help with sabre vs mig 15

[USARStarkey]

So I know the mig can outclimb the sabre, but I cant seem to do anything in the vertical with this guy, even with a large E advantage. It should have about a 1000fpm climb advantage, but it feels like alot more. Not sure if im doing something wrong with the sabre. I notice the throttle goes to 110, but I only have it at 100. Can it be made to go farther? As it is now it seems like I have to have 200mph on the mig just to get my guns on him if he points he nose even slightly vertical. Been in dogfights with planes that climb better before: 190 vs 51, or Eagle vs, Flanker, and numerous others, but I have never seen a 1000fpm advantage do so much before.

[WinterH]

Tried about 5-6 times head-on co alt 1 vs 1. The best I could get so far is a maneuvre kill, he got crashed when trying to follow me :D, he got me 2-3 times, and others were long stalemates without either side hitting at all.

 

Whenever he is in trouble he just seem to pull the stick a bit back and say me aura voir :D. I know MiG-15 has a better climb rate but, umm... wow, he really just points the plane upwards and away he goes :)

 

One thing I can be proud I guess is... I did land her pretty nicely at first attempt, something I am not too consistent in P-51 :P.

 

Other observations in 5-6 dogfights so far :

- F-86F doesn't seem to like getting slow at all

- At straight line, it seems we can outrun the MiG-15 easily

- At vertical, MiG seem to have it quite easy

- F-86 seems like the quickest aircraft to bleed energy in tight turns among what he have in DCS.

- Though, it does turn pretty nicely before running out of energy, guess I'll just need to read/practice to find the way to sustain a good turn with it.

 

All in all, damn enjoyable aircraft to fly! :)

[ANGST]

I took an f15c against a mig15 , it took an aim9 and and a 120 and did not even look damaged . I don't think a .50 will hurt it.

[Blaze]

Visual damage model for the MiG-15 hasn't been implemented yet from the looks of it, still a very new model.

[HiJack]

Visual damage model for the MiG-15 hasn't been implemented yet from the looks of it, still a very new model.

Ok, so then we should practice on some transport planes then for a while. Or do we have a better option? Maybe just fight against MiG 15 in pursuit?

[Blaze]

Think you misunderstood. The MiGs can take damage, the model just doesn't have visual damage built into it yet.

[aaron886]

Seems to me to be a bit exaggerated. The usually-quoted performance specs for the two fighters were pretty close, although the MiG had a slight advantage in most categories. I think we're seeing the result of the SFM fidelity level.

[SgtPappy]

Seems to me to be a bit exaggerated. The usually-quoted performance specs for the two fighters were pretty close, although the MiG had a slight advantage in most categories. I think we're seeing the result of the SFM fidelity level.

 

I think this is correct. The SFM plus the smart AI means perfect trim, no overheat, no over-G and probably less realistic maneuvering. Although AFAIK, the MiG-15bis bested the F-86E in most aspects. Below 35,000', it's all F-86F.

 

At high altitude, the MiG's performance advantage is especially true. Below 35,000' the Sabre will have a significant maximum turn rate advantage. At low altitudes, the MiG's climb and acceleration advantage are still there, but versus an F-86F, it is much less pronounced, while the F-86 is faster and turns better. Keep your maneuvers nose-low, reserve energy and you can indeed follow the MiG in one of his climbs. Don't just yank your stick to get lead every time you can. Wait for an opening and just deny him a shot.

 

I just shot down an excellent MiG-15 twice in a row. It's all about patience.

Edited July 26, 2014 by SgtPappy
Added picture

[Exorcet]

I took an f15c against a mig15 , it took an aim9 and and a 120 and did not even look damaged . I don't think a .50 will hurt it.

It looks like it has the same AI damage issues that the Fw-190/P-51 do. I put ~50 rounds into the engine nozzle and it kept flying. I changed the target to an An-26 and it seemed like just a single bullet on the engine made it a total loss.

[SgtPappy]

It looks like it has the same AI damage issues that the Fw-190/P-51 do. I put ~50 rounds into the engine nozzle and it kept flying. I changed the target to an An-26 and it seemed like just a single bullet on the engine made it a total loss.

 

Darn, really? Maybe it's just the fuselage. Both times I shot him down, I focused on the wings. After 2 short bursts, he was in flames. Of course, it took like 20 mins for me to get the 2nd burst in. Perhaps I should add a track? I don;t know how though.

[Exorcet]

Add track as attachment to post? I think it works the same as attaching an image.

 

To do the above I just put the MiG in front of me, slowed down time and held down the trigger. Pressed ' to see number of hits when the MiG moved beyond the HUD and it was 50 something. The MiG did start climbing and we got out of sync so maybe a few would have hit outside the fuselage, but the majority were dead on.

[SgtPappy]

Oh, derp. I am a noob at this. I didn't even realize you could count the hits while in-game. I'll take note.

 

Ok, I hope this track works, because the last time I played a track, I was flying an F-15 and in the track, my plane pretty much just crashed into the ground even though I know I obviously didn't do that in the game. This leads me to believe that tracks aren't recordings, but are a simulation of what you actually did in the game.

 

EDIT: Okay, the track works. And just so you don't have to watch the WHOLE thing, the two bursts that cause damage are at 10:04 and 10:11 in that timer in the bottom right hand corner. So just fast forward to those times.

First MiG kill.trk

Edited July 26, 2014 by SgtPappy
More info about track

[NineLine]

The MiG 15 is pretty rough right now, many things will improve as things go along, remember this is a beta release.

[Exorcet]

tracks aren't recordings, but are a simulation of what you actually did in the game.

Correct. They've become less reliable over recent patches, but it helps to avoid changing the game speed and/or avoiding things that cause big FPS drops (which sadly includes shooting in the F-86 and just being near some airports).

 

Sith, yeah it's beta so I'm not really complaining, just listing what I see. Speaking of which, I've noticed that the MiG also has 2 canopies (pilot ejects and the canopy is still on)

[NineLine]

Correct. They've become less reliable over recent patches, but it helps to avoid changing the game speed and/or avoiding things that cause big FPS drops (which sadly includes shooting in the F-86 and just being near some airports).

 

Sith, yeah it's beta so I'm not really complaining, just listing what I see. Speaking of which, I've noticed that the MiG also has 2 canopies (pilot ejects and the canopy is still on)

 

No worries.... just making sure everyone knows the MiG is fairly new in the sim, so things are still getting worked out...

[Druid_]

Its not just the performance of the Mig either its AI behaviour that also needs tweaking. Still fun though ...

[USARStarkey]

I think this is correct. The SFM plus the smart AI means perfect trim, no overheat, no over-G and probably less realistic maneuvering. Although AFAIK, the MiG-15bis bested the F-86E in most aspects. Below 35,000', it's all F-86F.

 

At high altitude, the MiG's performance advantage is especially true. Below 35,000' the Sabre will have a significant maximum turn rate advantage. At low altitudes, the MiG's climb and acceleration advantage are still there, but versus an F-86F, it is much less pronounced, while the F-86 is faster and turns better. Keep your maneuvers nose-low, reserve energy and you can indeed follow the MiG in one of his climbs. Don't just yank your stick to get lead every time you can. Wait for an opening and just deny him a shot.

 

I just shot down an excellent MiG-15 twice in a row. It's all about patience.

 

Basically, but I want to add a few things.

 

 

Pre F, the Sabre was more agile at all speeds below 30k. The F model rectified this, giving the 86 equal agility over 30k and continued superiority below it. The F-86 remained faster at all heights.

 

The current Mig climb seems silly, or perhaps it is the ai's insanely low energy bleed. Even for a SFM it seems kinda crazy. The 190D has about a 1000fpm advantage over a 130 grade mustang and the 190 doesnt just streak off like this thing does. It seems like I need over 200mph E advantage just to come even in a zoom climb.

[SgtPappy]

Now if only we can get the thing to dive past Mach 1, while watching the MiG shudder behind at 0.92 trying to follow.

[Kayos]

Now if only we can get the thing to dive past Mach 1, while watching the MiG shudder behind at 0.92 trying to follow.

 

I've tried a couple time but haven't broken the sound barrier yet. That was from 30,000ft ish. Need to go higher I guess.

 

Edit:

Got to Mach 1.15 in a dive from 40,000ft.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Kayos

[Slick]

Its not just the performance of the Mig either its AI behaviour that also needs tweaking. Still fun though ...

 

Really enjoyed watching this vid. Congratz, mate. S~

[Druid_]

Really enjoyed watching this vid. Congratz, mate. S~

Thanks. In a 2 v 1 scenario those migs were desperately trying to lull me into a slow turning fight scenario.

[Leo Showers]

Yeah, I can hit them alright but it's pretty hard. Also they can seemingly airbrake on a dime and pull up and gain a ton of altitude as if they were caught in a still updraught. Pretty frustrating to get behind one only for it to airbrake/engage antigrav drive.

[Sceptre]

I noticed that you don't need to lead the target nearly as much as in the P-51D.... and it's a lot harder to kill stuff with :D And the fact that the Sabre HATES slow speeds!

 

I assume the missiles are no good for manoeuvring targets and should be saved for bombers? They don't like to turn :)

[Davis0079]

the Mig-15 is damn near immune to F-15 cannon burst and missile strikes....F-15 vs 4 Mig-15 results in 8-10 hits on the migs with them only losing 1 plane...she's a bit to strong in my opinion..

 

 

....F-86 breaking the sound barrier regularly????....Im not sure it should be able to do this...it lacks the fundamental design needed to safely push through the pressure build up when reaching the speed of sound...the thinning of the fuselage at the wing roots...matter of fact, it does the opposite.....now I'm not arguing whether it ever did it....I'm simply saying that it did not have the design to do it safely....

 

... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_rule ...

 

 

.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-102_Delta_Dagger ... read the "Major Redesign" part...

Edited July 26, 2014 by Davis0079

[Burner_Tbird2]

According to the Mach meter, the DCS F-86 can currently super cruise. It can even go supersonic in a climb. Beta Alpha