July 2014 Update #1

[Flagrum]

Um... Until this post by Wags, DCS:WW2 was still a separate game. Backing at $40 level meant you got Dora for DCS:WW2 (whenever it was released, so maybe next year, maybe in 2 years), it did NOT give you Dora for DCS:World (available in August) though.

 

It was with this last post by Wags that DCS:WW2 is no longer separate from DCS:World.

Hm, maybe. To me this was not that clear. It was in fact rather unclear - it was asked several times during the campaign and some - unconclusive - answers were given that the aircrafts (and the maps) would/should/could be "compatible", i.e. work everywhere.

If that was only the technical perspective and the licensing perspective was left out? Maybe ... as I said, unconclusive for me at least.

 

But still, I could easily understand the urge to instantly purchase a new aircraft - but as this is only a pre-purchase, there was really no need to rush anything. Imo.

[159th_Viper]

Do not pre-purchase anymore.....

 

Nobody pre-purchased anything.

 

There is a distinct difference between crowdfunding and pre-purchasing. Not understanding the difference should be a red flag for whoever contemplates a kickstarter campaign.

If one cannot/does not appreciate the difference then steer well clear.

[komemiute]

Here's a quick math:

 

P51D module = $30

New DCS modules = $50, but prepurchase reduced to $40 (like the Dora is right now).

 

Difference = $10.

 

If ED were to give the 2500 backers the option to choose the first airplane as something different (so, instead of P51D, people would select the Spit or the BF109, because most already have the P51D), that means $25.000 "loss" for Eagle Dynamics.

 

25 grand is nothing. A single module costs anywhere from 200k and up to develop.

The gain of happy customers that would finally be happy with their purchases, if we were allowed to CHOOSE the first airplane, however, is priceless.

 

+1. This is the answer to all the complaints here...

Why is it so blooduly hard to see it?

 

I don't expect to get all the planes for mere 20$. But at least to choose the one I get.

[billeinstein]

Do not Kickstarter anymore...

If the rewards at beginning were same as now, I wonder how much pledged can be reached.

[Stratos]

Let me try to answer that for you:

 

- People are asked to pay money for a product and they are promised something, depending how much you want to pay, this is almost like a contract, so both sides need to follow it. The user/buyer however pays the money upfront... and now has to wait... in mean time things change and the other side wants to change their part of the deal.

 

Now where would we be if this becomes a common thing?

 

Why is it alright for one side to not deliver on their promise? the user cannot back up from their payment now can they? So why should the seller be able to change their part of the deal?

 

All I'm saying is, if you promise something, you really should keep your word, if not the TRUST from people will be gone, and that is not a good thing... it is very hard to earn someone's trust again once its lost.

 

And your last quote... that we are crazy to believe ED can deliver... geee.... what a way to put it... so we are to blame for believing? And the person that's in this business and makes such promises (that should know what they are promising is not viable) is not crazy?

 

Agree 100%

[Screamadelica]

I just want DCS WW2 to Survive.

 

This is why I invested in the Kickstarter. This is our best chance to have a WW2 flight simulation that will continue to expand for years to come.

If we want high fidelity aircraft of DCS standards in a WW2 environment, then this sim is the path forward. There are no real alternatives.

I am very happy with the new tier rewards that have been offered to me, I'd much rather have a Fighter Collection shirt than a project t-shirt.

The issue of selectable aircraft rewards if you already have the P51 or have pre-ordered the Dora is maybe something that could be adjusted in some way. Hopefully there is an option available to help the backers in that situation.

Thank you to Eagle Dynamics for keeping this project alive.

Hang in there Sithspawn, you're doing a great job in a difficult situation. :thumbup: Salute!

[nick10]

How's the actual building of the new aircraft coming?

 

We haven't seen anything of the me-109 k and other stuff in a while?

[Kusch]

It seems that I paid $ 20 for the plane, which I already have. I feel cheated.

[Geronimo989]

At first, when I read this, I was upset. I felt cheated, 40$ is a big deal in my country, and instead of all the planes and a map I am getting only one plane and a map.

 

Those that say "sell the mustang key" are not considering that it is already dirt cheap, and it's gonna be even cheaper when we all get our double mustang keys.

Don't you think they didn't think of that when they put the mustang for all the pledges above 20 dollars?

 

I thought that I should boycott ED products from now on or something...

 

But then again, this is the only high fidelity flight sim in development. If ED loses sales and decides not to continue making DCS titles, I don't thing we will ever get this level of detail in a combat flight sim. It is just too costly and the market is too small...

 

So I am left with bitter taste in my mouth, but will continue to buy ED products when they go on discount or something.

 

They could make this half right by allowing us to select which planes we want. But I don't think that will happen

[[DBS]TH0R]

It seems that I paid $ 20 for the plane, which I already have. I feel cheated.

 

Or full price for Dora.

[msalama]

it would seem that they probably did not.

 

I certainly hope so, because them knowing about it beforehand would open up a heap big can of squiggly and crawly buggers.

 

But meh. I only backed with those $40 in the first place because I wanted to support a high-realism WW2 addon for DCSW, so I'm personally not upset at this point. Provided that they don't stamp an X over the whole addon later, that is ;)

[upupandaway]

I´m quite happy with the new reward system and at this point I´m certainly willing to just let the past be the past.

 

The four aircraft I am most interested in (P-51, 190, 109, Spitfire) at a reasonable price plus alpha access and the map...

I´m only slightly missing alpha access to the map itself.

 

Considering that I chipped in @ 95$ for BoS where I basically care only about 2 or 3 aircraft, I already know that I´ll get at least the same value for my money in DCS. As I see it, I´ll also have a second P-51 key that I can give to a friend. Right?

 

As we get closer to the launch of DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora in August 2014, we are working on a mechanism to provide an Alpha copy to $40 and up contributors.

Nice, but a little vague still... Edited July 8, 2014 by upupandaway

[DD_Crash]

I do hope they lets us choose an aircraft or 2 even if we have to wait 18 months to get hold of it. It would take away some of the disappointment.

[Kraut]

Is it possible to select the aircraft that we want? I'm at the $50 level and don't want the P51, I already own it and didn't have it selected in the first place. I'd much rather have Dora and the 109 with my backer level and buy the others later. The P51 is the one aircraft that I don't want.

 

http://imgur.com/kMln3Wa

Edited July 8, 2014 by Kraut

[f-18hornet]

I just wish i could buy other planes which won't be in my tier with some discount.

[Dogz]

I had a silly dream last night. If any happenings in this dream resemble any real life situations, it is totally coincidental.

 

 

In this dream was a guy that had a vision of creating new football shoes. His name was Ilyushin. So he gathered a team and went to Nike (name changed) headquarters to present his idea:

 

"I plan to create a new new football shoe, called Nike Super Shoe and raise money for it through KickPuncher. I will tell everybody that it is a joint project with Nike. I will provide different levels of rewards to the funders of this project:

- Every funder gets a pair of suitable shoes when they are done.

- Higher level funders get a Nike football on top of that.

- Still higher level get all at the previous level and can also choose Nike basketball or Nike running shoes.

- Still higher level get a hard copy of history of football on top of previous.

- Top level funders get all the previous and their shoes personally signed by Lionel Messi."

 

 

Nike replies:

"That is cool. Please feel free to use our name to promote your project and use our official website and set up a subforum on our private forum section."

 

 

So this Ilyushin starts a KickPuncher project to raise the money. Lots of people have doubts about the level of rewards, but after all, it is a Nike-joint-project, with Nike Super Shoe being the name of the project. Some decide to check from Nike homepage, if this is a hoax, but no, on official Nike website this same project is promoted and linked to. They think, well, nowodays are all kinds of marketing and financing systems, cheap airlines, free-to-play games etc. It is cool that Nike has decided to be part of that kind of new approach, let's fund this project. After all, Nike is deeply involved in it and have given their name to be used with the shoe.

 

 

So the project gets funded. Funders see occasional updates about the shoe design and how their money is being put to use. Then at some point comes an announcement from Nike that this dreamer Ilyushin has been kicked out of the project. But no worries, Nike promises to honor all KickPuncher promises. It takes over the work and results that the funders have invested in and continues with the project.

 

 

Then about a month later comes a new announcement from Nike that they feel it is better for them financially to back out of the promises. But there is a great new reward system for the funders:

- Low level funders get to see a picture of the shoes once they are ready.

- Higher level funders get one shoe and can buy the other shoe at full price.

- Still higher level funders get a full pair of shoes, size 36.

 

 

As a bonus, the shoes come with tie-ready shoe laces. So great.

 

 

All the funders should be really happy, because Nike had no involvement in this project from the beginning and just out of good will is picking it up. Nike had no idea that the product was marketed as Nike Super Shoe or that it was mentioned to be a joint project with Nike and that Nike's official website was used to promote and handle the project as well as having a private forum on Nike's site.

 

 

Then I woke up ... but it was a nice dream.

[KPX2012]

Is it possible to select the aircraft that we want? I'm at the $50 level and don't want the P51, I already own it and didn't have it selected in the first place. I'd much rather have Dora and the 109 with my backer level and buy the others later. Another P51 key is the last thing I need or want :/

 

+10000

 

Things not yet cleared :

At the 50$ KS, will I get the other planes at 20$ ?

 

I also already owned the P51,so I would like to be able to choose another plane and not be constricted to ED choice (I have to check teh validity of all these changes).

I do agree to the new system if for the backers it let the price at 20$ for the planes forseen in the plane set backed with KS + choice of second plane if already owner of P51D.

 

 

Have fun

[[DBS]TH0R]

+10000

 

Things not yet cleared :

At the 50$ KS, will I get the other planes at 20$ ?

 

I also already owned the P51,so I would like to be able to choose another plane and not be constricted to ED choice (I have to check teh validity of all these changes).

I do agree to the new system if for the backers it let the price at 20$ for the planes forseen in the plane set backed with KS + choice of second plane if already owner of P51D.

 

 

Have fun

 

IMHO this could work. Giving an option for those that have purchased P-51D outside of KS to select one flyable per their choice.

 

Else I don't see anyone paying full price for the 51 in the future since the marked will be flooded with "aftermarket" keys from KS rewards...

[Boris]

I had a silly dream last night. If any happenings in this dream resemble any real life situations, it is totally coincidental.

 

 

In this dream was a guy that had a vision of creating new football shoes. His name was Ilyushin. So he gathered a team and went to Nike (name changed) headquarters to present his idea:

 

"I plan to create a new new football shoe, called Nike Super Shoe and raise money for it through KickPuncher. I will tell everybody that it is a joint project with Nike. I will provide different levels of rewards to the funders of this project:

- Every funder gets a pair of suitable shoes when they are done.

- Higher level funders get a Nike football on top of that.

- Still higher level get all at the previous level and can also choose Nike basketball or Nike running shoes.

- Still higher level get a hard copy of history of football on top of previous.

- Top level funders get all the previous and their shoes personally signed by Lionel Messi."

 

 

Nike replies:

"That is cool. Please feel free to use our name to promote your project and use our official website and set up a subforum on our private forum section."

 

 

So this Ilyushin starts a KickPuncher project to raise the money. Lots of people have doubts about the level of rewards, but after all, it is a Nike-joint-project, with Nike Super Shoe being the name of the project. Some decide to check from Nike homepage, if this is a hoax, but no, on official Nike website this same project is promoted and linked to. They think, well, nowodays are all kinds of marketing and financing systems, cheap airlines, free-to-play games etc. It is cool that Nike has decided to be part of that kind of new approach, let's fund this project. After all, Nike is deeply involved in it and have given their name to be used with the shoe.

 

 

So the project gets funded. Funders see occasional updates about the shoe design and how their money is being put to use. Then at some point comes an announcement from Nike that this dreamer Ilyushin has been kicked out of the project. But no worries, Nike promises to honor all KickPuncher promises. It takes over the work and results that the funders have invested in and continues with the project.

 

 

Then about a month later comes a new announcement from Nike that they feel it is better for them financially to back out of the promises. But there is a great new reward system for the funders:

- Low level funders get to see a picture of the shoes once they are ready.

- Higher level funders get one shoe and can buy the other shoe at full price.

- Still higher level funders get a full pair of shoes, size 36.

 

 

As a bonus, the shoes come with tie-ready shoe laces. So great.

 

 

All the funders should be really happy, because Nike had no involvement in this project from the beginning and just out of good will is picking it up. Nike had no idea that the product was marketed as Nike Super Shoe or that it was mentioned to be a joint project with Nike and that Nike's official website was used to promote and handle the project as well as having a private forum on Nike's site.

 

 

Then I woke up ... but it was a nice dream.

 

Nice story, but at least we're still getting much better rewards that the ones Nike is giving out now :smilewink:

 

Many of us saw right from the start that RRG was being far too ambitious and generous. First the scope of the project was too large for the time frame set, secondly there were too many FREE flyables promised (for non-backers!) and the backer rewards were like an Oprah give away.

Yes, I too find it very strange that ED did not have at least a word to them about this.

 

In any case, ED has now made a viable project out of a pipe dream.

 

I don't care that we now get less for our money. I'm not going to complain about getting the products cheap instead of dirt cheap. I backed the project because I wanted to see a WW2 DCS a reality, not because I thought I was purchasing specific products. In fact, I would have backed without the promise of any actual rewards, the only reward being that it gets made and I can buy it.

[jinroh]

What's sad by reading this is: "all the people who bought already the P51 are the one being the most impacted". I understand the move of KS and appreciate it but wouldn't be fair that those with the P51D have the right to choose another plane ? Otherwise this is just not right that some people have to pay more than others in the same circumstances.

[OGB]

I would calmly and respectfully ask ED to reconsider the issue of duplicate aircraft keys and allow backers a choice. I already own the P-51 and do not want or need a second licence. Some backers would choose 'later' aircraft like the 262 and this would spread the 'hit' for ED. I would even be willing to pay $10 or so to help offset the costs. That way ED has my $20 P-51 licence to resell and an extra Tenner.

 

Dave

[Zunzun]

That is my main complain: Not being able to choose your plane. Need to be cut down to one plan for making it sustainable? So it be. Is logical. But why on earth can't you choose your favourite plane. Dora flyer are gonna be happy (and many Kurfust one) but most of spit and jug flyer won't have the opportunity to get them.

Why choosing one plane, if is in your reward (one plane), is not sustainable? Why I have to get another copy of mustang if I own one? What is the problem in giving me the jug instead?

I understand all the reason for changing the rewards but not this. Please inform us why.

[Geronimo989]

I am sure that they put the Mustang as the first plane because they don't lose any potential sales of it because all the people that would have bought it already did. And while its good economical decision, it is not at all nice to us loyal customers...

[Boris]

I think the easiest solution would be to cut the P-51 from the rewards altogether and replace it with another plane.

[*Rage*]

I think the financial impact on ED of allowing everyone to choose their planes would be too great. They would not have taken a decision like that lightly.

 

We were all offered a deal that was too good to be true by a 3rd party. We paid and now that 3rd party is gone. The money was not swindled but spent on development.

 

That project failed. ED is completely entitiled to shut that forum down and walk away no obligation. Your beef is with RRG. Not ED.

 

ED is trying to placate the angry masses by offering us a compromise. You can either accept it for what it is, and be thankful to them for trying, or walk away yourself and pursue RRG for loss/damages. For the equivalent of a night out with friends, I gladly accept and support EDs decision. Especially since almost all of us are getting some return on our failed investment and perhaps more importantly, the project continues.

 

Remember, we took this risk on when we crowdfunded. Time to cut our losses and move on.