Chief Instructor Posted November 1, 2014 Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) I've seen a number of pictures that show the nose cone almost fully retracted - far more so than happens on the DCS MiG21. Does anyone know under what circumstances this may happen on the real aircraft, or, whether the DCS MiG doesn't show it when it should? Cheers, L Edited November 1, 2014 by Chief Instructor CPU: Intel i9 13900KS @5.8GHz | MB: ROG Strix Z790 Gaming-E | GPU: Asus ROG Strix RTX3090 OC | RAM: 32Gb Corsair Dominator DDR5 @6200MHz | Cooling: Custom CPU/GPU cooling loop | PSU: Supernova 850G2 @ 850W | OS: Windows 10 Home Premium 64Bit Storage: 3x Samsung EVO 970 Plus M.2 1Tb + 3x Samsung 850 EVO SSD 250Gb | Input: TM HOTAS WH Saitek Combat Pedals | Output: Samsung 50" OLED TV | VR: HP Reverb G2 | Audio: Realtek + Z906 5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System
Art-J Posted November 1, 2014 Posted November 1, 2014 Don't know the cone movement range of MiG-21, but on Su-22 UM3K it's about 10cm and I doubt "our" Bis, with similar inlet area and flight performance was radically different. Are you sure the pics You've seen were not of F/F-13 versions or U/UM/US ones (which shared the same structure of front fuselage)? They indeed had the cone hidden almost completely in much narrower nose, but these planes were a "different kettle of fish". i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.
Chief Instructor Posted November 2, 2014 Author Posted November 2, 2014 Don't know the cone movement range of MiG-21, but on Su-22 UM3K it's about 10cm and I doubt "our" Bis, with similar inlet area and flight performance was radically different. Are you sure the pics You've seen were not of F/F-13 versions or U/UM/US ones (which shared the same structure of front fuselage)? They indeed had the cone hidden almost completely in much narrower nose, but these planes were a "different kettle of fish". Thanks for your reply Art-J I think you're completely right. I think I may have been looking at a UM variant. I didn't even know such a thing existed as the world of soviet hardware is quite new to me! :-) Cheers, L CPU: Intel i9 13900KS @5.8GHz | MB: ROG Strix Z790 Gaming-E | GPU: Asus ROG Strix RTX3090 OC | RAM: 32Gb Corsair Dominator DDR5 @6200MHz | Cooling: Custom CPU/GPU cooling loop | PSU: Supernova 850G2 @ 850W | OS: Windows 10 Home Premium 64Bit Storage: 3x Samsung EVO 970 Plus M.2 1Tb + 3x Samsung 850 EVO SSD 250Gb | Input: TM HOTAS WH Saitek Combat Pedals | Output: Samsung 50" OLED TV | VR: HP Reverb G2 | Audio: Realtek + Z906 5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System
xxJohnxx Posted November 2, 2014 Posted November 2, 2014 The MiG-21MF, which should not be different to the Bis had a nose-cone movement range of 200mm. Check out my YouTube: xxJohnxx Intel i7 6800k watercooled | ASUS Rampage V Edition 10 | 32 GB RAM | Asus GTX1080 watercooled
bart Posted November 2, 2014 Posted November 2, 2014 I am currently reading "Red Eagles" and in there are photo's of an Indonesian MiG-21 fishbed C/E with the nosecone retracted and you can just about see the point extending out the front of the intake. It mentions this in the paragraph under the photo saying......."note the intake cone fully retracted for sub-sonic flight". This was an earlier version of the MiG-21, so it's possible our Bis has different intake geometry I don't really know. However before I get flamed, criticised or told I'm wrong here......please note I am just telling it how it is in the book and any further comments or opinions should be forwarded to the author.....Steve Davis.....sorry don't have his address!!!! System :- i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12 core, ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming, 64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3200MHz, 24GB Asus ROG Strix Geforce RTX 3090, 1x 500GB Samsung 980 PRO M.2, 1x 2TB Samsung 980 PRO M.2, Corsair 1000W RMx Series Modular 80 Plus Gold PSU, Windows 10. VIRPIL VPC WarBRD Base with HOTAS Warthog Stick and Warthog Throttle, VIRPIL ACE Interceptor Pedals, VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus Base with a Hawk-60 Grip, HP Reverb G2.
Art-J Posted November 2, 2014 Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) Bart, there's absolutely no need to flame or criticize You, because what You westerners called "Fishbed C/E" was indeed an F-13 version, i.e. the the one with narrow nose and a small cone. To cut long story short, 1st generation MiG-21s did not have a radar (only a range finder), so they had a small diameter front intake and a smaller, shorter cone hidden in it. Same for all current and later training variants (U/US/UM). On the other hand, MiGs of 2nd generation and later ones got proper radars of "Sapphire" family. To fit the radar antenna into the cone, the cone had to be made bigger, therefore the whole front fuselage had to be redesigned, the diameter of intake got more than 200 mm higher, and the cone itself got longer, wider and moved forwards. With my a bit skewed, modeller's eye I thought there's no way to make a mistake between narrow-nose 21s and wide-nose 21s, but looks like you fellaz have some learning to do ;) :D. Edited November 2, 2014 by Art-J i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.
Flamin_Squirrel Posted November 2, 2014 Posted November 2, 2014 The nose cone will be fully retracted when you're low/slow, e.g. takeoff/landing/ground ops. You can put the nose cone into manual control to extend it fully, although this may result in your engine quitting!
JorgeIII Posted November 2, 2014 Posted November 2, 2014 Slightly off topic: Do you know of what is made the nosecone? WOOD. Yes, laminated wood to prevent interference with the radar. Quite impressive how its made so symmetrical and how it can handle so much friction and heat. Only the small tip is made of metal: 2 AKA TANGO-117. DCS Modules: ALL. I7 6700k @ 4.9 GHz / 32 GB DDR4 @ 3.2 GHz / 950 Pro m.2 + 4xSSDs / Gigabyte 1080TI 11 GB OC / 48" 4K Curved Samsung TV / TM Warthog Hotas / TM TPR rudder pedals / Track IR. Private pilot and sailplane pilot in RL.
King_Hrothgar Posted November 2, 2014 Posted November 2, 2014 Nothing wrong with plywood. It's been in continuous use for aircraft construction since 1903! :P
Mike Busutil Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Novak has said the "cone movement is only ~20cm (7.8in)". Just a guess but that may only refer to operational in flight movement. Edited January 13, 2015 by Mike Busutil [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Checkout my user files here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/filter/user-is-Mike Busutil/apply/
xxJohnxx Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Novak has said the "cone movement is only ~20cm (7.8in)". Just a guess but that may only refer to operational in flight movement. Nope, that is actually the full possible deflection. It will extend to about 50% during some flight parts. Check out my YouTube: xxJohnxx Intel i7 6800k watercooled | ASUS Rampage V Edition 10 | 32 GB RAM | Asus GTX1080 watercooled
CoBlue Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Slightly off topic: Do you know of what is made the nosecone? WOOD. Yes, laminated wood to prevent interference with the radar. Quite impressive how its made so symmetrical and how it can handle so much friction and heat. Only the small tip is made of metal: Wow! that's very surprising & interesting to hear. Wonder how long the lifespan of the wooden part was & how resilient it was? Must have been cheap to replace :) i7 8700k@4.7, 1080ti, DDR4 32GB, 2x SSD , HD 2TB, W10, ASUS 27", TrackIr5, TMWH, X-56, GProR.
WildBillKelsoe Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 why is it important that nose cone moves? I see Konus OUT on lighting panel. What is the significance? AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
xxJohnxx Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 why is it important that nose cone moves? I see Konus OUT on lighting panel. What is the significance? The nose cone moves to establish optimum airflow to the engine. Also it is there to pre-compress and pre-heat the air before it enters the first stage of the compressor. It will move based on a couple of factors: - Speed: The nose-cone will move it's position depended on speed. If you accelerate from say 300km/h IAS to 1.5 Mach you will see the nose cone extend and retract several times depending on the current speed. This is done that air-intake diameter is optimal and that shock-waves form that allow best airflow. - Angle of Attack: The nose cone will retract and extend depending on the current angle of attack. Again, this is done to allow the engine from stalling / surging. There are also a couple of flaps on the side of the fuselage (just a meter or so behind the nose) that open and close to optimize air-flow and prevent engine surges. Other aircraft (the F-15 for example) have similar systems, where the shape of the intake is changed throughout the flight. Check out my YouTube: xxJohnxx Intel i7 6800k watercooled | ASUS Rampage V Edition 10 | 32 GB RAM | Asus GTX1080 watercooled
WildBillKelsoe Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks John (Y) AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
cichlidfan Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 The SR-71 engine being the most extreme example of this. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
WildBillKelsoe Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks cichlid AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
Mr_sukebe Posted November 23, 2021 Posted November 23, 2021 On 11/2/2014 at 6:55 PM, JorgeIII said: Slightly off topic: Do you know of what is made the nosecone? WOOD. Yes, laminated wood to prevent interference with the radar. Quite impressive how its made so symmetrical and how it can handle so much friction and heat. Only the small tip is made of metal: Have to say that I love how pragmatic the Russians were when designing their aircraft. You just know that the Americans would have spent several million dollars to develop some incredible new material to do the job. 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
WarbossPetross Posted November 23, 2021 Posted November 23, 2021 51 минуту назад, Mr_sukebe сказал: Have to say that I love how pragmatic the Russians were when designing their aircraft. You just know that the Americans would have spent several million dollars to develop some incredible new material to do the job. Well, when competing with a country that can literally outspend you you make do with what you have. Also see alcohol coolant for the radar. By the way, now you know why the Russians relied heavily on GCI (among other reasons) - because one big EW radar is cheaper and better protected than smol radars on all the fighters it can guide. If Russians developed IRST in, say, Vietnam age when fighter radars had similar range with much more weight and bulk, who knows, maybe they would have actually implemented the dogfighter concept that the Fighter Mafia in USA originally intended for their Red Bird fighter.
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