DCS Bf 109K-4

[wolfstriked]

That trailer for the 109K is just amazing!!I never seen it till just now and was just blown away.Gotta say that Glowing Amraam fella really knows his stuff!

[Wichid]

I can't wait for the big September update!

 

I'm also wondering why the 109 doesn't get a forum of it's own yet?

[NineLine]

If it's wrong it's wrong. Could have said what the correct options were though. Black might be good.

 

No one has issues with reporting something that is wrong (its already been reported to ED), just the delivery is lacking from some people...

[Einherjer]

Its dangerous to try to make a paintscheme for a German WWII plane and post it on the Internet - here are so many "experts" with "convincing sources" ... You will always do it wrong.

(If you find sarcasm, keep it)

Same Problem here, as on the big RC Model Forums.

[Abburo]

I used to and still do time to time small scale planes, vehicles etc, and yes the paintscheme, the color codes, are neverending sources of debate.

[Kurfürst]

Well, can the skins be changed if one wants to...?

[Solty]

Its dangerous to try to make a paintscheme for a German WWII plane and post it on the Internet - here are so many "experts" with "convincing sources" ... You will always do it wrong.

(If you find sarcasm, keep it)

Same Problem here, as on the big RC Model Forums.

 

It is dangerous to say anything about a Bf109. They are just perfect you know. Allies had never developed planes that were even close to their specs. The only way that allies shot down German fighters was by lucky shots. They won the war... oh wait :P

 

 

Abandon thread:pilotfly:

 

No, but realy. The way that some of you talk about 109s is just crazy. It is fanatism. It is just a little detail and not even within the plane's specs department, but art on the BOX :doh:

 

I am sure that even if 109 would be 100% the same as IRL you would not be satified. You are never pleased.

 

Every WW2 community is full of 109 fans. And they are always angry:mad:

[Einherjer]

There are Threads with 1000+ posts about (theoretical) paintings of the plane - RLM colors and Position of the decals/markings.

And if you see photos of these old birds in the Field ... handpainted in hurry ... With colors that were available...

[DB 605]

 

Every WW2 community is full of 109 fans. And they are always angry:mad:

 

I've not seen single 109 fan who is angry about DCS K4 or it details. For me it seems Pony and other allied plane fans are angry instead ;)

[Solty]

I've not seen single 109 fan who is angry about DCS K4 or it details. For me it seems Pony and other allied plane fans are angry instead ;)

LOL Not about DCS(yet). Geez. Have you read what I wrote? We are just starting. When K4 goes live, I am sure to see threads like:"109 not turning as it should", "109 not climbing as it should", "109, the might of Luftwaffe insulted" etc. Every WW2 simlation forum has those.

 

I am sure that ED will deliver the best 109 model there ever was.:book:I BELIEVE!:D

[DB 605]

LOL Not about DCS(yet). Geez. Have you read what I wrote? We are just starting. When K4 goes live, I am sure to see threads like:"109 not turning as it should", "109 not climbing as it should", "109, the might of Luftwaffe insulted" etc. Every WW2 simlation forum has those.

 

I am sure that ED will deliver the best 109 model there ever was.:book:I BELIEVE!:D

 

Don't be a such jinx. Examples you wrote goes really any plane in any sim, not just 109. Stop bashing us 109 fans now :) To be honest, i'm fan of all WW2 birds, 109 is just my favourite.

Like DCS Mustang and 190, i believe 109 will be so good that no such threads are needed this time.

[Altflieger]

It'll be more like "that 30mm is overmodelled", lol!

[Kurfürst]

Honestly, the only whine I can see as probable will be about the firepower given that planes in DCS tend to soak up hits... seeing the number of rounds required from 2cm/.50cal to down a fighter, I have some reservations for the MK 108s effectiveness in DCS.

[Altflieger]

Agree about the current state of the invunerable AI, but a 30mm mineshell landing anywhere on a P51, should, if it doesn't blow it to pieces, mortally wound it making any further combat pointless.

 

Wags says there is a big September update coming, perhaps this is the long awaited EDGE. IF the game engine can then run on a multicore processor then it's possible that a much more comprehensive damage model will ensue that will truly represent the destructive effectiveness of weapons.

 

As an aside Bob Tuck, spitfire ace remarked that after being hit by canon shells planes fell apart under g force stresses, more often than not.

 

While you're here K, reading a post on another forum saying that Erla produced a batch of K4 "specials", highly polished and well put together, claimed to have photographic eveidence, didn't post it though. Also discovered some G10's had retractable tailwheels.....apparently. Still think any speed difference between the two would have been minimal at best.

[Pilum]

Well according to Mark Hanna, control surfaces of the 109 become stiff at around 500kph and you need power of both hands to maneuver agressively. It was not done by the critical mach value(not compressibility), but by the force of the air that was pushing on the controls. That was hard to counter due to short stick and control surfaces beeing small. The game you are talking about had no real simulation above 3000m, so... yeah. I figure that 109 should perform at high speed as it should. It is ED anyway :smartass: Just look at the Pony. It is just briliant.

 

http://www.eaf51.org/newweb/Documenti/Storia/Flying_%20109_ENG.pdf

 

Yes, I agree about the principle: In most cases it is the dynamic pressure q that is the problem and this is seldom an issue up high. This is also most likely why some say the 109 came into it's own up high. However, if you go really high and dive steeply then you can get compressibility problems as well due to local supersonic flow over the elevator. But this is something all elevator controlled planes suffered from. However, in this respect the 109 and 190 had an advantage with the all movable stabilizer which can be used to recover if elevator runs into compressibility problems.

 

When not taking compressibility in to account, the force on the control surfaces is proportional to IAS (pressure related) and not to TAS (speed relative to MSL)... I guess the 500kph is in IAS as old warbirds have no indication of TAS nor groundspeed (=TAS + wind)

 

 

[EDIT] For clarification:

 

ground speed (GS): the speed of the aircraft relative to the ground -> what you would see on your moving map in all weather conditions

true air speed (TAS): the speed of the aircraft relative to the `local' air (ground speed - wind) -> what you would see on your moving map without any wind

indicated air speed (IAS): the speed of the aircraft as measured by the pitot-static tubes (pressure differential between static and dynamic air pressure) -> related to the local air density and temperature

calibrated airspeed (CAS): indicated airspeed corrected for instrument measurement errors (such as aerodynamic flow interaction etc.) -> what is shown to the pilot by the speed gauge

 

CAS is shown to the pilot because (roughly said) the value of the stall speed of the aircraft stays the same at all altitudes. However, this value says nothing about how fast you are actually going relative to the ground!

 

[EDIT 2] My point being, Pilum is right by saying that the seize in that other sim is incorrect if it really works as he describes, Solty is right by saying that the stiffness occurs at a certain CAS value =)

 

Yep, and I thought it could be good to point this and the Mk108 accuracy issue out before the release because it is probably a lot easier to get attention on this now prior to release. If a model is released and things are not hunky-dory, it will be more of an uphill struggle to change things since we are all fallible humans after all ;)

Edited September 1, 2014 by Pilum

[gavagai]

Yes, I agree about the principle: In most cases it is the dynamic pressure q that is the problem and this is seldom an issue up high. This is also most likely why some say the 109 came into it's own up high. However, if you go really high and dive steeply then you can get compressibility problems as well due to local supersonic flow over the elevator. But this is something all elevator controlled planes suffered from. However, in this respect the 109 and 190 had an advantage with the all movable stabilizer which can be used to recover if elevator runs into compressibility problems.

 

Flettner tabs got lost in the bickering over paint schemes, but 109K-4s usually had them on the ailerons, while 109G-2s did not (Hanna flew a G2). I am yet to see any quantitative comparison of stick forces for 109s with and without flettner tabs.

[Altflieger]

Just like to add that although the inability to generate stick forces in a 109 is seen as a weakness, it did prevent the pilot from overstressing the airframe, and was a design "feature", deemed as positive by the Germans.

Late 109's, k4's and G10's had a completely revised control stick system to cope with increasing stick forces, flettners lightened somewhat the forces required to move control surfaces. Almost everything on a k4 is bigger/better than say a G6, comparisons between them would like mk V and mk xiv spitfires, superficially similar but that's as far as it goes.

[LcSummers]

Hi,

 

looking at the pictures of the K-4 Chizh posted i realized that the "antenna plug in" on the fuselage is going through the loop antenna and ends nearly after it.

 

I know only one K-4 with that arrangement (surrenderd in Denmark) (May be i am wrong) Most of the antenna wire to my knowledge ended near the canopy.

 

May i ask why this type was selected? (only corious)

 

 

Thanks

[DB 605]

Hi,

 

looking at the pictures of the K-4 Chizh posted i realized that the "antenna plug in" on the fuselage is going through the loop antenna and ends nearly after it.

 

I know only one K-4 with that arrangement (surrenderd in Denmark) (May be i am wrong) Most of the antenna wire to my knowledge ended near the canopy.

 

May i ask why this type was selected? (only corious)

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Take a look of drawings i posted couple of pages earlier. There was several ways how antenna wire was fitted and all styles were in use.

 

Edited September 2, 2014 by DB 605

[LcSummers]

Take a look of drawings i posted couple of pages earlier. There was several ways how antenna wire was fitted and all styles were in use.

 

 

 

Thanks DB 605.

 

As many of the K-4 were produced by MTT Rgb, i thought there is a srtaight line in constuction. This seems not the case and as it seems, some profiles are wrong with the wireing.

 

S!

[messermeister]

While you're here K, reading a post on another forum saying that Erla produced a batch of K4 "specials", highly polished and well put together, claimed to have photographic eveidence, didn't post it though. Also discovered some G10's had retractable tailwheels.....apparently. Still think any speed difference between the two would have been minimal at best.

 

Which forum is that? Are there primary sources for the G-10 claim?

[Krupi]

LOL Not about DCS(yet). Geez. Have you read what I wrote? We are just starting. When K4 goes live, I am sure to see threads like:"109 not turning as it should", "109 not climbing as it should", "109, the might of Luftwaffe insulted" etc. Every WW2 simlation forum has those.

 

I am sure that ED will deliver the best 109 model there ever was.:book:I BELIEVE!:D

 

You seem pretty adamant that the K4 is going to kick the Ponies ass...

 

That is the only reason I can find to explain why you are pounding on the K4 forum before the aircraft is even out... :doh:

[leafer]

Oh my..I thought the super sonic crowd were over-the-top with their impeccable knowledge of avionics etc. This toppled that crazy missile thread. Wrong paint...:D

[Solty]

You seem pretty adamant that the K4 is going to kick the Ponies ass...

 

That is the only reason I can find to explain why you are pounding on the K4 forum before the aircraft is even out... :doh:

I am not "pounding on the plane" I was a fan of 109 way before I was able to fly the P-51 (well it is a simple plane when compared to the pony). I am sorry if it looked that way.

 

I will just not tolerate any kind of 109 insurgency. 2 other forums have been overtaken by 109 fans and nobody is able to speed anything good about allied "inferior" planes.

 

...and yes I am sure that 109 will kick P-51's ass in 1v1 fights. I have experience against Bf109K4 from other sims.

 

Because the 109K4 has:

 

Better acceleration

Better stalling speed

Better turn rate

Better climb

Better max speed

Better roll at low speed

Better armament

Better handling

 

P-51 has:

 

Better roll at high speed

Better handling at high speed

 

The end.

[SlipBall]

it's not so much the plane as it is the pilot, and happenstance :)