ANNOUNCEMENT - DCS: MiG-21bis

[Kenan]

^^The announcement doesn't matter. Without even knowing there was an announcement, I knew the thing would be delayed. It's just how things are, not only with MiG21 module but with everything else. All we are getting are some occasional screenshots and that's it. Quite sick of it really and don't care for reasoning behind it. It may not be a "rational" thinking on my part but as a customer, I've been waiting, along with others, for far too long.

 

So, once again: don't really care. It's not available, I can't download and play it so..really, the reasoning behind it i.e., why is it delayed, is of very little use to me.

 

There you go.

[Mike Busutil]

The man has a point...

[q800]

Soooo... 6 days more and we take off! Maybe some some vid with working avionics, weapon systems, payloads, FM and such? Or maybe you will finaly admit that beside nice, eyecandy screenies of never-polished-enough-cockpit there's no progress at all and you are, like every DCS dev team including ED itself, deep deep behind any reasonable schedule? Which is normal state for DCS stuff lately.

[NineLine]

:doh:

[kobac]

I don't believe the MiG-21 to get out before the next (1.2.8.) patch.

[McBlemmen]

I have to agree with Kenan , but i dont want to sound disrespectfull. I feel like delays happen way too much here within DCS , i'd rather have no release date then an enmpty promise that gets my hopes up only for a delay.

 

Now i do ofcoarse understand the devs would have actually expected a release on time themselves , and stuff can always go wrong unexpectedly , it just seems to happen alot.

 

A while ago i read someone's post here on the forums (not neccecaraly the mig 21 section) that said something like "if you get a DCS release date announcement , add 6 months to it".

 

Once again , no disrespect , i understand stuff can come up. It just seems to happen more here then anywhere else.

 

 

Either way i'll regularly come back and check for updates. Keep up the good work.

[cichlidfan]

I don't believe the MiG-21 to get out before the next (1.2.8.) patch.

 

That is already a given.

[lunaticfringe]

"Another delay? Trully "shocked". So much time has passed I'm totally not into MiG-21 anymore..and this is really starting to get ridiculous.."

 

No, ridiculousness is what caused the delay in the first place. Although, if you really don't want the module, and wish to complain further, you are more than welcome to give me your pre-order key and lower your personal stress level by not having to concern yourself with the matter further.

 

I'd count on the "delay", if it actually should be considered one, to be similar in duration to the lost time and productivity that stemmed from the events that caused the publishing house to change hands. It took from the middle of January, until the end of February, before the legal situation for Leatherneck Studios was such to continue their efforts.

 

That's not a delay- that's reality. If Cobra and Co. aren't forced to deal with what amounted to a very public temper tantrum, the original deadline is met. Instead, valuable time, energy, and resources had to be spent doing everything but working on the module. If Leatherneck can release within a shorter window, that's an honest to God miracle (and is what Cobra seems to be implying), and is not worthy of ridicule or complaint, but respect.

 

Clearly, there is a contingent here who thinks these things exist and are built in a vacuum, and that any example of reality rearing its head, even with a very realistic schedule, is some form of disrespect or failure. Life happens.

 

But then, the same people b*ing ad nauseum over delays would be doubly angry if one hair on the pilot model's head were out of alignment in the eventual release. Such is the way of the world.

[q800]

More excuses. It is a delay. 31 march was official and confirmed date, even after this whole soap opera has ended. There still exist such unimportant things like reliability and responsibility for words.

I know it's insane thinking in this left-oriented spoiled western society. Ppl here are the 1st buyers with real money no matter what, some of them have already paid. Don't you forget that, when giving some more excuses and teachings about world, that had lost some important principles.

[NineLine]

More excuses. It is a delay. 31 march was official and confirmed date, even after this whole soap opera. There still exist such unimportant things like reliability and responsibility for words.

I know it's insane thinking in this left-oriented spoiled western society. Ppl here are the 1st buyers with real money no matter what, some of them have already paid. Don't you forget that, when giving some more excuses and teachings about world, that lost some important principles.

 

 

Please only speak for yourself and not for everyone, I for one am ok to accept that things happen, and will be happy to wait for a more complete project. I am as excited as the next guy to get the next newest thing, but also know there is people like you and me working on them, and I know how tough it is to juggle everything... LS has my support, and as much as I want them to hurry up, I dont want them to release it before they are ready to.

[Cobra847]

More excuses. It is a delay. 31 march was official and confirmed date, even after this whole soap opera has ended. There still exist such unimportant things like reliability and responsibility for words.

I know it's insane thinking in this left-oriented spoiled western society. Ppl here are the 1st buyers with real money no matter what, some of them have already paid. Don't you forget that, when giving some more excuses and teachings about world, that had lost some important principles.

 

31st of March was an official and confirmed date -- and is the reason for no more dates if any shred of uncertainty remains. If you do not realize that the internal changes that occurred were major enough to postpone the release, then I can offer no more information.

 

You can see our viewpoint on the delay in the first post. I suggest you re-read it carefully.

 

You have not (nor any backer) have paid for the Leatherneck Simulations MiG-21.

[lunaticfringe]

More excuses. It is a delay. 31 march was official and confirmed date, even after this whole soap opera has ended.

 

No, it was not. I would invite you to peruse Leatherneck's first statement on the matter- that is, the first post of this thread.

 

There still exist such unimportant things like reliability and responsibility for words.

 

And Cobra has already mentioned thus- again, in the first post in this thread. He also admitted the same as you, that they expect to be judged accordingly. Perhaps you'd be better off reading and comprehending it- you'd look less foolish.

 

I know it's insane thinking in this left-oriented spoiled western society.

 

It's abundantly clear that you've never created anything for public consumption at the international level, bounded by IP and contract law. And that's fine- you can bask in your ignorance with petulance. However, until such time as the ramifications of one coder's work leaving the building (along with the development investment) and that smoke cleared, there was very little way forward.

 

Or, would you have preferred that LS be subject to litigation for releasing the product as it was, without having passed those legal hurdles?

 

You don't need to answer that- I already know your answer.

 

Ppl here are the 1st buyers with real money no matter what, some of them have already paid. Don't you forget that, when giving some more excuses and teachings about world, that had lost some important principles.

 

Excuses- really?

 

I don't see anyone taking up torches and pitchforks on Laszlo's front lawn; you know- the guy who ran off with the proceeds of the IndieGoGo campaign. But I see a lot of people throwing s* at the folks picking up the pieces and pressing on.

 

When you choose to advocate pressing the former as hard as the latter, you might have a point; until then, your contention is nothing more than background noise.

[tobaschi]

31st of March was an official and confirmed date -- and is the reason for no more dates if any shred of uncertainty remains. If you do not realize that the internal changes that occurred were major enough to postpone the release, then I can offer no more information.

 

You can see our viewpoint on the delay in the first post. I suggest you re-read it carefully.

 

You have not (nor any backer) have paid for the Leatherneck Simulations MiG-21.

 

Just two question, do you know what happend with the money that was backed for the Studio Beczl Mig-21bis ?

 

If i'am remember right one part of the money should have be used for a DRM system for the modul. Does the Leatherneck Simulations Mig-21 use a DRM system?

[cichlidfan]

I don't see anyone taking up torches and pitchforks on Laszlo's front lawn; you know- the guy who ran off with the proceeds of the IndieGoGo campaign.

 

It probably isn't wise to make a statement like that on a public forum.

[q800]

31st of March was an official and confirmed date -- and is the reason for no more dates if any shred of uncertainty remains. If you do not realize that the internal changes that occurred were major enough to postpone the release, then I can offer no more information.

 

You can see our viewpoint on the delay in the first post. I suggest you re-read it carefully.

 

You have not (nor any backer) have paid for the Leatherneck Simulations MiG-21.

 

 

Guys, i'm not going to pet you like the others, i'm not going to be big-hearted, uderstanding, and tolerant. I'm going to be someone much more important. I'm your 1st buyer. Just think and estimate your capabilities before you say something. I think of this project as a real deal, not some skilled amateur's after-hours fun. It's worth something. Besides, you've already got enough claquers. I'm not going to be one of them. Just for good balance.

[Silver_Dragon]

Read the first post...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=121171

To make it abundantly clear:

 

We do not have, nor will we receive, a single cent of the funds raised on IndieGoGo.

 

However: in the interest of goodwill and as a thank you for your incredible support over the years, we will honor each and every backer to its' fullest extent, at our own cost.

Some physical items that you are entitled to may be slightly delayed (Shirts, DVDs, etc.). We simply do not have the money required to produce these items en masse before release.

 

In essence, the only difference to you (the backer) -- is that you may have to wait a short period to receive your physical goods. We hope that is amicable.

 

WHAT!? But you said March 30th?!

At that time, no one expected something this big to occur and hinder our development progress.

We are committed to giving you accurate and realistic time frames.

 

[lunaticfringe]

It probably isn't wise to make a statement like that on a public forum.

 

Yeah, because as we've seen with a number of protest-like responses from a number of folks concerning his exit from the project, it's going to hurt somebody's feelings.

[NineLine]

Yeah, because as we've seen with a number of protest-like responses from a number of folks concerning his exit from the project, it's going to hurt somebody's feelings.

 

Because we dont know the full story on all that happened, nor is this the place to discuss it.

[lunaticfringe]

Guys, i'm not going to pet you like the others, i'm not going to be big-hearted, uderstanding, and tolerant.

 

There's understanding, and then there's comprehension.

 

I'm going to be someone much more important. I'm your 1st buyer.

 

As has been proven, you're no such thing. Being a separate legal business entity, and having received no measure of your initial investment, LS owes you a grand sum of nothing.

 

You'll be receiving what amounts to a charitable offering- not a bought and paid for piece of merchandise.

 

Just think and estimate your capabilities before you say something.

 

They did- you just chose to not read it.

 

I'm not going to be one of them. Just for good balance.

 

You'd actually have a better point if you were one of Laszlo's protesters.

[lunaticfringe]

Because we dont know the full story on all that happened,

 

I don't dispute that, nor do I really care. I simply find the arguing amusing- punt the party that has zero obligation to Beczl's pre-sale, while allowing Laszlo to walk away essentially free from frustration, anger, or blame.

 

*He* made the promises- target the source with the vitriol. Engaging anything other than the source is useless, shortsighted, and hypocritical.

 

Not that I've come to expect *more*, but it goes without saying.

 

nor is this the place to discuss it.

 

The community should consider itself lucky that it is receiving a commitment to fulfill orders already placed. There's no legal precedent in any jurisdiction that makes LS legally liable to take this action; they could toss the list out the window, and tell every single customer that they must pay again.

 

Yet they are doing no such thing. That's deserving of a higher level of respect than Cobra and his crew has received here. Do I believe they deserve a massage and a happy ending over it- no. But I do think they deserve some semblance of reason with regards to the levels of smack they're taking, when one looks at the metered expectations and attempts at contrition they are making.

 

They're doing a damn sight more than the person who started this, that's for sure.

[NineLine]

Again, we dont know both sides, I have had the pleasure of talking to Beczl in the past as well as Rudel and to a lesser extent Cobra.... all of them have always been friendly and helpful... it makes all that went down that much more confusing.

 

So I stick to my statement, that the most important fact is we dont know all the facts. And this isnt the place to discuss it.

[lunaticfringe]

And the one fact that we do know is as I've said- an organization with no legal responsibility is taking a step far beyond what they need to. Is it a personal commitment? Is it a positioning for goodwill/advertising purposes? Doesn't matter. What matters is that people will be receiving something that they have not actually paid for, and that's more than reasonable.

 

Seriously- where would everyone complaining be, had the team that now compromises LS up and walked away? They literally could have done just that, and been without any danger of personal or legal ill. Those backers would now be dealing with legal recourse against Beczl, for which there is little, and have nothing to show for their investment.

 

To those complaining, I do wish they would answer honestly: which would they rather- a "delayed" release, or none at all (with no legal recourse)? We know where at least one is on the matter.

[Dolphin887]

Guys,

 

you all have right to be disappointed. Pretty much how we felt just a months ago, for two months. The whole project was at stake, and situation was serious. Bottom line is we received support from legal parties included in this project, most importantly TFC and Eagle Dynamics, finally resulting in granted licence from ED, for which we are thankful. On the other side, we lost two months and we knew we have to rebuild our reputation not from the scratch but from negative initial position. Very hard and unpleasant, but necessary and normal.

 

We won't meet the given release date, we admitted that and we are not hiding it.

 

You will get your long waited aircraft; we simply need time to finish mostly boring and administrative things (tutorials, missions, campaign, manual, promo things etc.). We are extremely sorry for this, and there is nothing we can do to accelerate this process except to stay focused and continue to work.

 

If MiG-21Bis lost some of you along the way it was just it's destiny. We are doing our best, and want you to have it. At the end, it is 21 last chance to ever be re-created. I honestly don't think that aircraft will ever be done at this level for any home or military class flight simulator.

 

My personal thanks to people who understand our situation. Once we release, our common troubles will be forgotten.

[outlawal2]

Guys,

 

you all have right to be disappointed. Pretty much how we felt just a months ago, for two months. The whole project was at stake, and situation was serious. Bottom line is we received support from legal parties included in this project, most importantly TFC and Eagle Dynamics, finally resulting in granted licence from ED, for which we are thankful. On the other side, we lost two months and we knew we have to rebuild our reputation not from the scratch but from negative initial position. Very hard and unpleasant, but necessary and normal.

 

We won't meet the given release date, we admitted that and we are not hiding it.

 

You will get your long waited aircraft; we simply need time to finish mostly boring and administrative things (tutorials, missions, campaign, manual, promo things etc.). We are extremely sorry for this, and there is nothing we can do to accelerate this process except to stay focused and continue to work.

 

If MiG-21Bis lost some of you along the way it was just it's destiny. We are doing our best, and want you to have it. At the end, it is 21 last chance to ever be re-created. I honestly don't think that aircraft will ever be done at this level for any home or military class flight simulator.

 

My personal thanks to people who understand our situation. Once we release, our common troubles will be forgotten.

 

:thumbup:

[Raven68]

Guys,

 

you all have right to be disappointed. Pretty much how we felt just a months ago, for two months. The whole project was at stake, and situation was serious. Bottom line is we received support from legal parties included in this project, most importantly TFC and Eagle Dynamics, finally resulting in granted licence from ED, for which we are thankful. On the other side, we lost two months and we knew we have to rebuild our reputation not from the scratch but from negative initial position. Very hard and unpleasant, but necessary and normal.

 

We won't meet the given release date, we admitted that and we are not hiding it.

 

You will get your long waited aircraft; we simply need time to finish mostly boring and administrative things (tutorials, missions, campaign, manual, promo things etc.). We are extremely sorry for this, and there is nothing we can do to accelerate this process except to stay focused and continue to work.

 

If MiG-21Bis lost some of you along the way it was just it's destiny. We are doing our best, and want you to have it. At the end, it is 21 last chance to ever be re-created. I honestly don't think that aircraft will ever be done at this level for any home or military class flight simulator.

 

My personal thanks to people who understand our situation. Once we release, our common troubles will be forgotten.

 

All that has been said here is as I believe as genuine, sincere statements and I have nothing but respect for it and I dare to say it helps the "healing" process for me in regaining some of the faith lost during their internal issue. I know I don't have much influence if any at all here, but I would kindly ask the community to stop with the bashing and move forward and try to be supportive towards LS as much as we can.