be the bombing interval programming. Since release this has been non-functional. Again I don't understand how such an essential and basic feature like this can be shelved in place of features like the VREST page. I do question who is making these decisions?!

Early access is not an argument for these failings. 2 of the issues I've listed have been diagnosed and fixed by the players themselves.

I could list these until the sun goes down and comes back up again. I don't want this to be seen as a crushing morale blow to RAZBAM. You've got an excellent module on your hands but you must remember to walk before you can run. Implementation of new features should not be a priority over fixing basic issues.

My $0.02 on the matter.

Oh, look, the drama club is back in session =)

When a module launches into early access, you should expect it's going to be at least another year or two finishing up. The F-18 just launched missing most its systems also, I wouldn't expect to see it 'finished' for at least another year or so.

Remember: The A-10C I believe had 3+ years of development plus an extensive (at this point) life cycle afterward. It's 'finished'. All this other stuff has mostly come out into an EA form in just the last year or two. There's quite a bit of Dev cycle left on most of them.

Also, if devs replied to every concern thread, they'd never get anything done. That the module is not moving as quickly as you wish is understandable but ranting about it isn't going to make it happen faster.

It's not like Razbam hasn't had about a year to fix those issues. I don't know what's worse--the possibility that ((((Razbam)))) is incapable of fixing the module due to incompetency, or the likelihood that they took the money and ran with no genuine intentions of ever fixing a broken module beyond the occasional quick-fix for a broken switch to maintain the illusion of muh early release.

Like Bernie Sanders said, NO REFUNDS

We also have to remember that while ED's F/A-18 early access has both ED and Belsimtek working on it, Razbam has only Razbam to work on the Harrier, and the Mirage, and modules they make for other sims.

On Razbam's Facebook, 7 days ago, they posted progress pics/info on the Harrier's INS system implementation. The module is still being worked on.

I don't have a problem with slow dev time - I have a problem when the devs are unable to acknowledge problems in the basic concept of how the systems actually work.

Looking at your posting history, you've bumped a CCIP bug report today, but otherwise haven't made any AV-8B bug reports or requested particular fixes, why the sudden urgency ?

Early access also implies that it is in active development - no real updates or fixes in 3 months or so at this rate, if I'm wrong - prove me wrong.

There's a sticky thread AV-8B N/A Update News that does that (proves you wrong).

I guess recent highlights would be:

• 1st August - Tarawa gets CIWS, improved lighting, OLS, etc. greatly improving Case 3 recovery's. Bug fixes
   
  
• 18th July - True/Magnetic option for bearings, waypoint offsets, improved EHSD course line, bug fixes.
   
  
• 5th July - Waypoint data entry and editing added. Bug fixes.
  

etc... etc... etc...

I guess I try to be a 'glass half full' type of guy, and you feel the 'glass is half empty', so we're not going to agree on the state of the module.

Razbam's FB page from the 9th August shows the INS alignment modes/pages are almost complete (I almost expected them to be in the latest Open Beta patch).

There’s getting to be a dedicated group of people who are interested in nothing more than hating on Razbam. It’s almost as bad as the armchair engineers coming to destroy polychop any time they do literally anything, despite most people really liking the Gazelle.

Some of these complaints in the OP are massive generalizations. The targeting pod is NOT broken. Not fully functional, but not broken, I use it all the time with great success. And they literally just posted an update on the INS system. It’s “technically” kind of working already, it’s just simplified and always aligned. This is changing soon, I already practice the procedure every time I fire up the Harrier so I will be ready.

To Razbam, if you guys see this, don’t be discouraged. I know I can speak for myself and many other pilots I fly with that your doing great work in our eyes. I recognize your a small team, and that while I am anxious to see more updates come through I am happy to wait and enjoy the product be as great as it can be. If I could help in your development process (I can’t since I’m not a coder, just a software tester) I would, because I want to see you guys succeed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the issue here, as with many other modules, (and much of the game community in general) is that "Early Access" and "Beta" is being used way too loosely to denote products that were not ready for release, but cannot afford to sit in development any longer.

Whether or not this is the right business decision to make is one for legitimate debate. However, what I think is worthy of debate is just how long a module can remain "in beta" or "in early access" before it begins to resemble indefinite development. Pushing a product as "Beta" implies quality control is still taking place, that of which cannot be adequately done with a limited test environment. But hiding behind a "Beta" label for months or in some cases, years, as a way to justify unfinished functionality is disingenuous.

It's worth asking if these games and modules wouldn't be funded if such practices wern't undertaken, but I think it's worth asking the game community in general if there isn't a better way to set expectations on what "early access" means.

I think it's pretty clearly stated when a module is in early access, as it has been said before... if you don't want early access modules, don't buy them. You can wait until it is fully complete before purchasing.

Some of us prefer early access, it allows us to learn systems as they are introduced. If it weren't for EA we still wouldn't have our hands on the hornet or the harrier.

It's looks like Razbam moved to their next module!

Soon on preorder ;)

P.S. seriously, I hope that Razbam are taking time to learn how the AV8b works in order to improve realism of the module.

Sent from my MiG-29S (9-13S) using Tapatalk

Try telling M-2000C pilots that it's only a matter of time before it's done. Released status...not done...nor is it likely ever to be. ...But hey, it's great to see those photos of the F-15E ejection seat...

I do have to say though that I've been complaining about not being able to dim the HUD for a long time now and they slid that in without saying so on the last patch. The cynic is me says it's only because they were working on the night tarawa lighting and decided they needed it instead of listening to the community and this would be corroborated by the fact the Mirage still can't dim it's HUD, but it is what it is.

Personally, I'm not going to pay for early access from them again fwiw.

I also feel the pace of fixes in the Harrier is too slow. I have owned it for a while now, and it is noticeable how much faster the updates to the F18 are happening and how much better they are being communicated.

Razbam have failed to publish their update plan for this module. I am sure many more of us would be more tolerant if they gave us some certainty about what is being fixed and when.

I also feel the pace of fixes in the Harrier is too slow. I have owned it for a while now, and it is noticeable how much faster the updates to the F18 are happening and how much better they are being communicated.

 

Razbam have failed to publish their update plan for this module. I am sure many more of us would be more tolerant if they gave us some certainty about what is being fixed and when.

Comparing elephant to a fly lol.

If you really want to compare the entire ED company + Belsimtek to Razbam during summer season as equals there is something wrong in your logic and way of thinking.

Current stuff that they're working on (INS) and so on, takes long ass time to code.

You whining about it won't change that.

Try telling M-2000C pilots that it's only a matter of time before it's done. Released status...not done...nor is it likely ever to be. ...But hey, it's great to see those photos of the F-15E ejection seat...

You do realize that the people who make 3D models, and who then make textures for those models, are totally different teams/people than those who code avionics, flight dynamics, etc., right?

You do realize that the people who make 3D models, and who then make textures for those models, are totally different teams/people than those who code avionics, flight dynamics, etc., right?

Yes. Can you tell me how many people are coding and what they're working on day to day? Do you know if any of them wear different hats within the company? Can you tell me why the mirage is in it's current state? Did you read anything else or just jump on the, quite obvious, quip at the end?

They slow roll updates / leave things unfinished. As a customer I don't care about anything else. I'm merely stating that the cost/benefit analysis for me is to not pay for early access again. I've given every 3rd party developer a shot with early money and now am reacting to the products I've received. Lot's of airplanes in the hanger...

Things are: do you prefer to have an unfinished module, that will be completed in a reasonable amount of time, and pay full price for it to help developers keep going on or not have it at all?

Probably if RAZBAM couldn't release their products in EA we would never see them. No AV8, no Mirage.

I have nothing against this strategy. But this doesn't mean that they can disappoint their customers. They have to fulfill their promises or they will lose their reputation over time.

If INS is so complicated to simulate, assign more resources to it and it will be completed faster.

Things are going this way because there are no other competitors on this market, so a company can afford to take ages to finish a product.

Well, if they will release F-15 in EA without completing AV8 or Mirage2000 (one of the two)... i'm sorry but i will keep my money in the pocket. Because this means that they are just rushing for $$$ and that this is a not sustainable business.