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Take-offs are too rough and feel like taking off in a gravel pit


stray cat
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I think take-offs are too rough, feels like I am taking off on gravel. Also most of the times bouncing is happeing which gets worse and shortly before the end of runway, the back tires of the gears get damaged. I still manage to take off, but with blown tires.

 

Countering that by keeping the nose down to eliminate bouncing only increases the violence of which the gears keep hitting on the runway. Pulling the nose up early does not work either because then I lose forward speed and cant get into the air before the runway is ended.

 

The manual specifically mentions that the gears are made for rough landing so I wonder why they cant absorb or not handle like taking off on rocks, while any other plane, even the 30 ton A10 can smoothly take off.

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I think take-offs are too rough, feels like I am taking off on gravel. Also most of the times bouncing is happeing which gets worse and shortly before the end of runway, the back tires of the gears get damaged. I still manage to take off, but with blown tires....

 

How on earth are you managing that?

 

In any event, the manual specifically mentions raising the aircraft's nose at 250km/h in order to facilitate take-off. Further, don't force the nose down. I am also assuming that you are engaging afterburner on take-off, assuming of course that you are heavy.

 

Keeping in mind that the suspension behaviour is a WIP, here's a quick vid with the aircraft at a GW of 9800kg, approx 95% of max, with take-off at Gelendzhik, one of DCS's shortest runways. Just do as the manual states and you'll be fine, no blown tyres or short runways:

 

z5fa9QvITUI

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Actually I'm glad they will fix it in the future but I think right now it is kinda fun.

 

Builds Character : )

 

As a technique, I wait till about 340-350 km/h before I start lifting the nose to 5 degrees and the oscillations are a little bit less.

 

Hope this helps

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I like the shaky takeoffs and landings.. Makes you softer with controls.

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I'm having real difficulties landing, I try to come in fast and smooth but as soon as the landing gear touches the ground it's like "BOING!" and up in the air again.

 

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I'm having real difficulties landing, I try to come in fast and smooth but as soon as the landing gear touches the ground it's like "BOING!" and up in the air again.

 

I hope they will fix/adjust the landing gear in the next patch. On most landings either it bounces off too hard or one wheel simply breaks causing the plane to tumble down the runway like a metal trashcan.

 

 

While I agree the suspension does need some tweaking If you are bouncing on touchdown or breaking the gear then your vertical velocity is definitely way too high. You need to keep engine power and speed way up to control the velocity. Once you clear the threshold of the runway try and keep level for a moment (you don't need much runway to stop) so you are flying level a few meters off the runway then very gently begin to flare to increase drag while controlling power to descend very gently on to the rear wheels. I found the Mig quite challenging to land compared to most other aircraft in DCS but running with the above seems to provide me with a nice controlled landing every time now.

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I agree with Tetra,

 

You will shake on landing due to the suspension but you need to keep the power in on the flare or reduce it just a bit, you will notice a sink very rapidly and has led me to many a smoking hole in the runway scenarios.

 

I'm still in the process of trying to figure out a good landing attitude picture so I can make consistent landings but I found a good visual reference which may help.

 

What works for me is to put the top of the assembly where the scale needle is at or just below the horizon on the flare and hold it. Once you got the bird on the ground reduce to idle and pop the chute and you'll be fine.

 

Hope this helps

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Thanks for everyone's advice, however considering how easy it is to land with an F86 which has a flimsier set of landing gears and is 10 years older, the Mig21 landings are too rough and difficult. Even if I go down at a smooth angle, if there is the tiniest amount of banking one wheel instantly bends, flipping the plane on its side or the whole aircraft bounces back up into the air, and on the second bounce the gears are completely wrecked.

 

And this is the weird part, the plane very quickly drops to the ground when losing airspeed compared to the sabre ( I assume because less lift on delta wings on low speed) but as soon as the gear touches the ground it bounces back up in the air as if the springs in the gears only purpose in life is to catapult the plane back into the air with so much force that it overcomes the migs afore described desires to quickly lose altitude on low speeds.

 

I just think the Mig21 being more modern and more advanced than the F-86 and only up to 3 tons heavier and with a visibly more massived set of gears should not be this unconsistently harder to land.


Edited by stray cat
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I have attached a landing attempt which I would consider smooth, I can land safely like that for

 

100% A10c

80% F-86

60% ww2 planes

 

However on the mig, as soon as my gear touches the ground, its like a spring loaded catapult.

Take a look at the track file in the attachment if you like.

Wow... hmmm. Let me make a track for you.

 

Best regards,

Tango.

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Ok had a quick look at both, not sure if the track playback just isn't reflecting it but on both tracks I see no attempt to flare the aircraft at all. The first track your approach speed is pretty much right and the 2nd you are a touch too fast, although you could still land at that speed had there been a flare. You get over the threshold of the runway and the vertical velocity would have been ok, but you just continued to fly the plane into the runway which leads to the wheels thumping into the ground and bouncing (or breaking the gear in the first track).

 

As soon as you cross the threshold of the runway bring the Mig level so you are no longer losing altitude and you are flying directly down t he runawy. Once you are level begin to flare slowly and at the same time bleed off some of the engine power (you don't need to lose too much power at all). Once you do that hold it until the rear wheels gently touch the runway, once they are on the runway slowly let the nose down, with the current dynamic it will be mostly impossible to maintain a nose up attitude anyway. Once rear and front wheels are on the runway then cut power and deploy the chute.

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I have attached a landing attempt which I would consider smooth, I can land safely like that for

 

100% A10c

80% F-86

60% ww2 planes

 

However on the mig, as soon as my gear touches the ground, its like a spring loaded catapult.

Take a look at the track file in the attachment if you like.

The thing is, each of those aircraft is differently, they differ in airfoil configuration, landing gear position and type, center of gravity, thrust, etc. Their characteristics differ a lot. You already see that at your own success rates - if you handle each aircraft the same, the results differ vastly.

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I was a bit short on time yesterday. Here are some notes regarding the "sight picture" and one method I use for flying a *visual* approach in an aircraft with poor forward visibility:

 

* Note that I always start from a slightly high position. This forces me to push the nose down to descend, which helps with visually acquiring the runway.

 

* During the initial descent to the runway, I modulate thrust and speed brakes as necessary to keep the speed in check, and I ensure not to start the descent at high speed, otherwise it will be impossible to get the speed off for landing.

 

* My initial aim point is to put the end of the pitot tube just before the runway threshold.

 

* During the descent to the runway, I watch the runway aspect. When it looks "about right" I pull up so the threshold is between the top of the distance marker and the end of the pitot tube. Watching speed and config is crucial at this point, and I configure the aircraft for landing, if I haven't done so already. It's important to allow the runway to slowly "slip towards" the distance marker, otherwise as you descend your aim point will shift and you could land short.

 

* Passing the last 500 - 1000 ft or so (~150 - 300 m altitude) I put the end of the pitot tube on the far end of the runway, to start reducing the sink rate. It's a delta wing, and it needs time to change the flight path otherwise you'll simply dump airspeed. This also shifts the aim point towards the touchdown zone. If you can imagine in your mind a flight path vector, it will be just below the top of the distance marker at this point.

 

* As the threshold crosses under the nose, I raise the nose slightly so the far end of the runway is touching the distance scale. This is the all the flare maneuver requires. You need to watch your sink rate very carefully, because at this point ground effect comes into play, and you can end up floating or even climbing slightly. If the aircraft is level/climbing, just tap the throttle backwards slightly to pull off about 1% of thrust, and just ease off the pressure on the stick to let the nose drop the slightest amount. The aircraft will start to sink at this point, so hold the attitude and wait for touchdown.

 

Above all - just fly the pattern and practice. Delta wing aircraft are actually the easiest to land, but they require good technique as they are unforgiving if you get slow.

 

Something you can try in-sim (NEVER in reality) is to just hold a fixed attitude in descent, and try and determine where the aircraft would hit the ground if you did nothing. This will help you get an idea for where the aircraft is actually flying to. Try it at various air speeds and configurations to see the effect it has on the flight path. :thumbup:

 

Best regards,

Tango.


Edited by Tango
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