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JSOW/JDAM attack 8 targets - update.


deathbysybian

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You can now store up to 8 targets in TOO mode with the tpod without typing the GPS coords for each one.

 

Leave QTY unspecified/none.

Set each station to TOO mode by stepping through them.

Enter jdam config screen, mission screen.

Designate targets:

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

Step

Find next target

 

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

Step

Find next target

 

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

Step

Find next target

 

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

 

Change to T002

Step

Change to T002

Step

Change to T002

Step

Change to T002

 

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

Step

Find next target

 

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

Step

Find next target

 

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

Step

Find next target

 

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

 

Complete.

 

Tip: You can verify the target is undesignated on the HUD. If the target is designated a direction and distance indicator will show up in A2G mode. When undesignated those will be cleared.

 

Warning!

If at any point you forget to undesignate and either step to or release weapons, all the hardpoints will be updated with the current target and you'll have to start over. (This might be inaccurate)

What I am sure of is if you have not undesignated the target, when you release or press step the current target will overwrite the one you are stepping to.

If you see the diamond target-designation on the HUD you have not undesignated the target and if you release they will all go to wherever the diamond was.

So also, don't hit waypoint designate as that will update the target designation again.

 

You can validate the targets are unique by stepping through them. (I tend to press undesignate a few extra times before I step through them)

If all went well, you'll see the GPS coordinates cycle for each target.

 

Now, you can release the first four (which will attack targets in T002)

Switch all the stations to T001 by stepping through them.

Release the remaining four bombs.

 

You can switch up the order if you like.

For example you could...

 

Designate targets:

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

T0002

Find next target

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

Step

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

T0002

Find next target

TDC Depress

Undesignate/NoseWheelSteering

Step

 

etc

 

The target (T001 or T002) will be wherever you left off.

The point being you can populate T001 on all the stations, then populate T002, or you can populate T001, and T002 before stepping to the next station.

 

Note: T001 and T002 are not the two different positions on the rack, they are just two memory slots. More like "Plan A vs Plan B"

Either side of the rack can use either memory slot. It works like this:

Hardpoint 1: Memory Slot 1 / Memory Slot 2

Hardpoint 3: Memory Slot 1 / Memory Slot 2

When you designate a target (or release to a target) it uses the currently selected memory slot on the current hard-point.

etc.

 

The only additional feature, which would be really nice, is if you could slave the tpod to the stations currently stored target so as you stepped through them it showed on camera what was targeted.

 

Aiming tip: When you are far out and trying to find the targets you can use way-point designate to mark the target fairly accurately on the SA page. Assuming there is a way-point where the targets are.

Then you can slew the camera over to the way-point. The SA page has a small dot on the SA page that shows where it's pointed. So all you have to do is slew the dot to the way-point target on the SA page. You should be in the ballpark.

A manual way to perform "slave to way-point"

Again, don't do this if you have already designated targets as pressing way-point designate is basically the same thing as pressing tdc depress and marking a target. If you do, press undesignate again. Your current hardpoint/memory slot has been updated with the value from way-point.

 

Another aiming method:

If you have at least one HARM you can put it in TOO mode.

If any radiation is found you can use trial and error (tdc depress) to slew the tpod target to the harm target on the hud.


Edited by deathbysybian
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The lack of hud indication of where the tgp is looking at and as you mentioned the inability to slave sensors to one sensor makies this a hassle for me.

Went on a night mission today, could not locate the targets on the tgp, lots of searching and fiddling with the slew button. I could see them from outside view, put the flight marker on target location and recentre tgp with the cage /uncage button and could not see them.

Just Looking forward to the improvement coming to the tgp of the Hornet early next year.

 

Anyways, thanks for this detailed information.

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The lack of hud indication of where the tgp is looking at and as you mentioned the inability to slave sensors to one sensor makies this a hassle for me.

Went on a night mission today, could not locate the targets on the tgp, lots of searching and fiddling with the slew button. I could see them from outside view, put the flight marker on target location and recentre tgp with the cage /uncage button and could not see them.

Just Looking forward to the improvement coming to the tgp of the Hornet early next year.

 

Anyways, thanks for this detailed information.

 

Turn on the SA page. Assuming there is a waypoint where the target is, turn on waypoint designate.

 

This puts a small diamond on the SA page where the waypoint is. The targeting pod also has a small dot on the SA page. You can slew the dot to the waypoint diamond to get pretty close.

 

Failing that, get far enough away that you can bore-sight it, and designate the target as quick as possible, then veer away.

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Turn on the SA page. Assuming there is a waypoint where the target is, turn on waypoint designate.

 

 

 

This puts a small diamond on the SA page where the waypoint is. The targeting pod also has a small dot on the SA page. You can slew the dot to the waypoint diamond to get pretty close.

 

 

 

Failing that, get far enough away that you can bore-sight it, and designate the target as quick as possible, then veer away.

Roger that and wilco. Thanks a lot.

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Also, for the HUD, you can have the pod caged and then spam target designate and you will see the target diamond position get updated each time on the HUD. Can be useful when you know where to point the TGP. Do not forget to uncage the pod when it's looking where you want.

Workarounds, really, but we should have the slaving and HUD cue pretty soon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi deathbysybian,

 

THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED!

And yes, you said it!

It would be really nice, is if you could slave the tpod to the stations currently stored target so as you stepped through them it showed on camera what was targeted.

So it was before they changed the logic of the JDAM's.....

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Thx for that great step-by-step guide!

 

 

But are those steps neccesary due to wrong implementation by ED or is this the authentic behaviour (without the QTY-option or pressing undesignate after designating a target)?

 

 

Cannot imagine that a F/A-18C-pilot has to handle that huge amount of micromanagement for programming his JDAMs

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  • 2 weeks later...
The reason this seems hard to imagine for a real pilot to do, is probably because real pilots aren't doing simultaneous jdam drops on TOO.

 

They wouldn't, but that's a feasibility issue, the system behavior is mostly correct. The QTY part isn't authentic. I don't quite understand what he's described, but without selecting QTY and boxing the stations it won't release consent and will hang. A lot of shit happens between when you press the button and the weapon releases, and if something ain't right - such as MRI Fail, it's not coming off the wing. The Hornet won't actually drop jdam simultaneously. Quantity releases require minimum release interval of 300 ms. The feasibility of eight TOO targets is another matter. Bring back capability is poor in the Hornet, and it wouldn't be loaded with eight JDAMs unless you knew they were going.

 

ED is kinda between a rock and a hard place on the BRU-55A. It is much better now. JDAMs are missing a lot of features, but the fundamental behavior of how the - indeed the reason this trick works -- is right. TOO1 and TOO2 targets are weapon specific. Designating TOO1 transfers that target to the station, stepping to another jdam or undesignating current target doesn't erase the information from the weapon. It just selects another station, such that if you cycle back, that TOO will still be there. Unfortunately I'm not sure what a legacy hornet interface with BRU-55 looks like. I know it allowed individual targeting, but how the mission data and jdam format pages display stations with two stores I can't say. The E/F was different in how this was handled, so we'd need to find a relatively recent marine charlie pilot to know for sure.

just a dude who probably doesn't know what he's talking about

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There's got to a way to step between weapons instead of stations, I find it hard to believe we HAVE to use separate missions for weapons on the same rack in TOO or PP for that matter. Step functions for the AMRAAMs, for example are weapon dependent not station dependent.

 

I don't understand why it wouldn't be similar with JDAMs, which require a lot more input from the pilot. It seems like a simple L or R indication on the SMS page Box for the station would solve everything and make total sense. But who knows, There must have been an OFP change for BRU-55s that we're missing information on.


Edited by Wizard_03

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

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This method does not work. I tried for 3 hours and it doesn't matter if you use undesignate or not all station's get the exact same coordinates no matter how you do it with the TGP. Even trying a single station using TOO 1 and TOO 2 both JDAM's get the exact same coordinates.

 

EDIT: Actually this does seem to work on BETA but not on stable right now. So certainly an update there which is good I guess.


Edited by hawk4me
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This method does not work. I tried for 3 hours and it doesn't matter if you use undesignate or not all station's get the exact same coordinates no matter how you do it with the TGP. Even trying a single station using TOO 1 and TOO 2 both JDAM's get the exact same coordinates.

 

EDIT: Actually this does seem to work on BETA but not on stable right now. So certainly an update there which is good I guess.

 

 

it works on my stable version. did you press undesignate after the last designation, too?

 

 

or could you plz provide a track file?

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I don't even need to go through all 4 stations. On stable version i find target tdc depress to get coordinates hit undesignate then go to next target and tdc depress and undesignate. If i swap back to the first station the coordinates are the same as the last station i did. This happens with 2 or 4 stations on aircraft. It always uses the last tdc depress on all stations. On beta it works just fine using exact same method.

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I don't even need to go through all 4 stations. On stable version i find target tdc depress to get coordinates hit undesignate then go to next target and tdc depress and undesignate. If i swap back to the first station the coordinates are the same as the last station i did. This happens with 2 or 4 stations on aircraft. It always uses the last tdc depress on all stations. On beta it works just fine using exact same method.

 

just tested it here with my stable DCS.

 

8xJSOW-C or 4xJDAM (GBU-31). 100% hits on different targets while dropping them continuously after asigning (different) targets.

 

Works perfectly here. Do you have a wrong "undesignate" binding?

 

Do you see the vertical arrow in the middle of the HUD that is pointing downwards with a number on top (which apperears after designation) disappear after undesignating? (bc that's what shows that undesignate worked)

 

And don't forget to undesignate after the last designation, too!

 

Even when I step thru stations, each shows correct, different coordinates.


Edited by Tom Kazansky
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And don't forget to undesignate after the last designation, too!

 

 

Can't reiterate that enough! Last thing you want is to meticulously set 8 points and forget to undesignate the last --> ripple firing through all of the others with the last designate!!! :megalol:

Nope. Never done that myself. Nope. No...............

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I would love to see a video of this process in operation, this has been driving me nuts. If it works for 8 does it work for 2 or 4? That would probably be enough proof in the pudding. I'm not doubting anyone, just need to clear this up in my head.

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I would love to see a video of this process in operation, this has been driving me nuts. If it works for 8 does it work for 2 or 4? That would probably be enough proof in the pudding. I'm not doubting anyone, just need to clear this up in my head.

 

 

It works here with 2 to 8. Can you confirm that that vertical arrow that points to the designated target in the middle of the HUD is gone before you designate a following target AND especially before you start to drop the bombs?

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There's got to a way to step between weapons instead of stations, I find it hard to believe we HAVE to use separate missions for weapons on the same rack in TOO or PP for that matter. Step functions for the AMRAAMs, for example are weapon dependent not station dependent.

 

I don't understand why it wouldn't be similar with JDAMs, which require a lot more input from the pilot. It seems like a simple L or R indication on the SMS page Box for the station would solve everything and make total sense. But who knows, There must have been an OFP change for BRU-55s that we're missing information on.

 

You don't see this capability because it isn't necessary. As skootch has said, if you're hauling that many jdams, it's because you have pre planned targets. You probably wouldn't use MAN mode either. Qty relases of this magnitude would use AUTO mode, not MAN.

 

The OP's process is a work-around designed to satisfy the challenges of online MP lacking many planning features as well as the current state of JDAMs implementation. Though it's possible to do it in the real jet, no one would because there are better methods in place for QTY release we don't have yet.

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You don't see this capability because it isn't necessary. As skootch has said, if you're hauling that many jdams, it's because you have pre planned targets. You probably wouldn't use MAN mode either. Qty relases of this magnitude would use AUTO mode, not MAN.

 

The OP's process is a work-around designed to satisfy the challenges of online MP lacking many planning features as well as the current state of JDAMs implementation. Though it's possible to do it in the real jet, no one would because there are better methods in place for QTY release we don't have yet.

 

What if I just had two GBU-38s/54s on a single BRU-55 though? The way it works in game I still need to have separate missions for them. even in PP mode. What if I need both targets hit near simultaneously, it’s seems like we’re missing something, that should be straightforward? I don’t understand why the system wouldn’t treat them as separate weapons...it doesn’t make sense.

 

In other words, right now I can’t have two bombs come off BRU-55 to attack two targets under one mission and I don’t understand why. It seems limiting.


Edited by Wizard_03

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

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What if I just had two GBU-38s/54s on a single BRU-55 though? The way it works in game I still need to have separate missions for them. even in PP mode. What if I need both targets hit near simultaneously, it’s seems like we’re missing something, that should be straightforward? I don’t understand why the system wouldn’t treat them as separate weapons...it doesn’t make sense.

 

In other words, right now I can’t have two bombs come off BRU-55 to attack two targets under one mission and I don’t understand why. It seems limiting.

 

We shouldn't assume that a pilot can independently BRU-55, I've not seen documentation of it personally.

 

I don't want to open a can of worm, but there is no documentation on the interface between BRU-55 and OFP of an era close to our jet for a reason. As of FY 05, the Navy did not certify JDAM on BRU-55 weapon racks due to problems associated with the rack (not the weapon). The determination at that time was that although this inability prevented use of the BRU-55 rack to carry a load of eight 500lb JDAMs on 18C/Ds, the limitation was operationally insignificant under current employment scenarios. See feasibility argument above. As of 06, further testing and OFP development was planned, but that's where my knowledge on the topic stops.

 

If someone wants to dig and find when and how the capability was added be my guest - but I am not even sure what year our Hornet is supposed to be exactly? She's a bit of a frankenbug.


Edited by sk000tch

just a dude who probably doesn't know what he's talking about

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We shouldn't assume that a pilot can independently BRU-55, I've not seen documentation of it personally.

 

I don't want to open a can of worm, but there is no documentation on the interface between BRU-55 and OFP of an era close to our jet for a reason. As of FY 05, the Navy did not certify JDAM on BRU-55 weapon racks due to problems associated with the rack (not the weapon). The determination at that time was that although this inability prevented use of the BRU-55 rack to carry a load of eight 500lb JDAMs on 18C/Ds, the limitation was operationally insignificant under current employment scenarios. See feasibility argument above. As of 06, further testing and OFP development was planned, but that's where my knowledge on the topic stops.

 

If someone wants to dig and find when and how the capability was added be my guest - but I am not even sure what year our Hornet is supposed to be exactly? She's a bit of a frankenbug.

 

 

That's what I'm saying, it seems like there is an OFP update we are missing. You should be able to use the rack in that manner, It doesn't make sense that they wouldn't have accounted for that in SMS. I completely agree 8 bombs of any kind on the jet is completely unrealistic, But a single rack with two or two racks with four are quite common. The way the system works in game makes even those load-outs clunky and limited.

 

The idea behind having separate missions in the SMS is so that you can have variables in the sortie, i.e. one for this set of circumstances, one for another, one for alternate targets ect. It's not for separate bombs, If I have to assign a separate mission for each bomb or for each pair of bombs on separate racks, it defeats the point. The mission profiles are for the missions, not the targets. I HIGHLY doubt it was designed that way. It's not how JDAMs are handled on any other platform with multiple-carriage racks I've ever heard of. We shouldn't have BRU-55s at all based on the time of our aircraft, but if they want to add them, I wish they would have better functionality.


Edited by Wizard_03

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

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The idea behind having separate missions in the SMS is so that you can have variables in the sortie, i.e. one for this set of circumstances, one for another, one for alternate targets ect. It's not for separate bombs, If I have to assign a separate mission for each bomb or for each pair of bombs on separate racks, it defeats the point. The mission profiles are for the missions, not the targets. I HIGHLY doubt it was designed that way. It's not how JDAMs are handled on any other platform with multiple-carriage racks I've ever heard of. We shouldn't have BRU-55s at all based on the time of our aircraft, but if they want to add them, I wish they would have better functionality.

 

This makes perfect sense..... :thumbup:

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